AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

It's not Division I's doing, it's division iii's doing and it's been that way since the 1980s when they eliminated scholarships at that level save for grandfathered programs playing at a higher level.

People don't usually realize this but there are different governing bodies for each of the 3 levels under the NCAA banner. Some things cover all divisions but not all things

Yeah, as far as I read, Union didn't choose to not give scholarships...they decided to play up after some transition point in the 80s and were not allowed, while Clarkson, RPI, CC and St. Lawrence were already playing up and grandfathered later to protect their scholarships in perpetuity. RIT falls in with Union as playing up too late in the process.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

Except this guy from AFA who got Bernie Sanders to sponsor him!

Number -11
Name - Renda, Vince
Hometown - Montreal, Quebec
Last Team - Brockville Bears (CCHL)

You don't have to be American to be sponsored by a Senator. They accept talent worldwide, clearly he has more to offer than just hockey.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

Actually, the limit used to be even less than the 14 it is now. It was not that way to keep larger schools out (like any would really want to join this conference anyhow). The MAAC and eventually AHA was founded with cost containment one of their primary objectives so that Division I programs that didn't have the resources (or the desire, in some cases) to fully support an actual D-I hockey team would have a place to play and compete with similar programs.

Isn't keeping larger schools out exactly what has to be done to ensure competition with similar programs?

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

Even if you consider the academy athletes to be on "scholarship" (to a school that has no tuition), the fact that the entire team is on "scholarship" is offset by the fact that the entire school is on "scholarship". The rules about financial assistance are usually interpreted with respect to how it is available to athletes in comparison to the rest of the student body at that school. There aren't many, if any, athletes that attend military academies for sports only. That military commitment is not a trivial thing. And besides, admission to a military academy isn't exactly a walk in the park. Not only are the requirements stringent, you also need one of your state's Senators to sponsor you, if I understand correctly.

Oh no doubt...contrary to jock stereotypes, people who excel at something enough to get to a very high level, such as Division I NCAA hockey, tend to also excel in other ways as well. They aren't lazy drug addicts, in an extreme example.

I once looked into playing NCAA Division II Tennis for Michigan Tech, which gave out no scholarships, met with the coach, I was #1 in my high school, and it turned out the gap was enormous in talent between me and the worst player on the team. And get this, the average GPA of the team members was a 3.5. That's with them traveling on a bus so much and missing classes too.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

Navy Recruiter....hmmm, you seem too tall to join.

David Robinson...I'm an excellent basketball player!

Navy Recruiter...Off to the Academy you go!

Yes, quite the PR job for the Navy but they all knew he'd never get sea duty out of this gig but it was a good result for all involved.

There are other Navy jobs that are critical. A civil engineer who owns his own firm sits across the hall from me and he built ships while in the Navy working at the shipyard. Never spent 1 day living at sea.

David majored in Math. Which is a hard science equally respected along the lines of engineering. He left the Navy as a Lieutenant JG. Probably would have worked in cryptography at a Navy HQ in case he got injured and couldn't play in the NBA.

 

[Snively65]

Yeah, as far as I read, Union didn't choose to not give scholarships...they decided to play up after some transition point in the 80s and were not allowed, while Clarkson, RPI, CC and St. Lawrence were already playing up and grandfathered later to protect their scholarships in perpetuity. RIT falls in with Union as playing up too late in the process.

According to earlier posts, Union could have added scholarships, but chose not to do so, whereas RIT was too late to Div 1 to add scholarships, unless I misread those posts.

 

[blazer777]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

You don't have to be American to be sponsored by a Senator. They accept talent worldwide, clearly he has more to offer than just hockey.

Actually, you do if you are a US Citizen. The Academy's do take International Students but hey are sponsored by their home countries and approved for admission to the academies. Renda happens to be from Montreal but holds dual citizenship (Canadian/US) so I'm not sure where the sponsorship came from.

 

[blazer777]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

There are other Navy jobs that are critical. A civil engineer who owns his own firm sits across the hall from me and he built ships while in the Navy working at the shipyard. Never spent 1 day living at sea.

David majored in Math. Which is a hard science equally respected along the lines of engineering. He left the Navy as a Lieutenant JG. Probably would have worked in cryptography at a Navy HQ in case he got injured and couldn't play in the NBA.

