America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

[leswp1]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

You would if you were taking your orders from



I see you've completed the thought.

Or if you are happily listening to the propaganda they are pumping into the airwaves. This would make an epic novel of conspiracy and could have all sorts of convoluted plots and characters.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

If it's not the only piece then why do we have to solve both at the same time? Seems to me that's one of the problems with Congress right now is they have to have the whole cow or they don't eat.

Exactly. Too much emphasis from some people on "lets solve every single problem that affects health care in one bill". Like anything else, take action now and then revise when needed. Frankly I think the GOP would have bette luck addressing this separately, as the Dem leadership is rightly suspicious of the motives of the right when they start pushing controversial amendments given that their stated aim is delaying this as long as possible.

Pass the bill, and then take this up afterwards. Now it would look like the GOP is actually on board with cutting costs, and its harder for anybody to justify voting against a good faith effort to reign in costs.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

They should be solved at the same time because tort reform is an important piece of reigning in escalating heath care costs. It's not the only contributor to rising costs, but tort is a significant one. Why would we want to pass a huge new health care bill, one of the main goals of which is to bring escalating costs under control, and not simultaneously address one of the main contributors to such rising costs?

You just don't get it. You're like the whiny kid in the corner who has to have his way or he's not going to play.

 

[ScottM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I have yet to see a good idea for national "tort reform". I would rather see the states develop their own remedies, whether by caps on non-economic damages, mediation, arbitration, etc. Moreover, if you think "tort reform" is a panacea for some of the costs of healthcare you conveniently forget the medical device and drug companies who spend billions annually on defense, settlements, additional testing, etc. and whose costs tower over the MDs and hospitals.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Tort reform is being used by some on the right as an excuse to defeat the package, which now looks more and more likely to pass. The hope is a vague amendment is thrown in there to incite a holy war between moderate to conservative Dems and the trail lawyer lobby that generally supports them.

The problem is the President beat them to the punch, and is already advocating a study of malpractice reform in the final bill. That gives the Dems proper cover to address the issue while avoiding any games the opposition is trying to play on something that has little to do with the overall costs of medical care.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Also, still waiting for that GOP bill on health care:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Wheres_the_GOP_health_care_alternative.html


Lots of talk, but no actual proposal to study for coverage, cost estimates, etc. Waiting 100 days and counting. Where's the bill guys?
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One remarkable stat from the Times poll today: "Most Americans trust Mr. Obama more than Republicans to make the right decisions on the issue; 76 percent said Republicans had not even laid out a clear health care plan."
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[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Also, still waiting for that GOP bill on health care:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Wheres_the_GOP_health_care_alternative.html


Lots of talk, but no actual proposal to study for coverage, cost estimates, etc. Waiting 100 days and counting. Where's the bill guys?

House Democrats are marking today as the 100-day anniversary of House Republicans promising to produce their own alternative health reform bill as part of their larger effort to shed the Party of No label.

“I guarantee you we will provide you with a bill,” said Rep. Roy Blunt (R-MO), the point man on the alternative plan, on June 17.

Well, where the hell is it?

 

[geezer]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

"Though MRI scanning has obvious advantages over invasive procedures, its use on the very sick is also not cost-free.

Another anecdote: my friend was working when the x-ray tech pinned up an x-ray to the light-board thing and asked the doctor, is this clear enough or should we send him for an MRI? Without turning to even glance at the available image, the doctor's only question was, "What kind of insurance does he have?"
"Blue Cross"
"Yeah, we better get the MRI done".
I'm sure this happens all the time. All these rinky-dink rural hospitals are trying to keep up payments on these imaging machines by using them as often as possible. My pet peeve.

 

[JW Tigers]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Also, still waiting for that GOP bill on health care:

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One remarkable stat from the Times poll today: "Most Americans trust Mr. Obama more than Republicans to make the right decisions on the issue; 76 percent said Republicans had not even laid out a clear health care plan."
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In other words either the media is not reporting it, or 76% are not paying attention. H.R. 3400 has been on the table since July 30th...

