What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

State governments are to blame for most of this. They "mandate" certain coverages whether people want them or not.

Then perhaps the feds should create a federal charter for insurance companies, similar to what banks can have, that would require minimum standards of coverage, but also preempt contrary state requirements. Allow insurers and customers to bargain across state lines, and force these companies to really compete and offer the best coverage at the lowest rates.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Exactly - like the "salad bar" concept I mentioned earlier. The way things are now, the companies aren't ALLOWED to sell a different plan to a 25 year old than they do to a 60 year old, so the consumers have basically no choices - employers make them all. If consumers could choose individual options, the insurance companies would have to get a lot better at pricing the coverage for specific illnesses which would drive inefficiency out of the system.

Would a "cash-out" system work for you?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/the_idea_that_could_save_healt.html

The Free Choice Act is not a health-care-reform bill. It is best understood as a reform of the health-care-reform bill. In particular, it reforms the nature of the Health Insurance Exchange. Under the bills being considered right now, the exchange will be limited to the uninsured, the self-employed and small businesses. Maybe it will be expanded over time. Maybe not. In addition, it is barricaded by what's called a "firewall." The firewall essentially bars individuals from entering the exchange so long as their employers offer them a basic level of health-care coverage.

The Free Choice Act starts by setting the rules for the exchange: Within five years the exchange is open to all employers. More importantly, it's open to all people. The firewall is extinguished. But as the late, great, Billy Mays would say, that's not all!

The key component of the Free Choice Act is called "cash-out." Under the Free Choice Act, if I decide that I don't like any of the health-care coverage options being offered by my employer and would prefer to choose from the many options being offered on the Health Insurance Exchange, my employer has to give me a voucher that covers 65 to 70 percent of the cost of the lowest level of exchange plan. (That is the average portion that an employer pays of his employee's health insurance premiums.) I can take that voucher and, along with whatever money I want to throw in, choose a plan on the exchange.

This does a couple of things. First, it changes the health-care system for the currently insured. It doesn't take what they have. But it gives them a choice. If the political yin of health-care reform is that you can keep what you have if you like it, the policy yang should be that you can choose something different if you don't. The Free Choice Act gives the insured something concrete: autonomy. If they don't like what they have, they are assured options. In 1994, Bill Clinton's plan was defeated because people believed it would restrict choice. Given the apparent power of the objection, it makes some sense to try to sell health-care reform atop the concrete promise that it will increase choice.

Second, it gives people an incentive to choose cost-effective plans. If your employer is paying 70 percent of your $10,000 health insurance premium, and you find a $9,000 plan on the Exchange -- maybe it's an HMO rather than a PPO -- you pocket $1,000. Currently, since I pay only 30 percent of my health-care premiums, making the same choice within the HMO and PPO offerings that The Washington Post gives me would only net me $333 dollars. Wyden's plan would put 300 percent as much money in my pocket. That changes behavior. And even the CBO thinks so. This is one of the main reasons the Congressional Budget Office scored Wyden's Healthy Americans Act -- which had a similar provision -- as saving, rather than costing, money.

Third, it begins to build a viable alternative to the employer-based health-care system. Experts think that the exchange will need at least 20 million participants to really start seeing advantages of scale. This will ensure it has much more than that. And if the exchange works? If direct competition between insurers lowers costs and increases quality, if standardized billing and administrative efficiencies save money, if the massive pool of customers helps insurers bargain for discounts with providers, then the exchange will become a progressively better deal, and more people will choose -- there's that word again -- to enter it. And if more people choose to enter it, then that cycle happens again, more people enter, and so forth. Soon, you've built the system we want rather than the one we have.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Funny then how the NEJM used the same methodology for their polling.

You're completely wrong. IDB didn't give any information about its methodology.

There is virtually no disclosure about methodology. For example, IBD doesn't bother to define the term "practicing physician", which could mean almost anything. Nor do they explain how their randomization procedure worked, provide the entire question battery, or anything like that.

In contrast, here's NEJM's methodology, which I found after 3 minutes of looking.
 
Last edited:
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

MinnFan, you've just publicly been called out as a liar. Care to step up to the plate and respond?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Oops - my bad. Didn't mean to imply that I felt that way about ER care for true emergencies - but yes, I do mean that for non-emergency care whether at the ER or an office. I'm probably just a heartless jerk for feeling that way, but I do.

Hey that's better than what I first read. For a minute I thought you'd gone Red Cloud on us.:eek: :eek: :cool:
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

To pay for the 10-year, $856 billion bill Baucus wants to tax high-value insurance plans, those worth $21,000 for a family and $8,000 for an individual. Baucus says those are "Cadillac plans" enjoyed by a small minority of Americans. Aides said about 10 percent of plans and 8 percent of taxpayers could be affected.

But other Democratic senators fear that the tax would reach deep into middle-class pocketbooks, and labor unions are upset. Two Democrats on the Finance Committee, Sens. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, along with other senators, say they want to limit the tax before signing off on the bill.

"We need to make it fairer to working people so that working folks don't get dragged into this at a level where they just don't have the incomes to support it," Kerry told reporters after a closed-door committee meeting to discuss the bill. The panel will begin voting on the bill Tuesday.

Rockefeller, who met privately with Obama on Wednesday, said the proposal "could prevent workers in high-risk professions from getting the health benefits that they need, particularly coal miners," a significant constituency in his state.

Insurers and business groups also oppose the new tax and other fees in the bill, and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is wasting no time making its objections known. The chamber announced it will begin airing a new TV ad Friday in more than a dozen states lambasting "Washington politicians" who "want new taxes on health care companies — taxes that will get passed on to you."