There are many Navy jobs that are critical and never see the inside of a Navy ship but f you're an officer and are looking to command in the Navy, you need to be a line officer and these jobs you speak of do not fall into that category. Robinson was given a staff position in an engineering role for the two years he was active/reserved status. From what I read, he was two inches over the height restriction when he applied but special consideration was given to him both upon his application and throughout his military career. WikiP says he thought about leaving due to his height and the fact atht he and the Academy Director wasn't sure he'd be commissioned. Don't get me wrong, he is an outstanding individual, both academically and in his sport. The Navy obviously saw this as a major marketing opportunity and the fact tat the Secretary of the Navy was involved in helping him, helping the Navy backs that up. Ask your 'across the hal'l engineer how staff officers wanting to move up in rank would take line positions on ships that had nothing to do with their real job just so they could get promoted. Lt. JG is just above Ensign in the Navy and in reality, doesn't carry much weight out in the field. Sure, they are officers but....meh.

Anyway, a hockey player who has the grades, motivation and willingness to sacrifice a few years of their lives defending this country has my respect and is more than welcome to play at Army or Air Force. Which by the way, has a 100 % lower tuition cost than any other hockey college in the US

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

There are many Navy jobs that are critical and never see the inside of a Navy ship but f you're an officer and are looking to command in the Navy, you need to be a line officer and these jobs you speak of do not fall into that category. Robinson was given a staff position in an engineering role for the two years he was active/reserved status. From what I read, he was two inches over the height restriction when he applied but special consideration was given to him both upon his application and throughout his military career. WikiP says he thought about leaving due to his height and the fact atht he and the Academy Director wasn't sure he'd be commissioned. Don't get me wrong, he is an outstanding individual, both academically and in his sport. The Navy obviously saw this as a major marketing opportunity and the fact tat the Secretary of the Navy was involved in helping him, helping the Navy backs that up. Ask your 'across the hal'l engineer how staff officers wanting to move up in rank would take line positions on ships that had nothing to do with their real job just so they could get promoted. Lt. JG is just above Ensign in the Navy and in reality, doesn't carry much weight out in the field. Sure, they are officers but....meh.

Anyway, a hockey player who has the grades, motivation and willingness to sacrifice a few years of their lives defending this country has my respect and is more than welcome to play at Army or Air Force. Which by the way, has a 100 % lower tuition cost than any other hockey college in the US

Oh, right, I was just pointing out that if he couldn't be an athlete, David Robinson was still accomplished academically for a good job in the field of Math for the Navy, one calling for a college/academy education and ergo, an officer's rank. A Mathematician job would have rendered his height a moot point anyway since it's an HQ job. No he probably couldn't have gotten to be a Commander or Captain on a ship but who knows what his goals were, certainly he could have served for 4-6 years after graduation honorably as an Lt at HQ then entered the private sector.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

Actually, you do if you are a US Citizen. The Academy's do take International Students but hey are sponsored by their home countries and approved for admission to the academies. Renda happens to be from Montreal but holds dual citizenship (Canadian/US) so I'm not sure where the sponsorship came from.

Ok, I stand corrected. So he's American, and got sponsored by Senator Sanders. Makes sense, Vermont and Quebec border each other.

 

[jericho]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

According to earlier posts, Union could have added scholarships, but chose not to do so, whereas RIT was too late to Div 1 to add scholarships, unless I misread those posts.

You are correct. Prop 65 and the appropriate amendment was passed in 2004. The proposal would have prevented DIII schools that "play up" in other sports from offering scholarships in those sports. An amendment was passed that grandfathered in some schools that play DI sports, such as RPI, Clarkson, SLU, Colorado College and Johns Hopkins in lacrosse, among others. The proposal itself passed by a large margin, and RIT decided to elevate their program after, so they are prevented from offering athletic scholarships in hockey. Union voted for the proposal and against the amendment, but of course they give "need-based aid," (read: if you play hockey, you need it)

http://www.uscho.com/2004/01/12/scholarships-will-continue-for-diii-play-up-schools/

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: AHA Ups Scholarship Limit to 18

You are correct. Prop 65 and the appropriate amendment was passed in 2004. The proposal would have prevented DIII schools that "play up" in other sports from offering scholarships in those sports. An amendment was passed that grandfathered in some schools that play DI sports, such as RPI, Clarkson, SLU, Colorado College and Johns Hopkins in lacrosse, among others. The proposal itself passed by a large margin, and RIT decided to elevate their program after, so they are prevented from offering athletic scholarships in hockey. Union voted for the proposal and against the amendment, but of course they give "need-based aid," (read: if you play hockey, you need it)

http://www.uscho.com/2004/01/12/scholarships-will-continue-for-diii-play-up-schools/

If you read the article, I was correct about Union, they've never been able to offer scholarships.