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AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

I thought it was particularly interesting that the WCHA wants to ADD teams. This would allow them to have two divisions which would lessen travel. That makes sense to me.
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

DD get your act together, this topic has been discussed non stop for quite a while. Where have you been.
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

davyd83 said:
If it hasn't been bad for college hockey, why is attendance down at at least half the schools in the B10, NCHC and WCHA? Why is conference attendance dropped so much? Why do the so called "Big Time" programs refuse to visit the smaller schools without at least a 2 for 1 deal?
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Because the teams are struggling?

For whatever reason, fans are fair weather- they want to see a team winning. Michigan may be having a good year, but this NCAA birth is the first in 3 seasons. Wisconsin is down for some reason. MSU is down for some reason. OSU is not a hockey school. PSU is doing incredibly well, with attendance over capacity this year. Had this taken place in the old conferences, the same thing would be happening.

Besides, the entire B1G is in the top 11 overall for attendance.

Not going to speak for the other conferences. If you want to take it out on the B1G for wanting to play as a conference just like they do in every other sport, that's your energy. But the WCHA and CCHA still had a great conference. Unless you think the B1G schools were that important. Which I thought that Northern fans always tried to talk down, and thought the CCHA always favored MSU unfairly...
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

IrishHockeyFan said:
A misconception here needs to be corrected. No where will you find anything that says Notre Dame wanted to go anywhere when all of this was happening. They in fact were the last team to land. It was only when the NCHC was being formed and Miami (and later Western Michigan) indicated they would leave the CCHA -- leaving it in an untenable position whether or not Notre Dame was a part of it -- that Notre Dame began to consider finding a new league was in its best interest. Jeff Jackson repeatedly stated that his first choice was that the CCHA remain a viable league, something that was probably possible with the 8 teams that remained. When the NCHC formed, Notre Dame briefly considered that to be the best spot for them. But a pizzing match with the power structure there over TV contracts was in the offing and only after MU, WMU and the NCHC announced partnerships and the TV tussle ensued did Notre Dame decide to accept the Hockey East invitation. Any other interpretation of the way the events unfolded might be fun, but they ain't correct.
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ND also told the WCHA flat out they weren't interested in joining their league. They could have joined the WCHA and had FSU and BGSU right near by. They already knew the costs of traveling to the UP. Nope, NCHC or flights to "like minded schools" in Hockey East were what they wanted.
 
davyd83 said:
The savings aren't as great as you'd think when you add an extra 4 days of hotels, meals, ice rental, workout facilities, etc. Then you add that an 11 day trip means you have to find activities for the players or they get stuck spending a lot of hotel time. That 11 day trip, as any 11 day trip anywhere for anyone, is extremely fatiguing. I know of a couple coaches who have done it and thought it was a good idea at the time, but would rather do two trips the next time they double dip Alaska.
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Are you forgetting the subsidies from UAF and UAA to travel up here? That alone has to represent some kind of cost savings.

As for teams taking a two week roadie up here, boo hoo. We got stuck doing it twice this year in the lower 48. It rubs us, and our respective programs, the wrong way when we are expected to conform to whatever is handed to us, with no regard to our own academic schedules, and yet other schools howl and whine over doing the exact same travel process that UAF and UAA have been doing for decades.

Yeah, I know, we are far away, nobody comes unless we pay for it, etc.
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

Also, I'd be curious if the WCHA would still be bleeding money if it didn't have the Alaska teams or UAH.

My guess is it still would...the travel costs are subsidized to those three schools and the distances between all the other schools aren't going to change. The bigger problem, IMO, is the limited payout from the conference tournament, dwindling attendance, and a lack of media exposure.
 
Squarebanks said:
Also, I'd be curious if the WCHA would still be bleeding money if it didn't have the Alaska teams or UAH.

My guess is it still would...the travel costs are subsidized to those three schools and the distances between all the other schools aren't going to change. The bigger problem, IMO, is the limited payout from the conference tournament, dwindling attendance, and a lack of media exposure.
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Even with the subsidy, the cost to travel to Fairbanks or Anchorage is basically still double what it costs us to visit Bemidji or Bowling Green.
 
Squarebanks said:
Are you forgetting the subsidies from UAF and UAA to travel up here? That alone has to represent some kind of cost savings.

As for teams taking a two week roadie up here, boo hoo. We got stuck doing it twice this year in the lower 48. It rubs us, and our respective programs, the wrong way when we are expected to conform to whatever is handed to us, with no regard to our own academic schedules, and yet other schools howl and whine over doing the exact same travel process that UAF and UAA have been doing for decades.

Yeah, I know, we are far away, nobody comes unless we pay for it, etc.
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I don't dispute any of your points. In fact, I agree with them.
 
Squarebanks said:
How does the math work out? Not disputing you, just curious.
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There is a set amount that Fairbanks pays, an amount that UAA pays and another that UAH pays. The amount is constant, doesn't vary from NMU to Bowling Green to LSSU. So while the actual dollar amount paid to Mankato or NMU stays the same, the percentage of cost it absorbs varies because it's much cheaper to get to Anchorage from Mankato or Bowling Green than it is from NMU or Bemidji.
 
