Attendance at Pittsburgh

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Y'all picked your seats. Be smart next time and grab first row center ice balcony.
Or pick the corners behind the invited schools

Your choice

Must have been Brown fans.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Responses so far have been overlooking something too.

This was the "Q" section. They had tickets in there available for students. In fact all four schools did.

Also, of these sections, 600 in aggregate were returned as unmovable.

When bu was in DC, not only did we use the entire corner sections - but those were for donors only. We also obtained sections for "students" in the balcony. There were two sections, but guessing that the second one was poachers coming to be together and peeps got shoved/relocated around the upper bowl to get out of the way of those standing all game kids.

Certainly something to consider when you pick your seats going forward. If parity is going to introduce smaller traveling fans you will see large student sections down low. I was across from Yale an they were a high % of SRO students as well. One row was filled with standees too. Well overcapacity.

Since all prices are the same, many assume to take lower bowl as perceived value? Since in general they cost more than upper bowl?
Personally I think row 1 balcony are the best seats for hockey- so y'all can keep grabbing the corners

 

[Patman]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

There is no such thing as a student section at these, it's student rows.

I agree that "the president of" needs to blank filled in.

Edit: and of course some may assume that the school buyers have their exact choice of row and section

 

[wolverineTrumpet]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

I'm a stander. One of the things I like about how empty regionals often are, is that I can find a place to stand without disturbing other fans.
Sitting at hockey games feels wrong to me, but I understand when I'm not in a student section, I need to sit and be courteous of others. Unfortunately, I believe our society as a whole is turning into even more of a "me first" attitude and rarely does one think how their actions affect others.

Clearly organizers every year think out where to put the bands. They are in the rafters where they can stand with sousaphones and not obstruct views. Does that need to be done for student sections?

I don't think it can be, since the school allotments are not specifically for students. Some schools you must be a donor or season ticket holder to buy those tickets. I can say that for the St. Paul Frozen Four my friends and I asked the UM ticket office to put us with the students (all 40 or so students we had that made the trip). They gave us the back rows of our section so we could stand, although I think there were eventually complaints and we were asked to sit (I don't remember).

I'm surprised the ushers were told to let them stand, and worse, threaten to escort someone complaining about it from the arena. While I think an excited, packed, and standing student section adds to the environment, it shouldn't come at the expense of other fans. And I think being able to sit and watch the game you bought a ticket to is a reasonable expectation. Odd that in my section at least, the usher was holding people until a stoppage in play, so as to not obstruct views, and across the arena they were letting people stand the whole game.

I'd say the solution is to put the students up by the bands, or in the last few rows of the lower bowl, but without there being a designated number of student tickets, that's hard to do. If one looks at this year's bouncyball final four, they found a place right behind the baskets for the students to stand, be loud, get on tv, and still not obstruct views of others. Granted, having it in the Georgia Dome gave organizers plenty of room and options to work with.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Being physically unable to stand for an entire game isn't the correct standard. Nor is being "older" some sort of disability. Most people of most ages could stand for a full game if they absolutely had to. The point is they shouldn't have to; they've paid for seating, not standing room.

A $200 ticket package doesn't entitle one to a luxury suite. But it should be a sufficient investment to yield an unobstructed view of the games in reasonable comfort.

I'm a stander. One of the things I like about how empty regionals often are, is that I can find a place to stand without disturbing other fans.
Sitting at hockey games feels wrong to me, but I understand when I'm not in a student section, I need to sit and be courteous of others. Unfortunately, I believe our society as a whole is turning into even more of a "me first" attitude and rarely does one think how their actions affect others.

I'm a stander too. I haven't sat in my seat in Hamden in 5 years.

The Q situation, as I understand it, was that the students were given the first several rows of seats, and the costs were subsidized by the school ($50 all-session, plus 2 free bus rides). Season ticket holders were able to be the first to buy from the school allotment (I was the second customer on the phone). The majority of the complaints were from STH's who rightfully felt they shouldn't need to stand when they had a $200 seat available to them. On Thursday, the kids were told to seat or leave. On Saturday, the ushers made one request of them to sit that fell on deaf ears. In fact, A couple of "adults" took the students side and argued that there was nothing in the "fine print" that said they had to sit (heard this argument with my own ears).

