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B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Of course, if we wanted to see a more historic approach, one could go back to probably 1981-1982 and pull the data from that time period. Unfortunately, I do not have that extra amount of time at the moment.

Bah, what would going back that far prove? Unless it supports the argument that the CCHA totally sucks, then yes it's totally relevent and the most important data in existence. :p :D

This never ends well if you get dualing stats going because people find one that makes them look good and beat it to death as the only stat that means anything. Nice work trying to keep this one pretty even keeled.
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Future event at the B1G tournament:

Goldy, Bucky, and a Michigan fan all find a genie lamp at the same moment. Upon contemplation the genie grants each one wish. The Michigan fan being an overbearing elitist snob made his wish first:"I want a wall around the state of Michigan so no one else can get in!" Poof, wish granted. Goldy, also a snob, and not wanting to be outdone wished for the same thing: "I want a wall around the state of Minnesota so no one can steal our recruits!" The genie turned to Bucky and said "Let me guess...." but Bucky held up his hand and said "Easy genie, you mean to tell me there is a wall around the biggest a-holes in hockey? Fill them both with water." POOF!!!!!!!
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Bah, what would going back that far prove?
For one thing, that FS23 is fair-minded and intelligent. For another, that he realizes the WCHA's dominance from 2002 through 2006 was very impressive, but not necessarily typical.

Substantively, you get a fairer picture of conference strength, because the balance of power tends to fluctuate. Using 81-82 as a starting point is reasonable because that's when UM, MSU, ND & MTU shifted to the CCHA, making the the CCHA a realistic competitor with the WCHA and ECAC. Counting titles and title game appearances from 81-82 through 01-02, you get the following results:

National Championship Game Participants:
WCHA - 14
Hockey East -13
CCHA - 9
ECAC - 6

National Champions:
WCHA - 8
CCHA - 7
Hockey East - 4
ECAC - 2

Note that Northern Michigan won a title as a WCHA member. I wouldn't do it this way, but you can argue that championship belongs in the CCHA total since NMU currently belongs to the CCHA. The real point is that in terms of titles, it was virtually a dead heat over the course of two decades.


...This never ends well if you get dualing stats going because people find one that makes them look good and beat it to death as the only stat that means anything.
Just for fun, and maybe to draw your ire, here's a category FS23 didn't include:

Head-To-Head Championship Game Wins:
CCHA - 3
WCHA -1

1984: Bowling Green 5, Minnesota Duluth 4 (4 OT)
1987: North Dakota 5, Michigan State 3
1992: Lake Superior State 5, Wisconsin 3
1996: Michigan 3, Colorado College 2 (OT)

Add in the recent years, and the WCHA picks one Head-To-Head Title:

2011: Minnesota-Duluth 3, Michigan 2 (OT)

Now I'll admit that stat doesn't prove a whole lot. Since the NCAA seems to make a conscious effort to create East/West Finals, it's probably not a huge surprise that we've had only 5 five WCHA/CCHA finals over the course of three decades. But again, the picture we do have is one of relative parity over the long haul, not dominance.

Despite the limitations of the stats, I find them infinitely preferable to uninformed trash talking. So FS23, thank you. Tiggsy, I hope you'll reconsider.

That's all I have time for today. If someone else wants to do some additional counting, I'd welcome that and take an open-minded look at the results.
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

For one thing, that FS23 is fair-minded and intelligent. For another, that he realizes the WCHA's dominance from 2002 through 2006 was very impressive, but not necessarily typical.

Substantively, you get a fairer picture of conference strength, because the balance of power tends to fluctuate. Using 81-82 as a starting point is reasonable because that's when UM, MSU, ND & MTU shifted to the CCHA, making the the CCHA a realistic competitor with the WCHA and ECAC. Counting titles and title game appearances from 81-82 through 01-02, you get the following results:


Now I'll admit that stat doesn't prove a whole lot. Since the NCAA seems to make a conscious effort to create East/West Finals, it's probably not a huge surprise that we've had only 5 five WCHA/CCHA finals over the course of three decades. But again, the picture we do have is one of relative parity over the long haul, not dominance.

