Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

[5hole]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Which ever team applies, they should only be accepted if they support the idea of increasing scholies. We do not need another team sitting at the table that tips the balance back to cost containment over on-ice and overall program improvement.

As for RIT, they don't lose any player that they recruit and want because of the scholie issue ... maybe some other factor comes into play or maybe they just get out-recruited but if they want a player, they will find a way to handle the financial issue despite no "athletic" scholies.
(Yeah, I will probably get neg repped for this like I did last time I said this ... but it is true. So when you neg rep me, please have the cajones to leave your board name this time. )

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Hell, is the AHA really in a position right now that that they would turn down all three of those schools should they elect to give NCAA D1 hockey a go?

 

[komey1]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

All schools without BCS football will eventually start losing the arms races. Think Yankees / Dodgers / Angels / Red Sox vs. rest of MLB. Sure the other guys win once in a while, but most are SOL on Opening Day.

The list of BCS schools not in the B10 is pretty small, and most of them already have a money and exposure advantage. BC is the only one that won a championship of that group. Now if another BCS conference forms a hockey confernece I think then there would be more of a concern at this time.

 

[komey1]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Hell, is the AHA really in a position right now that that they would turn down all three of those schools should they elect to give NCAA D1 hockey a go?

Unless some of the teams that voted no on the scholarship increase decide to fold DI hockey then I believe they are. I don't think they want a 14 team confernece. Now if they were to btake the 14 teams and turn it into 2 7 team conferences that get each get an autobid, then it gets REAL interesting.

 

[komey1]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

I'm seeing multiple factions of RIT fans on this board (which is perfectly understandable given the impressive size of their base.)

One mindset is of concern that increased financial commitment of AHA risks RIT falling behind in competitiveness.

The other is a "hold your nose" and tolerate the lack of financial committment of AHA (or even better, join then tell other members they should leave) until RIT gets the red carpet rolled out for their invite to nWCHA/HEA/ECAC.

I don't know very many RIT fans saying that other teams should "get out". However, some things that I have heard are that RIT washeld to a higher standard in some areas to join than some of the current members.

Remember that RIT explored the option of applying for the ECAC opening that Quinnipiac got. One of the biggest reasons they did not apply was that they did not feel at the time they would be competive in that conference where they would in Atlantic Hockey. Considering RIT's success prior to last year, obviously they were right - so much that some fans think they would be competitive in the ECAC (I think they would take some lumps early on but would be ok). I think it's a matter of how you see your chances of the ultimate goal of making the NCAA tournament and succeeding there.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Hell, is the AHA really in a position right now that that they would turn down all three of those schools should they elect to give NCAA D1 hockey a go?

Actually, yeah, they kinda are. There's no particular need for a leaguewide symmetry (scheduling is already unbalanced, and won't have a chance to be re-balanced until either Air Force is no longer a member, or there's a team which can be a true travel partner FOR Air Force), there's no additions the league can realistically make that will improve their perception or out-of-league strength, and there is a perceived need to keep some of the more committed schools happy.

Furthermore, there is virtually no worry of any long-term membership changes. No one appears likely to drop hockey, there aren't any vacancies in higher-level East Coast leagues, and the much spoken about rumor of the AHA's "top-tier" breaking off into a full-scholarship "Great Lakes League" is IMO dead in the water unless there's at least 8 teams who would be committed (and also, IMO, no geographic outliers amongst those 8).

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

The "breakout" of the full scholarship programs as a standalone entity was tried and failed. It was called CHA.

 

[4four4]

The "breakout" of the full scholarship programs as a standalone entity was tried and failed. It was called CHA.

It failed because of the travel.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

It failed because of the travel.

And the overall lack of teams. Hell, for a while it was what, Wayne State and Findlay that was the two closest CHA schools out there. Not enough teams, and too much travel between the teams that they did have, all the while pretty much going by other schools that would have been a much shorter road trip to.

 

[LordofBrewtown]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Unless some of the teams that voted no on the scholarship increase decide to fold DI hockey then I believe they are. I don't think they want a 14 team confernece. Now if they were to btake the 14 teams and turn it into 2 7 team conferences that get each get an autobid, then it gets REAL interesting.

I think that could really be the smart way to go. Just sign a scheduling alliance - maybe something similar to what the WCHA & Hockey East used to have - between the two conferences so that home games & scheduling are not a problem. That would allow you to separate the scholarship schools from the non's, keep your scheduling/cost containment mostly intact, and get an extra auto-bid. Have something in the scheduling agreement stating that if one or two schools drop hockey, putting one of the conferences under 6 teams, the other teams are allowed back into the other/the two conferences merge again.

I'm somewhat surprised the ECAC hasn't done something like this splitting the Ivy & non-ivies to get a 2nd auto-bid.

 

[schiegs]

It failed because of the travel.

Travel time or travel costs? The time would be a valid argument, but travel costs would have been a fraction of the costs of sixteen (now eighteen) scholarships.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Travel time or travel costs? The time would be a valid argument, but travel costs would have been a fraction of the costs of sixteen (now eighteen) scholarships.

Not when you're busing to Bemidji one weekend, Colorado Springs the weekend after that, and then Huntsville right after you get a home stand.

Say for Wayne State, Bemidji was 14 hours via bus. Colorado Springs is could be done in just under 20 hours, and Huntsville is just over 10 for the Warriors. Now, I might be wrong on this, but I believe federal law says that if you're employed with driving, such as driving a bus, you can't drive more than 12 hours. Anything after that, you're suppose to take a break. So, pretty much for all of those trips, a school would have to be paying for 2 bus drivers to get everybody from Detroit to their game. Technically they might not need it for the Huntsville run, if I'm right about the 12 hour limit, but its pretty easy to hit a traffic backup or construction and then you would have a bus driver who's over the limit. Company policy might even state that they would want to have that second driver there on a run that far anyways. Either way, its still pretty expensive to bus a team that far around the country on a regular basis.