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Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

I think Niagara would jump at the chance to get out of Atlantic Hockey. I'm fairly certain the only reason they are in there is because there was no logical place to go. I don't know if Air Force would leave Atlantic - they joined because I believe they knew the CHA was struggling to stay together and got the jump on the rest of the league.

Not sure if Robert Morris would jump. Canisius and Mercyhurst met with Bowling Green when they tried to save the CCHA. I don't think RIT makes this jump in leagues. I think the only league RIT would move to is ECAC if an opening became available. Without schaolarships, the Tigers would be hard pressed to compete in a conference where everyone else had a full compiment.
 
joecct said:
Isn't attendance down in both the NCHC, WCHA & B1G compared to the old WCHA & CCHA days?

Ancient rivalries were destroyed in favor of cash.

And playing what the heck, if raiding AHA is on style..

Far West conference: ASU, USAFA, CC, DU, AK, UAA
WCHA3: UNO, UND, BSU, SCSU, UMM, UMD, MTU
CCHA2: UAH, BGSU, FSU, WMU, NMU, LSSU, MIA

It's ugly, but ancient rivalries restored, travel reduced, money can be made, though the FWC does make me wince and filling OOC for some of the FWC schools may be an issue.
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Who is UMM? :confused:
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

To my knowledge, the NCHC offered their last spot in the 8 team conference to Notre Dame and they refused it. After they refused, the last spot was offered to St Cloud, who was going to remain in the new WCHA. The most logical thinking here geographically is that Bemidji and Mankato join the NCHC and Miami and Western Mich join the new WCHA. I don't know if Miami and WMU are interested in that option based on the simple fact that the competition is clearly inferior in the WCHA compared to the NCHC, but geographically that makes sense. Hunstville and the Alaska teams are outliers. They've always been outliers geographically so there may not be any good location for them, period. If you look at the size of the arenas, the attendance, and the travel distance that the current WCHA has compared to the NCHC, its easy to see why the NCHC makes money and the WCHA does not. The BIG doesn't have to worry about attendance at their venues. The conference as a whole has revenue sharing amongst all sports, so the profits they make in football and basketball more than make up for it.
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

alfablue said:
Because the teams are struggling?

For whatever reason, fans are fair weather- they want to see a team winning. Michigan may be having a good year, but this NCAA birth is the first in 3 seasons. Wisconsin is down for some reason. MSU is down for some reason. OSU is not a hockey school. PSU is doing incredibly well, with attendance over capacity this year. Had this taken place in the old conferences, the same thing would be happening.

Besides, the entire B1G is in the top 11 overall for attendance.

Not going to speak for the other conferences. If you want to take it out on the B1G for wanting to play as a conference just like they do in every other sport, that's your energy. But the WCHA and CCHA still had a great conference. Unless you think the B1G schools were that important. Which I thought that Northern fans always tried to talk down, and thought the CCHA always favored MSU unfairly...
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These teams are being doubly punished for their poor teams. Goofer fans are especially angry. Expensive tickets and none of the old rivalries, plus lots of entertainment options in the Twin Cities are keeping fans away. Wisky fans are tired of Eaves and apathy from Alvarez and are filled with hopelessness. No one in East Lansing cares about Wisky or PSU and the fact TA is probably going to be back another season just compounds the issue. Red is a chicken shlt who would rather schedule Dartmouth and Robert Morris and home and homes with Union and RPI than play the local schools. The Big 14 ruined college hockey.

Thanks for nothing.
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

Dirty Dream No. 2 said:
These teams are being doubly punished for their poor teams. Goofer fans are especially angry. Expensive tickets and none of the old rivalries, plus lots of entertainment options in the Twin Cities are keeping fans away. Wisky fans are tired of Eaves and apathy from Alvarez and are filled with hopelessness. No one in East Lansing cares about Wisky or PSU and the fact TA is probably going to be back another season just compounds the issue. Red is a chicken shlt who would rather schedule Dartmouth and Robert Morris and home and homes with Union and RPI than play the local schools. The Big 14 ruined college hockey.

Thanks for nothing.
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So apparently, it sucks to be you. Good luck with that.
 
Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

alfablue said:
So apparently, it sucks to be you. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...

Did you find a defense yet? Good luck making it out of the first weekend with your embarrassing defense and awful goaltending. It would be quite the fitting way for Red to go out.
 
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Re: AP: New WCHA "bleeding money"

ND was the belle of the ball when this all started. Everyone courted them. The NaCHo was the lead contender, as was mentioned, and when spurned, made SCSU go back on their previous statements, and had them join the conference.

As for WI, they might actually continue their downward spiral, as the school doesn't give 2 craps about them, and that's sad. Yes, as a MN fan, and a true hater, it's still sad. The Alaska schools? If they last another 3-4 years, I'll be surprised. As for a dark horse/WAG, I'd say CC isn't TOO far behind.

All in all, it's gonna get messier before things settle into a place that is like the pre-PSU days. A lot messier.
 
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