What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

"Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

The Power 5 conferences will get this because of the sabre-rattling being done by the SEC:


If autonomy within the current NCAA structure is not achieved, Slive said the SEC – and, by implication, the remaining Power 5 conferences – would continue to approach the construction of a separate division – often casually referred to as "Division 4."

"If we do not achieve a positive outcome under the existing big tent of Division I, we will need to consider the establishment of a venue with similar conferences and institutions where we can enact the desired changes in the best interests of our student‑athletes," Slive said.
Click to expand...

Allow me to translate the bold portion:
"Give us what we want or we're bolting from the NCAA to form our own new organization and we're taking all the money with us."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-slive-sec-media-days-ncaa-autonomy/12632085/
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

The Power 5 want their own football league without any rules. As long as the NCAA has rules and enforces them, the Power 5 will continue to whine. They're just focused on football, since the revenue they get from it dwarfs any other sport. The only way this can affect hockey is if the P5 schools get into an "arms race" over who can spend the most $$ on their football players (or employees, whatever they want to call them) and raid the other sports' budgets to do so.

Simple as that.
 
Critical Thinker said:
The Power 5 want their own football league without any rules. As long as the NCAA has rules and enforces them, the Power 5 will continue to whine. They're just focused on football, since the revenue they get from it dwarfs any other sport. The only way this can affect hockey is if the P5 schools get into an "arms race" over who can spend the most $$ on their football players (or employees, whatever they want to call them) and raid the other sports' budgets to do so.

Simple as that.
Click to expand...

Or if the BCS schools decide to break away from the NCAA and their hockey teams go too (whether the schools want them to, or the NCAA says get out).

That's seven teams. (B1G + Boston College)

If the BCS teams take along the other FBS schools to act as cannon fodder for homecoming weekend, you're looking at another eight teams. I suppose having 44 teams wouldn't kill college hockey, but it would hurt a lot.
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

Priceless said:
Or if the BCS schools decide to break away from the NCAA and their hockey teams go too (whether the schools want them to, or the NCAA says get out).
Click to expand...

If/when the BCS breaks away, it'll be football only. I don't see this new league giving a s*** about the other sports, since its only purpose would be to get rid of the NCAA's rules limiting what schools can give to football players.
 
Last edited:
Critical Thinker said:
If/when the BCS breaks away, it'll be football only. I don't see this new league giving a s*** about the other sports, since its only purpose would be to get rid of the NCAA's rules limiting what schools can give to football players.
Click to expand...

But why would the NCAA keep the other sports as well?
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

Priceless said:
But why would the NCAA keep the other sports as well?
Click to expand...

I think the idea is that football will become what is essentially a professional consortium of power 5 football programs. The NC$$ without football would start to shrink back to the NCAA, whose mission is to actually manage student athletics. The football program at a school would be more like a business school -- a for-profit organization linked to the host "school" only by convention (and $$$ deals for the stadium, use of the school name "brand," etc.)

It actually sounds like a good solution. Factory football can finally come clean as the non-academic, professional profit center it's been for the last 50 years, the NC$$ and the college presidents no longer have to bathe in hypocrisy every work day, and the players can get paid and avoid the inconvenience of fake attending class. Everybody wins.
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

On one hand, I like the big tent approach to athletics. More teams is always better. But do remember that in the capitalistic society in the US we nearly always operate on equal opportunity. Do we significantly restrict the best players in order to make it an equal playing field?

I'm not saying there is a right answer...but its a tough question.
 
Kepler said:
I think the idea is that football will become what is essentially a professional consortium of power 5 football programs. The NC$$ without football would start to shrink back to the NCAA, whose mission is to actually manage student athletics. The football program at a school would be more like a business school -- a for-profit organization linked to the host "school" only by convention (and $$$ deals for the stadium, use of the school name "brand," etc.)

It actually sounds like a good solution. Factory football can finally come clean as the non-academic, professional profit center it's been for the last 50 years, the NC$$ and the college presidents no longer have to bathe in hypocrisy every work day, and the players can get paid and avoid the inconvenience of fake attending class. Everybody wins.
Click to expand...

So long as they're tied to a university, though, they still have to meet Title IX requirements. Given that most colleges are majority female these days, every dollar spent on football has to be offset somehow. If the women's sports are still bound by NCAA rules, that'll make for some interesting accounting.
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

5mn_Major said:
remember that in the capitalistic society in the US we nearly always operate on equal opportunity
Click to expand...

Nit: You're thinking of a "free market economy," which in practice is as far from capitalism as one can get.