The school provided buses (free) on both Thursday and Saturday for students and fans. Saturday, there we several (10-50 depending on who you listen to) fans that were not able to get on the bus in Hamden as they were taking students first. It's clear in my mind that the school wanted the kids to have the advantage. As someone who has complained in the past about student attendance at games, I had no problem with this at all. But I did understand the complaints of the STH's as well. I think in the end everyone enjoyed the game (well, to a certain extent ).

To me, it was vital that the students be able to show their support, and that the team was able to see that first hand. Others may not share my view and I'm ok with that too.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Since all prices are the same, many assume to take lower bowl as perceived value? Since in general they cost more than upper bowl?

You've got a point, but it's about more than "beating the market" IMHO. Generally speaking, in the lower bowl you feel more closely connected to the event. The upper bowl can be more of a detached experience.

Further, traditional balconies were usually much closer to the action than many of today's upper bowls. It varies from one building to the next, but today's upper bowls are actually a third or even a fourth level, depending on how one accounts for club seating and luxury boxes.

I will say this: The low rows upstairs at Consol appeared to be a relatively good location in comparison to most other NHL buildings.

Personally I think row 1 balcony are the best seats for hockey- so y'all can keep grabbing the corners

Row 1; aye, there's the rub. No question Row 1 is great. But the first couple of rows along the sides weren't available in the Pittsburgh lottery. They were held back to be sold as premium seating. And at least at the time of the lottery, the premuim prices were out of this world. In order to get Row 1 at the standard price, you had to accept -- wait for it -- the corners. My priority level was one level below the top, and I was hoping to snag one of those Row 1 Center Ice seats. The fact they weren't included was the biggest disappointment of this year's lottery for me.

IIRC, Row 3 upper level was on the market. No doubt that would have been a good vantage point. But again, you lose atmosphere very quickly as you move up the rows in the upper level sides. Taking everything into account, I chose to stay downstairs.

FWIW.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

The standing issue is a tough one....

From what I could see, Yale did the seats where the standing students were up top (and not blocking anyone) whereas the Q side had it backwards.

But you can see that the players do somewhat play off of that- the Yale goals at that end- the players clearly went to their section- so do you want the students on ice level with the players or up high?

The Big BB finals- they put students below the game at either end- this is kind of odd- since all they can do is just make noise- and watch on the big screens. But it appears that they do add to the atmosphere of the game.

So, I think the better compromise is how Yale appeared to do it- put their student secion up on top, so the standing isn't an issue nor is the over crowding. that's a lot better than putting them up with the band. (FWIW, I don't like the bands up where they are- you can't hear them unless they are on speaker, but that's a different subject) Most arenas have blocking so that if you are on the concourse, you can't look in, and the mid level boxes are high enough not to be interfered with.

I've not had to stand for a hockey game in close to 20 years. But I think it's great that students and those pretending to be students... ( ) ... stand and cheer the entire game. So if we can get the schools to put them in the higher spots- they are not too bad. And even with the corners that they are generally given- the view of the seats right next to them doesn't appear to be blocked a whole lot, since they are at an angle.

Tough, but seemingly important.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

With the number of empty seats they should have been accommodating and moved the people unhappy with their seats to other sections. Whoever the usher was should be canned as should his boss.

The city did well for itself considering its poor public transportation infrastructure and lack of taxis. The arena was probably the second-best I've been to, behind Xcel. Seats were great in 201. I think we should give the students the corporate seats since they're empty anyway.

 

[shiftyjedi]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Having lived here now for nearly 10 months, I agree. The freeway system in and around downtown Pittsburgh is absurd.

5-way stops where 3 of the directions are ramps and very little signage to indicate which off-shoot is the one you want. Exit ramps that split 3-times heading in various directions, again with little to no signage. Even with GPS it can be difficult to get every turn correct.

I don't really get why its such a cluster. But it is.

You know, in Pittsburgh, it's Our Way or the Highway... literally.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

You know, in Pittsburgh, it's Our Way or the Highway... literally.