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

The problem is the President beat them to the punch, and is already advocating a study of malpractice reform in the final bill.

Spoken like a true DNC toady. Scooby made it clear after the SOTU that O included TORT reform in his plan (which of course isn't true and only believable by the Kool-Aid gulpers).

"Advocating" in this instance means "Appeasing - for now".

I find his commercials, never-ending press conferences, pep rallies and other propaganda-spewing means and methods (which are consuming the vast majority of his time) to get this thing passed lacking any sort of presidential decorum.

 

[Bill]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Tort reform is being used by some on the right as an excuse to defeat the package, which now looks more and more likely to pass. The hope is a vague amendment is thrown in there to incite a holy war between moderate to conservative Dems and the trail lawyer lobby that generally supports them.

The problem is the President beat them to the punch, and is already advocating a study of malpractice reform in the final bill. That gives the Dems proper cover to address the issue while avoiding any games the opposition is trying to play on something that has little to do with the overall costs of medical care.

Tort/Medical Malpractice lawsuits have little to do with increasing medical care costs? What are you smoking? It's not the only cost driver, but it's certainly one of them. Obama's reference to studying the issue is nothing more than lip service. Including tort reform in the bill would mean doing something for the benefit of the country as a whole, which makes it unlikely that Congress will do so.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Tort/Medical Malpractice lawsuits have little to do with increasing medical care costs? What are you smoking? It's not the only cost driver, but it's certainly one of them. Obama's reference to studying the issue is nothing more than lip service. Including tort reform in the bill would mean doing something for the benefit of the country as a whole, which makes it unlikely that Congress will do so.

Great post. Rover doesn't have a clue as to the cost of insurance premiums on any business, including hospitals or healthcare providers....and one could only guess at what graces his bong from day to day.

Obama's talk of TORT reform is lip service - if anyone thinks he'll pass it considering the amount of $ the trial lawyers contribute to him, they're out to lunch. IIRC, I think I posted earlier about the person he has "looking into this" being the former lobbyist for the Kansas Trial Lawyer's Assn.??

Another cosmic joke by this administration.

 

[Kepler]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Including tort reform in the bill would mean doing something for the benefit of the country as a whole, which makes it unlikely that Congress will do so.

Having a separate tort reform bill would accomplish the same thing.

There are two common tricks that both sides use all the time. (1) to derail legislation that's going to pass narrowly, you keep adding issues to it, picking up an opponent here and there, until you can kill the whole thing. (2) when you have legislation that's a gun to the opposition head and they can't oppose it -- "the Motherhood and Apple Pie Bill" -- you hide much more controversial issues inside it and force an up/down on the whole enchilada.

Minority parties use strategy (1), majority parties use strategy (2). Neither strategy would work if the electorate were either smart or aware of what was going on, but the former isn't going to happen without genetic manipulation and the latter isn't going to happen as long as most people get their news from either shills for one of the parties or ringmasters at The Circus of the End of Civilization.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Having a separate tort reform bill would accomplish the same thing.

There are two common tricks that both sides use all the time. (1) to derail legislation that's going to pass narrowly, you keep adding issues to it, picking up an opponent here and there, until you can kill the whole thing. (2) when you have legislation that's a gun to the opposition head and they can't oppose it -- "the Motherhood and Apple Pie Bill" -- you hide much more controversial issues inside it and force an up/down on the whole enchilada.

Yup. dropthatpuck's living in the 80's, back when you could pull juvenile stuff like this and get away with it. Its also the same time Reagan's senility was kept quiet and his hockey team had only gone 20 years since its inception without a national championship. In short, the best of times for the old boy.

JS - Looks like you should have mentioned this to Eric Cantor's staff, because this was his response:

Eric Cantor's guy Brad Dayspring shot back, "Rep. Van Hollen is too distracted by abysmal polls over at the DCCC and warring factions within his own party. While he’s trying to force House Democrats to swallow a radical bill that’s been rejected by the American people, Republicans have numerous solutions that Democrats could work with if they were actually interested in moving bipartisan health care legislation. But they aren't."