 

[schiegs]

Not when you're busing to Bemidji one weekend, Colorado Springs the weekend after that, and then Huntsville right after you get a home stand.

Say for Wayne State, Bemidji was 14 hours via bus. Colorado Springs is could be done in just under 20 hours, and Huntsville is just over 10 for the Warriors. Now, I might be wrong on this, but I believe federal law says that if you're employed with driving, such as driving a bus, you can't drive more than 12 hours. Anything after that, you're suppose to take a break. So, pretty much for all of those trips, a school would have to be paying for 2 bus drivers to get everybody from Detroit to their game. Technically they might not need it for the Huntsville run, if I'm right about the 12 hour limit, but its pretty easy to hit a traffic backup or construction and then you would have a bus driver who's over the limit. Company policy might even state that they would want to have that second driver there on a run that far anyways. Either way, its still pretty expensive to bus a team that far around the country on a regular basis.

While I'm too tired to attempt all that math, I would venture to guess it is substantially less than the $500,000 that 18 scholarships cost annually at most of those institutions.

 

[UMainah]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Not when you're busing to Bemidji one weekend, Colorado Springs the weekend after that, and then Huntsville right after you get a home stand.

Say for Wayne State, Bemidji was 14 hours via bus. Colorado Springs is could be done in just under 20 hours, and Huntsville is just over 10 for the Warriors. Now, I might be wrong on this, but I believe federal law says that if you're employed with driving, such as driving a bus, you can't drive more than 12 hours. Anything after that, you're suppose to take a break. So, pretty much for all of those trips, a school would have to be paying for 2 bus drivers to get everybody from Detroit to their game. Technically they might not need it for the Huntsville run, if I'm right about the 12 hour limit, but its pretty easy to hit a traffic backup or construction and then you would have a bus driver who's over the limit. Company policy might even state that they would want to have that second driver there on a run that far anyways. Either way, its still pretty expensive to bus a team that far around the country on a regular basis.

I think federal regulations say that you are limited to 14 hours total and you can't drive for longer than 8 hours without a 30min rest break. Also break time is included in the 14 hours, not in addition to it. I'm not sure if there are different limits for people carrying passengers though.

 

[lmg6841]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

As someone who vows that better PWR is what RIT (and the AHA) should strive for, I wouldn't mind the bottom feeder teams dropping off. That being said, depending on the cut off, some may argue that RIT is near 'relegation'.

I don't know very many RIT fans saying that other teams should "get out". However, some things that I have heard are that RIT washeld to a higher standard in some areas to join than some of the current members.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

I think we can agree that some of the smaller AHA schools could survive as their own 6-8 team conference easier than the CHA could, but I still would not want to see that happen. I'd rather see the AHA blow up to a 14-16 school behemoth first and give these teams the stability they need to stick around long enough to grow their fanbase naturally.

 

[lmg6841]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

This may not be a popular opinion, but having traveled to RIT away games and reading the comments from rival AHA schools, I'm willing to bet most of the AHA schools have no interest in growing hockey. Bentley had a good run this year, and I remember reading users posting that no one even heard about their post season on campus. Look at Canisius. They had a conference finals game an hour away from home and couldn't get a single section of Blue Cross Arena filled.

I think we can agree that some of the smaller AHA schools could survive as their own 6-8 team conference easier than the CHA could, but I still would not want to see that happen. I'd rather see the AHA blow up to a 14-16 school behemoth first and give these teams the stability they need to stick around long enough to grow their fanbase naturally.

 

[ADK11]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

Does anyone know the breakdown of schools in AHA that give the current full allotment of sholarships and those that don't? I'm assuming you can look at the standings most of years and figure this out, but am curious. I know that Army and USAFA are special cases and that RIT is like Union. Wondering how the increase in schollies really effects things if some (most?) of the schools won't go up to the full number.

 

[hockeyjunkie10]

Does anyone know the breakdown of schools in AHA that give the current full allotment of sholarships and those that don't? I'm assuming you can look at the standings most of years and figure this out, but am curious. I know that Army and USAFA are special cases and that RIT is like Union. Wondering how the increase in schollies really effects things if some (most?) of the schools won't go up to the full number.

You have it pretty much down. The service academies are obviously tuition free. RIT has their financial aid setup that has been discussed. Departing member UConn had not offered scholarships until this year but all of their players live off campus and end up paying in-state tuition. The rest of the schools are scholarship schools with AIC never using the league maximum allotment. SHU has also not awarded 12 scholarships in recent years, but they appear to have returned to the league maximum for 2013-2014.

Prior to RMU & NU joining the conference, the vote was always deadlocked as RIT, AFA, Army, UConn, and AIC would always vote the way that best served them. UConn leaving and NU ad RMU joining pretty much sealed the fate of this scholarship increase though the economy probably didn't help.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Adds to Scholarship Limit, Mulls Expansion

My two cents. URI would have the best potential for Atlantic Hockey right now. There size and brand name do bring something to table. Now whether or not that translates to on ice success is another thing. The biggest disadvantage they have is probably budget issues the state of Rhode Island is facing. Also all the recent drama surrounding URI football and the loss of scholarships certainly did not help things. Maybe they will start with no scholarships and then gradually add more scholarships to the program as they get on better financial footing.