Hilarious, and so true. Let your mind wander for just a moment and wind up in the wrong lane? You're crossing a river and headed out of town.

 

[matt]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

The standing issue is a tough one....

From what I could see, Yale did the seats where the standing students were up top (and not blocking anyone) whereas the Q side had it backwards.

But you can see that the players do somewhat play off of that- the Yale goals at that end- the players clearly went to their section- so do you want the students on ice level with the players or up high?

The Big BB finals- they put students below the game at either end- this is kind of odd- since all they can do is just make noise- and watch on the big screens. But it appears that they do add to the atmosphere of the game.

So, I think the better compromise is how Yale appeared to do it- put their student secion up on top, so the standing isn't an issue nor is the over crowding. that's a lot better than putting them up with the band. (FWIW, I don't like the bands up where they are- you can't hear them unless they are on speaker, but that's a different subject) Most arenas have blocking so that if you are on the concourse, you can't look in, and the mid level boxes are high enough not to be interfered with.

I've not had to stand for a hockey game in close to 20 years. But I think it's great that students and those pretending to be students... ( ) ... stand and cheer the entire game. So if we can get the schools to put them in the higher spots- they are not too bad. And even with the corners that they are generally given- the view of the seats right next to them doesn't appear to be blocked a whole lot, since they are at an angle.

Tough, but seemingly important.

That students were up top for Yale was, IMHO, mostly luck: The students got their tickets only after the donors and season ticket holders, and they clearly went bottom to top. So students were at the top. Made for better TV, as that's where the cameras could focus without the plexiglass in the way, and made it easier for those who wanted to sit. So it worked out.

And yes, the team was very clearly playing to its section in the stands after goals, etc. Putting the students up top would be a major drag to the energy in the building, and to the team. Nobody seriously wants that.

 

[Split-N]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

...Clearly organizers every year think out where to put the bands. They are in the rafters where they can stand with sousaphones and not obstruct views. Does that need to be done for student sections?...

I think you're on to something here. I was at the 2009 Grand Rapids regionals as well as the FF in WashDC. It appeared to me that all of the bands in both locations had been limited in terms of the number of musicians they brought and that even the downsized bands (plus cheerleaders and mascots) had been banished to the highest levels of both arenas, where they just didn't have the effect they usually have.

Now I am not and never have been a musician in any sense of the word, and it's been a long, long time since I've been a student, but I've always thought that one of the things that distinguished college from pro sports is the ability of most college bands to stir up a crowd, the antics of the mascots, and student sections being---well, student sections. That's not to say that pro crowds aren't also enthusiastic. Just not in the same way. Now I'm not so naïve as to not understand that corporate sponsorships pay a fair amount of the bills and that certain courtesies need to be extended to those who sign the checks. But the NCAA ought to be able to do a much better job than it does right now of bringing across the essence of college sports, which is students, whether they're in the band, serve as mascots/cheerleaders, or just sitting/standing/jumping up-and-down, or whatever they do in the student rows/sections. If you don't like students being students, then go somewhere else.

My personal observation is that , aside from the actual competition, NCAA national championships (hoops as well as hockey) have increasingly become less about students and the other things that make college sports so unique and more about mass market production values and network executives trying to keep sponsors happy.

By contrast, I was also at the 1882 FF, in Providence, and vividly remember a huge Wisconsin Band and mascots/cheerleaders from all of the schools being on the ice during intermissions. It made for a kind of electric atmosphere that, IMO, we desperately need to get back to.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

By contrast, I was also at the 1882 FF, in Providence, and vividly remember a huge Wisconsin Band and mascots/cheerleaders from all of the schools being on the ice during intermissions. It made for a kind of electric atmosphere that, IMO, we desperately need to get back to.

Were there even 4 teams with sanctioned hockey back in 1882? Pretty impressive you can remember back that far.

 

[northeastern]

..I was also at the 1882 FF, in Providence, ..

Yoda would be impressed.. so would McKayla..
;-)

 

[King]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

With the number of empty seats they should have been accommodating and moved the people unhappy with their seats to other sections. Whoever the usher was should be canned as should his boss.