Despite the limitations of the stats, I find them infinitely preferable to uninformed trash talking. So FS23, thank you. Tiggsy, I hope you'll reconsider.

That's all I have time for today. If someone else wants to do some additional counting, I'd welcome that and take an open-minded look at the results.

Woosh!

If you don't appreciate uninformed trash talking, why are you even in this thread? Have you read any of it?

If you wanted to draw my ire, you may have succeeded but not how you intended. :p
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Does this happen before or after Michigan wins the B1G Tournament like we all know they will year in and year out?

I have a hard time believing UMich will be doing that when they can't even win the CCHA tournament "year in and year out."
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Woosh!

If you don't appreciate uninformed trash talking, why are you even in this thread? Have you read any of it?
Insightful reply. I actually hadn't! Case of mistaken thread identity. I thought this was the BT thread that started over the summer. Left that one behind because it wasn't very worthwhile. But I thought I'd check in and give it a second chance. Now that I've browsed through this mess, I've got to concede that, by comparison, the summer thread was pretty solid work. :)

If you wanted to draw my ire, you may have succeeded but not how you intended. :p
And you were actually quite helpful, which you almost certainly didn't intend. ;)
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

I have a hard time believing UMich will be doing that when they can't even win the CCHA tournament "year in and year out."

There is one team that is any good other than Michigan in the B1G. And that is minnesota. CCHA has western, ferris state, miami etc.
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Insightful reply. I actually hadn't! Case of mistaken thread identity. I thought this was the BT thread that started over the summer. Left that one behind because it wasn't very worthwhile. But I thought I'd check in and give it a second chance. Now that I've browsed through this mess, I've got to concede that, by comparison, the summer thread was pretty solid work. :)

And you were actually quite helpful, which you almost certainly didn't intend. ;)


Yes the summer thread did have a little more substance, but you can't expect too much in the way of depth in the off season.

I'm all about helping people. Some just need more help then others. :D
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

There is one team that is any good other than Michigan in the B1G. And that is minnesota. CCHA has western, ferris state, miami etc.
You do realize that Western and Ferris were TERRIBLE until about 2 years ago, save for a few select seasons, right?
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

You do realize that Western and Ferris were TERRIBLE until about 2 years ago, save for a few select seasons, right?

Of course I know. I've watched Michigan beat their *** hundreds of times. They're just a blip on the radar ultimately. Right now they are good, but it won't last long.
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Of course I know. I've watched Michigan beat their *** hundreds of times. They're just a blip on the radar ultimately. Right now they are good, but it won't last long.

And yet you fail to recognize Michigan State as a quality team despite the fact that Michigan has failed to win more often than not against them?
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

Yes the summer thread did have a little more substance...
Actually the quality was very uneven, but it had its moments.

... but you can't expect too much in the way of depth in the off season.
Maybe yes, maybe no. Who's posting makes a lot of difference, regardless of the time of year. IMHO threads can go either north or south in any month.

I'm all about helping people. Some just need more help then others. :D
USCHO's own resident Eagle Scout, eh? Well, you got me to laugh at myself with your previous bullseye, so the ability is there. ;)
 
Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

And yet you fail to recognize Michigan State as a quality team despite the fact that Michigan has failed to win more often than not against them?

What exactly makes them a quality team? Making the NCAA Tournament for the first time in years and getting knocked out?

Since the 2008-09 season Michigan is 13-6-1 against them winning 8 of the last 12 games. Not too sure what you're talking about there. :rolleyes:
 
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Re: B1G Hockey: The Countdown Begins

There is one team that is any good other than Michigan in the B1G. And that is minnesota. CCHA has western, ferris state, miami etc.

Ahh it's all coming back to me, the power houses in college hockey.......Miami=0 NCs, WMU=0 NCs, and Ferris State=0 NCs. Real brutal schedule you've got there chief.
 
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