Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
This is probably your most insightful post, ever.
LOL!
This is probably your most insightful post, ever.
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
- Thread starter moe24
- Start date
- Status
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Cause all Republicans are the same...what are you trying to say?
And maybe Obama would step away from the ideology if the Rs did. What have the Rs done beyond make up crap and turn it into talking points? They decided they don't want to work and add to the reform they just want to shout and hope they can scare enough people to hold things up. If the Rs had anything of substance to say this probably would be worked out already. Instead it is all DEATH PANELS!!!1!!1 and SOCIALSM!!1!11!! That is their right, but in the end they have no real say in what is going on.
Its like when you are playing football with your buddies and you get burned deep and have no chance to stop the play you scream as loud as you can hoping to distract the guy enough to drop the ball.
You would think that maybe this would inspire them to come up with something on their own to point to and push through, make it part of the debate and compromise. Naaaaah they would rather act like children and basically kill any chance of this not going through for those of us that think this is a bad idea.
Cause all Republicans are the same...what are you trying to say?
And maybe Obama would step away from the ideology if the Rs did. What have the Rs done beyond make up crap and turn it into talking points? They decided they don't want to work and add to the reform they just want to shout and hope they can scare enough people to hold things up. If the Rs had anything of substance to say this probably would be worked out already. Instead it is all DEATH PANELS!!!1!!1 and SOCIALSM!!1!11!! That is their right, but in the end they have no real say in what is going on.
Its like when you are playing football with your buddies and you get burned deep and have no chance to stop the play you scream as loud as you can hoping to distract the guy enough to drop the ball.
You would think that maybe this would inspire them to come up with something on their own to point to and push through, make it part of the debate and compromise. Naaaaah they would rather act like children and basically kill any chance of this not going through for those of us that think this is a bad idea.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Say it is - the bottom line will be, did this bill pay for itself or not. The # is 90bn a year over 10 years (for starters). How much they get from lower drug and medical payments (the 250bn) should be known. How much they get from insurance taxes should be known. Either they have an accounting of 90Bn in savings a year or they have to go back and find more. How they get there might be tough to predict. Assessing whether or not they did get there isn't.
Say it is - the bottom line will be, did this bill pay for itself or not. The # is 90bn a year over 10 years (for starters). How much they get from lower drug and medical payments (the 250bn) should be known. How much they get from insurance taxes should be known. Either they have an accounting of 90Bn in savings a year or they have to go back and find more. How they get there might be tough to predict. Assessing whether or not they did get there isn't.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
It didn't change anybody who already had a firm opinion, because nothing does. It was aimed at two groups: the 28% of the country who keep saying "I haven't made up my mind yet" when they're polled on health care and the independents the Blue Dogs were afraid of losing in the midterms.
I think you have it exactly backwards. Until this Obama was scrupulously avoiding (at least the appearance of) ideology, and the problem was he appeared to be purely pragmatic. With this speech he reiterates the principles he ran on and says "you voted for this, we promised to do it, we're going to do it." The urgency of the problem gives him propulsion, but until this speech he'd lost the rudder.
A third of the people in the country will oppose Obama no matter what, a third will support him no matter what. They weren't the target. The interesting third are undecided and will support or oppose piecemeal based on how issues are framed. Nearly by definition none of the people who post on these threads is in that third, because posters tend to be strongly opinionated and invested.
No matter what happens, proponents will claim it saved money and opponents will claim it lost money. There's no control group, so analysis will be bent to support each preconceived ideological position. In politics, the verdict always precedes the trial.
It didn't change anybody who already had a firm opinion, because nothing does. It was aimed at two groups: the 28% of the country who keep saying "I haven't made up my mind yet" when they're polled on health care and the independents the Blue Dogs were afraid of losing in the midterms.
I think you have it exactly backwards. Until this Obama was scrupulously avoiding (at least the appearance of) ideology, and the problem was he appeared to be purely pragmatic. With this speech he reiterates the principles he ran on and says "you voted for this, we promised to do it, we're going to do it." The urgency of the problem gives him propulsion, but until this speech he'd lost the rudder.
A third of the people in the country will oppose Obama no matter what, a third will support him no matter what. They weren't the target. The interesting third are undecided and will support or oppose piecemeal based on how issues are framed. Nearly by definition none of the people who post on these threads is in that third, because posters tend to be strongly opinionated and invested.
No matter what happens, proponents will claim it saved money and opponents will claim it lost money. There's no control group, so analysis will be bent to support each preconceived ideological position. In politics, the verdict always precedes the trial.
Last edited:
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Pretty much. The problem is the Dems are easily distracted. You run that on Cheney and he still catches it 10 times out of 10 (with time left over to kill kittens).
Pretty much. The problem is the Dems are easily distracted. You run that on Cheney and he still catches it 10 times out of 10 (with time left over to kill kittens).
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Oh I know...the Dems are that friend you let play and try to get him a charity touchdown every game but he always seems to find a way to screw it up
Cheney would catch it one handed and taunt you with it all the way to the end zone then spike it (killing a kitten) and having it hit you square in the nose!
Oh I know...the Dems are that friend you let play and try to get him a charity touchdown every game but he always seems to find a way to screw it up
Cheney would catch it one handed and taunt you with it all the way to the end zone then spike it (killing a kitten) and having it hit you square in the nose!
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
He's the Detroit Red Wings against the South Park peewees.
Oh I know...the Dems are that friend you let play and try to get him a charity touchdown every game but he always seems to find a way to screw it up
Cheney would catch it one handed and taunt you with it all the way to the end zone then spike it (killing a kitten) and having it hit you square in the nose!