Hmmmm....No mention of any House bills. Funny. I wonder what the independent estimate of what any of these "solutions" are that he's speaking of?

More here...
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House GOP leaders pledged their plan would lower health care costs, improve the private marketplace, and expand accessibility — and they promised to keep government bureaucrats out of the process. The Republican plan allows for dependents to stay on their parents’ health plans until they are 25 years of age and provides a small business tax credit to employers who offer health care.


Minority Leader John Boehner said the goal of the House GOP plan was to improve the current health care system


“As we proceed down this path, we have to be careful not to impede what works in the current system,” Boehner told reporters. “We take the current health care system and make it better for all Americans.”


“I guarantee you we will provide you with a bill that costs less and provides better care for the American people,” said Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), who is heading up the House GOP’s health care effort.

But while Republican leaders today attacked Democrats for the cost of their plan, they declined to offer any details on how much their own blueprint would cost.


Rep. Dave Camp (R-Mich.), the ranking Republican member on the Ways and Means Committee, acknowledged that the outline lacked solid numbers, but pledged that the plan would cost less than what Democrats were proposing.
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So again, what's their bill, and how much does it cost? Pretty simple questions really.

 

[Bill]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Having a separate tort reform bill would accomplish the same thing.

Yes it would, but there's no reason not to include in the current health care bill where it belongs, other than the fact that Washington is full of lawyers and most lawyers in the country support the current majority party.

Two of the things I really dislike about the way Congress operates: including things in bills that have absolutely nothing to do with the bills prime intent; and failure to include things in bills which belong there.

 

[dropthatpuck]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Two of the things I really dislike about the way Congress operates: including things in bills that have absolutely nothing to do with the bills prime intent; and failure to include things in bills which belong there.

Another good post. No wonder our resident lefties are all over you.

Les talks about not including TORT reform and how she's OK with it for now - and why not just concede it and pass the other stuff?.....but why not just include it at this time?

The reason is simple - trial attorneys don't want it in there and Obama, feeding at their trough with the other Dems, won't cut off any money supply to their personal coffers.

Does it really surprise anyone that the peeps trying to save us from the greedy people on Wall Street are actually more greedy?

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Tort/Medical Malpractice lawsuits have little to do with increasing medical care costs? What are you smoking? It's not the only cost driver, but it's certainly one of them. Obama's reference to studying the issue is nothing more than lip service. Including tort reform in the bill would mean doing something for the benefit of the country as a whole, which makes it unlikely that Congress will do so.

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All told, jury awards, settlements and administrative costs — which, by definition, are similar to the combined cost of insurance — add up to less than $10 billion a year. This equals less than one-half of a percentage point of medical spending.
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Bill, don't be like dtp. Its okay to apologize to me when I've proven you wrong.

IF some portion of 10B can be saved, its well worth doing. Howver, its not well worth doing if its used to try to scuttle a bill that will reduce the cost curve of health care spending growth while also extending coverage to tens of millions more Americans, as an independent analysis has shown for the Finance Committee bill. Take it up separately so that the motives won't be questioned. If it has merit, let its proponents run on that.

 

[sagard]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

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All told, jury awards, settlements and administrative costs — which, by definition, are similar to the combined cost of insurance — add up to less than $10 billion a year. This equals less than one-half of a percentage point of medical spending.
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Of course the LOGICAL retort is that if it is such a small item, Obama is foolish for not appeasing some Repubs and helping get this done.

Just because W and his thugs did their best to destroy our country, doesn't mean all conservative ideas are bad.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

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All told, jury awards, settlements and administrative costs — which, by definition, are similar to the combined cost of insurance — add up to less than $10 billion a year. This equals less than one-half of a percentage point of medical spending.
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Clearly that is the panacea we've been looking for..........GET ER DONE!

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Of course the LOGICAL retort is that if it is such a small item, Obama is foolish for not appeasing some Repubs and helping get this done.

Just because W and his thugs did their best to destroy our country, doesn't mean all conservative ideas are bad.

I don't have a problem with an effort for reform in this area. But it has to be a separate bill. That insures its not just a stall tactic.