The city did well for itself considering its poor public transportation infrastructure and lack of taxis. The arena was probably the second-best I've been to, behind Xcel. Seats were great in 201. I think we should give the students the corporate seats since they're empty anyway.

Re: public transportation

Agreed on taxis. In my experience, it is the worst city in the US for cabs: there just aren't enough of them, and rates are exorbitant. Downtown to South Side and South Side to my Oaktown hotel were each around $15-17 (inc tip). Per Google Maps, both routes are ~2 miles. (And there is such a dearth of cabs that I actually hailed the same one for both of those trips lol.)

For day trips, though, I've found the bus quite reliable. Downloaded the Tiramisu app and it worked great--not surprising, given that it was developed by Carnegie Mellon. The 28X/airport flyer bus is a great deal at $3.75 from PIT to downtown/Oaktown, and buses run from Oaktown to downtown every few minutes. Also took the bus from Oaktown to a Regent Square bar for $2.50; same 3.5 mile trip back by cab was $24.

All in all, I had a good time in PGH, as expected. They have two top notch facilities in Consol and PNC (Heinz is meh, but all football stadiums are basically meh). Decent bar scene, enough sightseeing for a 3-4 day trip, and people are nice--a couple ppl actually said "Thank you for coming to PGH" (I've read here that others had similar experiences). Good job, PGH, RMU, and everyone else involved (save for the ********* who gave Greg Ambrose $50).

 

[Steve_MN]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

I heard about this Church bar, but never made it. Heard it was pretty sweet.

Sweet only begins to describe it.

You sat next to a student section, a student section from a school that has never been to the final before, and, lo and behold, they did what they do at hockey games!
What, exactly, is the problem?

This.


As to attendance, the biggest problem is that Pittsburgh put their "Club" seats between the blue lines on the lower levels (a leftover from refit/remodeling at the old Igloo as I understand it), and with so many of those going to sponsors, there wasn't any way for regular fans to get those tickets. And being the club section, nobody could move over/down to fill in. Hopefully the NCAA takes this into account for future events.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

That students were up top for Yale was, IMHO, mostly luck: The students got their tickets only after the donors and season ticket holders, and they clearly went bottom to top. So students were at the top. Made for better TV, as that's where the cameras could focus without the plexiglass in the way, and made it easier for those who wanted to sit. So it worked out.

And yes, the team was very clearly playing to its section in the stands after goals, etc. Putting the students up top would be a major drag to the energy in the building, and to the team. Nobody seriously wants that.

No, this.

Matt's second effort is much better. While simple slogans are appealing, this is a situation with nuances. The objective should be to make things work out as well as they can for everyone, not just throw up one's arms when problems arise. The NCAA and the Host Arenas can and should do a little better job of seat assignments.

Yes, in this particular case, the cooperation of the participating schools is needed. Whether it was skill or luck, Yale appeared to get it right -- students in the higher rows of the lower bowl, up to the top row of their sections. Regardless of how the official allotments are utilized, all participating schools should be advised of the issue. To the maximum extent possible, seat assignments should be made skillfully, as opposed to just counting on things to work out by sheer luck.

I do agree with matt, alfablue and others that the students need to be in the lower bowl for the energy they bring. I'd also bring the bands downstairs for the same reason. Again, the solution seems to be for the standees to be given the top rows of lower bowl sections. And perhaps the participating school allotments should move back into the corners, the way it was Pre-St. Louis. That would further reduce the risk that those standing will block the view of others.

 

[SCSU BlackandRed]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

Sweet only begins to describe it.


Bing bing bing on the Church bar. Hit it years back when I went to the MLB All-star game there. MLB had one of their events there. Even besides that, place was VERY VERY cool.

 

[Pucknut]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

I know I am late getting my comments in but I have to relate my experience at the Consol Energy Center. Our group had tickets in Section 105 directly to the left of the Quinnipiac section. When Thursday's semi between QU and St. Cloud started, the Quinnipiac students decided that they were going to stand, just like I am sure they do (and just about every other school does) at their own rink. By the end of the first period they had gotten the message that standing was not going to fly, that they had to sit out of courtesy for the other fans behind and to the left of them.