He's the Detroit Red Wings against the South Park peewees.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
So You Think You Can Dance trounces So You Think You Can Lie:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/09/10/tv-ratings-sytycd-vs-potus-and-glee-premieres-nicely/26693
So You Think You Can Dance trounces So You Think You Can Lie:
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/09/10/tv-ratings-sytycd-vs-potus-and-glee-premieres-nicely/26693
Dirty
#BanBiddy
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Too bad you didn't appear on national TV with your special So You Think I'm a ****** Bag. You'd have owned everyone.
Too bad you didn't appear on national TV with your special So You Think I'm a ****** Bag. You'd have owned everyone.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
I think he did help to outline what he supports and what he does not. However, I am very skeptical about the whole "savings" thing. It sounds like typical Government BS to me. Yeah, I am sure there are some savings to be had, but I highly doubt it will be anywhere near what he predicted last night. Also as for the going back and find more saving part. Bunch of hogwash. That is the type of stuff Politicians spew to get votes. Yes, they might put it in the final bill, but if things don't work out I am sure future Congress and the future President who has to deal with this aftermath will just pass another law getting the money from new taxes or borrow it.
Finally, the only way Obama's speech "takes away Blue Dog opposition" is if he swayed public opinion in their districts. And I think the jury is still out on that one.
I guess I missed those details. Besides summing up his stance on death panels, and the public option, it sounded more like a campaign speech than a speech of any real substance.
I think he did help to outline what he supports and what he does not. However, I am very skeptical about the whole "savings" thing. It sounds like typical Government BS to me. Yeah, I am sure there are some savings to be had, but I highly doubt it will be anywhere near what he predicted last night. Also as for the going back and find more saving part. Bunch of hogwash. That is the type of stuff Politicians spew to get votes. Yes, they might put it in the final bill, but if things don't work out I am sure future Congress and the future President who has to deal with this aftermath will just pass another law getting the money from new taxes or borrow it.
Finally, the only way Obama's speech "takes away Blue Dog opposition" is if he swayed public opinion in their districts. And I think the jury is still out on that one.
I guess I missed those details. Besides summing up his stance on death panels, and the public option, it sounded more like a campaign speech than a speech of any real substance.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
He was as detailed as any 50 minute speech I've ever seen. Facts are you either believe him or you don't.
He was as detailed as any 50 minute speech I've ever seen. Facts are you either believe him or you don't.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
There was about 10 minutes of details and the rest of it was cheerleading. Has nothing to do with whether or not I believe his stance.
There was about 10 minutes of details and the rest of it was cheerleading. Has nothing to do with whether or not I believe his stance.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Exactly. If they don't specifically identify 900 billion in savings to pay for the program, and if they don't do it in conjunction with having a bill ready for Obama to sign, then he can't sign the bill without making himself out to be a liar. In his speech last night, he said he wouldn't sign the bill if it added even one dime to the deficit.
Another point about finding savings in the existing system. Why aren't they doing that now and implementing solutions? The health insurance bill won't be implemented for 4 years (2013), assuming it is approved. We should be eliminating fraud, waste and abuse now.
Exactly. If they don't specifically identify 900 billion in savings to pay for the program, and if they don't do it in conjunction with having a bill ready for Obama to sign, then he can't sign the bill without making himself out to be a liar. In his speech last night, he said he wouldn't sign the bill if it added even one dime to the deficit.
Another point about finding savings in the existing system. Why aren't they doing that now and implementing solutions? The health insurance bill won't be implemented for 4 years (2013), assuming it is approved. We should be eliminating fraud, waste and abuse now.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Huh?
So You Think You Can Dance got 6.465 million viewers, while Obama's speech got 7.4 million viewers on ABC, 5.63 million on CBS, and 8.16 million on NBC. And that's just the Big Three networks, to say nothing of the cable networks.
Huh?
So You Think You Can Dance got 6.465 million viewers, while Obama's speech got 7.4 million viewers on ABC, 5.63 million on CBS, and 8.16 million on NBC. And that's just the Big Three networks, to say nothing of the cable networks.
moe24
Original Lawson Lunatic
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Who needs facts?
Who needs facts?
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
1700 of the 3700 words are the explicit policy section. That's 46% or about 27 minutes of the 60 minute speech. I'm confident that compares favorably with major policy speeches given by any recent president.
1700 of the 3700 words are the explicit policy section. That's 46% or about 27 minutes of the 60 minute speech. I'm confident that compares favorably with major policy speeches given by any recent president.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
Are you asking him to read? The man can't even come up with funny posts and insults reading and math are way out of his league
Are you asking him to read? The man can't even come up with funny posts and insults reading and math are way out of his league
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
But the country trusts the Congress far less... BHO may have great ideas, but the implementer of those ideas is the Congress, currently in the hands of the Mad Prince and Princess.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies
The. Right. Doesn't. Matter.
Mr. Obama's party has majorities in the House and Senate (a filibuster-proof one in the Senate no less). If he's got the right legislation, why does he need the R's? His party should be running this through like crap through a goose.
However, his own house (or is that House?) is not aligned enough to pass this legislation. So why are the R's even an issue? The D's must be able to see that Mr. Obama is right. Why isn't his party following in lock-step with him?
So don't blame the R's for being "obstructionist":
Mr. Obama's party has the power and the majorities.
Yet, they are not doing this for him. ...
Why?
The. Right. Doesn't. Matter.
Mr. Obama's party has majorities in the House and Senate (a filibuster-proof one in the Senate no less). If he's got the right legislation, why does he need the R's? His party should be running this through like crap through a goose.
However, his own house (or is that House?) is not aligned enough to pass this legislation. So why are the R's even an issue? The D's must be able to see that Mr. Obama is right. Why isn't his party following in lock-step with him?
So don't blame the R's for being "obstructionist":
Mr. Obama's party has the power and the majorities.
Yet, they are not doing this for him. ...
Why?
- Status