But to your point: the way to solve this from a free market POV is to have a professional path to the majors, just like in baseball. The best players would go straight to the pro league from college, the merely great players would probably spend a year or two at Large Midwestern U and then split. Do the same in hoops and you've removed 98% of the corruption from college athletics.
 
Last edited:
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

unofan said:
So long as they're tied to a university, though, they still have to meet Title IX requirements. Given that most colleges are majority female these days, every dollar spent on football has to be offset somehow. If the women's sports are still bound by NCAA rules, that'll make for some interesting accounting.
Click to expand...

Title IX is interesting in another way: what if players aren't necessarily matriculating, but are just paid employees? Seems to me those no-longer-student-athletes wouldn't count against Title IX caps anymore.
 
Kepler said:
Title IX is interesting in another way: what if players aren't necessarily matriculating, but are just paid employees? Seems to me those no-longer-student-athletes wouldn't count against Title IX caps anymore.
Click to expand...

But it is still an activity or program being provided by an institution receiving federal financial assistance. I suppose you could try to wall it off from the rest of the university entirely, but at that point why even bother tying it to said institution, and at what point do the academics revolt?

even then, though, you'd still have federal and state anti discrimination laws in employment to deal with (why are football players paid but women athletes are not when they perform similar tasks). Not the easiest fight in the world, but I've seen worse arguments win.
 
Last edited:
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

unofan said:
But it is still an activity or program being provided by an institution receiving federal financial assistance. I suppose you could try to wall it off from the rest of the university entirely, but at that point why even bother tying it to said institution, and at what point do the academics revolt?
Click to expand...

I think at that point the academics are happy. Let's say Football is just a profit-generating attachment to the university -- it is self-sufficient and receives no federal funds. The connection to the university is still highly lucrative to both parties: the school gets kickbacks for the use of its name which gives Football an enormous natural customer base. If I'm a professor at the university I am ecstatic, because my research into bullfrog libido is now being underwritten by the same illiterate trogs who used to grunt in the back of my class, but they're not even there anymore. The coaches are happy because they don't have to waste time and energy faking exam results anymore, and the ITs themselves are happy because they're drawing a paycheck and they STILL get all the quality tail they can handle (probably more, since now they can afford to take them out).
 
Last edited:
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

Priceless said:
Or if the BCS schools decide to break away from the NCAA and their hockey teams go too (whether the schools want them to, or the NCAA says get out).

That's seven teams. (B1G + Boston College)

If the BCS teams take along the other FBS schools to act as cannon fodder for homecoming weekend, you're looking at another eight teams. I suppose having 44 teams wouldn't kill college hockey, but it would hurt a lot.
Click to expand...
Add:
Notre Dame
UConn(?)
 
Kepler said:
I think at that point the academics are happy. Let's say Football is just a profit-generating attachment to the university -- it is self-sufficient and receives no federal funds. The connection to the university is still highly lucrative to both parties: the school gets kickbacks for the use of its name which gives Football an enormous natural customer base. If I'm a professor at the university I am ecstatic, because my research into bullfrog libido is now being underwritten by the same illiterate trogs who used to grunt in the back of my class, but they're not even there anymore.
Click to expand...

It's a moot argument, since congress apparently amended title ix in 1988 in response to court cases to define "program or activity" to include "all operations of... a college, university, or other post secondary institution," among other things. So even if these are employees, it'd still be covered.
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

Priceless said:
If the BCS teams take along the other FBS schools to act as cannon fodder for homecoming weekend, you're looking at another eight teams. I suppose having 44 teams wouldn't kill college hockey, but it would hurt a lot.
Click to expand...

At least then the ECAC might win another... oh, THAT'S right!
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

joecct said:
Add:
Notre Dame
UConn(?)
Click to expand...

BCS: B1G, BC

Rest of FBS: Bowling Green, Miami, Western Mich, UMASS Amherst, Air Force, UCONN, Notre Dame. 7 total.

I don't think any hockey teams are leaving the NCAA, but these are the ones that would/could as Priceless suggested.
 
Re: "Autonomy" - Will this affect NCAA Hockey?

Kepler said:
Let's say Football is just a profit-generating attachment to the university -- it is self-sufficient and receives no federal funds.
Click to expand...

If "Football" is a profit-generating wing of the busin, er..., I mean university, it's no longer attached to the educational mission of the university. As such, would donations toward the football program continue to be tax deductible? I'm thinking no. And that would hurt because most football programs are profitable because of donations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top