The insurance tax was one of several concerns raised Thursday by Democrats, forecasting contentious debate when Baucus' committee acts on the bill and during later votes in the Senate. Beyond the question of how the legislation would impact working-class Americans, liberal lawmakers are concerned about the absence of a new government-run insurance plan.

Instead of the so-called public plan, Baucus went with nonprofit cooperatives.

Although he failed in his monthslong quest to get Republican backing for his bill and now faces a host of Democratic concerns, Baucus defended his efforts Thursday.

"I don't think there will be any changes in the core provisions of the bill," Baucus said.


------rover knew this bill would pay for itself!! :eek: :cool: :p
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

more...

At a campaign-style rally at the University of Maryland on Thursday, Obama called reinventing health care a "defining struggle of this generation," though he barely mentioned Baucus' bill. For many of the students, after graduating they would be faced with the requirement to buy health insurance under the Baucus plan. (:eek: )

The high-value insurance plan tax, which Obama embraced in his speech to Congress last week, is a major source of revenue for Baucus' bill, bringing in an estimated $215 billion over 10 years.

If it's changed, Baucus would have to raise revenue elsewhere, which is not easy. Baucus and other supporters of the measure, including Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., say it would have the positive effect of driving down health care costs over the long term by encouraging companies to move toward cheaper health plans and workers to use less care.

Conrad, who was part of the six-member negotiating team Baucus led for months to try to reach consensus on a bill, said numerous health policy experts had advised that the tax was a good way to go. Baucus initially had supported taxing employer health benefits before he dropped the idea for political reasons; the idea was proposed during last year's presidential campaign by GOP nominee Sen. John McCain, and Obama campaigned against it (:eek: :eek: :eek: You Lie!! :D ).

The 35 percent tax levied on insurance plans is a different approach, though unions (:rolleyes: :rolleyes: but keep holding those signs :p ) and employers contend it will end up being passed along to workers. Conrad acknowledged the criticism but said it was a necessary step.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

For many of the students, after graduating they would be faced with the requirement to buy health insurance under the Baucus plan. (:eek: )

Yeah, and the problem with that is...what?

The alternative is not having insurance, in which case you shouldn't be able to whine about pre-existing conditions not being covered, or going bankrupt if a major medical emergency happens.

Since we as a society don't like that outcome, I have no problem forcing people to carry a minimum health insurance policy.

Frankly, I can't imagine not being covered by something. Hell, my fiancee and I may do a courthouse wedding sooner rather than later just so she can get on my health insurance plan if she doesn't get employed soon.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Oops - my bad. Didn't mean to imply that I felt that way about ER care for true emergencies - but yes, I do mean that for non-emergency care whether at the ER or an office. I'm probably just a heartless jerk for feeling that way, but I do.
Somewhere back there a few pages or so I posted something about this. They tried desperately to curb the use of ERs for non-emergent issues. The legal definition of emergency is that the lay person must think it is one. This can include a hangnail or a heart attack. Until you find a way to get around that definition there is no way they can reject the non-urgent emergency visits. Utterly stupid but true. Also a medical person is bound to care for the sick no matter what- if you walk in and tell me something and I don't fix it or at least offer you options to get it fixed I am negligent. (Torte reform would be nice....)

This is absolutely the truth. I am so fed up with paying for other people's stupidity. If I am going to be forced to subsidize people's health care coverage, then I think it is more than reasonable to require that they keep them selves in decent shape. No smoking, limited drinking, no obese people. If they choose to not follow these rules then they should pay a penalty.

I would love to join a health care plan where there is a requirement to maintain a healthy lifestyle (with forced checkups) and in return for that I pay a lower rate than plan that cover anyone and everyone.
COncierge medicine is where you need to be. They have that option and it is way cool.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

You're completely wrong. IDB didn't give any information about its methodology.



In contrast, here's NEJM's methodology, which I found after 3 minutes of looking.

I was speaking to the fact that both did mail-in surveys to random physician samples. I am curious as to how IDB found their sample. I'd also like to know how complete the AMA database is when so many doctors aren't members.

edit: IBD methodology
 
Last edited:
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

For many of the students, after graduating they would be faced with the requirement to buy health insurance under the Baucus plan. (:eek: )

In Massachusetts, children can stay on their parent's plan up to age 26.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

In Massachusetts, children can stay on their parent's plan up to age 26.
Baucus's plan has this, too. Nothing like promising a free lunch to get some young voters on board.

What do you mean there's no free lunch? Can that be right? I've never heard that before! :D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Torte reform would be nice.
Torte reform? Yummmy!!!!

obliv_torte.jpg

:D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Yeah, and the problem with that is...what?

The alternative is not having insurance, in which case you shouldn't be able to whine about pre-existing conditions not being covered, or going bankrupt if a major medical emergency happens.

Since we as a society don't like that outcome, I have no problem forcing people to carry a minimum health insurance policy.

Frankly, I can't imagine not being covered by something. Hell, my fiancee and I may do a courthouse wedding sooner rather than later just so she can get on my health insurance plan if she doesn't get employed soon.

Amen. I'd be all for people declining to take health insurance if they also declined to use the ER or better yet could somehow be held responsible for all costs of their medical care. In the absence of something like that, then people need to have insurance so the rest of us aren't paying for their more expensive care for them.

Mookie - I expected Baucus' bill to be paid for. What I didn't expect is the CBO to put it at a lower cost and go on record as saying its a deficit reducer. Two huge implications of that. 1) The Dems have 49Bn to fiddle with to get more libs on board, and 2) 20 year timeframe studied kills the "this is all an accounting gimmick" argument that costs will indeed rise after 10 years. Its awful tough for the opposition to on the one hand use CBO estimates to blast a House bill, but then turn around and say they're idiots when they (tacitly) endorse this bill.

Regarding people staying on parents insurance until 26 - don't most young people live off their parents until they're 30 nowadays anyway???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top