Come the final on Saturday, the students did the exact same thing. I fully expected that the ushers would once again come down, remind them of their obligations to those around them and sit. Instead, five or so minutes went by and they were still standing. So I and another gentleman went up to the top of the section and asked an usher to take care of the problem. The response we got was, "sit down or we'll escort you from the arena." Flabbergasted, I turned around and sat down, hoping against hope that the kids would finally sit. When they didn't I went back up to the top, talked to the same usher who gave me the same ultimatum. I asked to speak to his boss, who as it turned out (or at least I was told he was) the president of the Penguins.

So I start talking to the Prez, telling him how I have been to every FF since 1992, (30 in all) and had never experienced a situation like this. I told him that I had paid $100 for the ticket to the final and expected to be able to sit in my seat. His response? "This game if for the college kids, not you." He pulls out his wallet, hands me $50 and walks away. I had no idea what to say (a shocking development for those who know me), and went back to my seat. Ultimately we were finally able to go to customer service and have them move our seats to behind the net.

I have to wonder if anybody else has had this experience, either in Pittsburgh or at another FF. I am not babe in the woods when it comes to this stuff. I have been attending UNH games for 40 years, have been in dozens of college rinks and know that kids stand. But I have also been to plenty of tournament games - Beanpot, ECAC, HE, NCAA - and have never encountered this type of problem. My suggestion to the NCAA is to stick the student sections in the end zones where, if they stand, they won't be ruining the view of those who sit on either side of them. I know that next year I will try to find out where the student sections will be before I order tickets.

BTW, I had a pretty good time in Pittsburgh, better than I had anticipated. Only problem for me was that the bar we went to before the final - the Fifth St. Pub - was closed after the game. Quite a business model, 18,000 plus thirsty fans ready to celebrate or drown their sorrows right down the street on a Saturday night and you decide to close? What gives?

When we arrived at the Consol Center for the final game where we found an usher in the aisle between Sec. 105-104 and I mentioned to him that if the students in 104 stood during play would he asked them to sit. His reply was, “I’ll try.” Sure enough once the game began they continue to stand and the ushers were nowhere in sight as they were on Thursday when they told the students to sit, and they complied, different ushers buy the way.
I went up to the ushers and asked them to seat the fans and they said they wouldn’t and after being threatened by one to have me ejected from the building because I raised my voice, I asked to see his supervisor. The supervisor arrived after a fashion and I told him the problem and he contacted someone via radio who told him the students “had a right to stand.” I asked about my rights to view the game from my seat and would this happen during a Pens game; he said he couldn’t help me. GREAT ANSWER, HUH? About that time a guy (Greg?) came by us and said a guy over there was giving out $50 I turned to the supervisor and told them I didn’t want money, all I wanted was the opportunity to watch the game. I asked that my seats be changed and followed him to fan services where we were told nothing was available and I told them there plenty of empty seats across the ice. One of the service gals called downstairs and talked with someone who said they would print out new tickets that took nearly 7 or 8 minutes. We were given seats on the end of the arena near the top row after missing the first 10-minutes of the game and had to watch the action on the overhead when the puck went into the far end.
We have been attending Frozen Four games since the late 80’s even before they were called the “Frozen Four” and only once experienced fans standing but it was near the end of the game with about 3-minutes left with one team pulling their goalie. We have been to many NHL rinks over the years and never had to deal with this problem and in all likelihood never will. Once we were at the Rexall Center in Edmonton there was an announcement before the game that fans stay in their seats and sit back while the puck is in play which they did.
Maybe the Consol Center employees should do O.J.T. at the Rexall Center!!!
I can’t help wondering if on their bus ride back did these same students stand during their return to Hampden, CT.

 

[Split-N]

Re: Attendance at Pittsburgh

...."This game if for the college kids, not you."....

If that statement was indeed made by the President of the Pens, then I have a whole new respect for that franchise. College kids stand and jump up and down and do other antics at college hockey games. That's part of what separates it from the pro game. If all of the complainers have gone to as many college games and FFs as they claim, they should know this.

So stop whining and get over yourselves. I'm glad the kids had fun at your expense.