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A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
- Thread starter FreshFish
- Start date
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Uscho is the no spin zone
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Who cares? He's not running for re-election. If I were you (and thankfully I'm not) I'd be checking out those Hillary vs the GOP field polls. Think Ted Cruz is going to save you?
Who cares? He's not running for re-election. If I were you (and thankfully I'm not) I'd be checking out those Hillary vs the GOP field polls. Think Ted Cruz is going to save you?
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Here's my take, FWIW. For the first two years Obama tried sincerely to work with the Republicans, and they gave him the finger. After the 2010 midterm he figured out that was never going to change -- the GOP had set defeating him as their sole raison d'etre and so even those Members who might have been inclined to work with him were forbidden by the party leadership or their own constituents to do so. Since then he has returned their middle finger with his own.
The GOP is no longer a governing body, it's an affiliation of saboteurs. They can't be reasoned with -- some people just want to watch the world burn. So Obama has pivoted from being Charlie Brown with the football to being a matador with a cape. He can always depend on ODS frothing up from the base and the TP Members, so he uses this to help the GOP make themselves look like fools (not that they need much help). That's purely politics, but in his defense they left him with no other option. He took the high road for two years, got creamed, then wised up. There's no way to win an argument with a room full of infants.
Here's my take, FWIW. For the first two years Obama tried sincerely to work with the Republicans, and they gave him the finger. After the 2010 midterm he figured out that was never going to change -- the GOP had set defeating him as their sole raison d'etre and so even those Members who might have been inclined to work with him were forbidden by the party leadership or their own constituents to do so. Since then he has returned their middle finger with his own.
The GOP is no longer a governing body, it's an affiliation of saboteurs. They can't be reasoned with -- some people just want to watch the world burn. So Obama has pivoted from being Charlie Brown with the football to being a matador with a cape. He can always depend on ODS frothing up from the base and the TP Members, so he uses this to help the GOP make themselves look like fools (not that they need much help). That's purely politics, but in his defense they left him with no other option. He took the high road for two years, got creamed, then wised up. There's no way to win an argument with a room full of infants.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Fiscal "conservative": someone who spends just as much as a liberal, but refuses to pay for it.
Since the only choice is tax and spend vs borrow and spend, give me tax and spend.
Fiscal "conservative": someone who spends just as much as a liberal, but refuses to pay for it.
Since the only choice is tax and spend vs borrow and spend, give me tax and spend.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
This post, in a nutshell, is probably the main reason I can't vote for anyone with an R after their name this election cycle. I just can't take it anymore. I'd rather have SOME progress (even if I don't agree with all of it) than watching Congress throw feces at one another. It's time the GOP gets slapped hard to wakeup and drop the derp.
(Also, I loved the Charlie Brown ---> matador line. That was some nice imagery.)
This post, in a nutshell, is probably the main reason I can't vote for anyone with an R after their name this election cycle. I just can't take it anymore. I'd rather have SOME progress (even if I don't agree with all of it) than watching Congress throw feces at one another. It's time the GOP gets slapped hard to wakeup and drop the derp.
(Also, I loved the Charlie Brown ---> matador line. That was some nice imagery.)
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
I think Obama will be remembered as:
1. The first black president
2. The guy who got health care out of the think tanks and into legislation
3. The guy who presided over the successful but lengthy detoxification of the financial crisis
His presidency is the start of a hinge period where the big division of the last 50 years, white religious conservatives vs the rest of the country, begins to wind down to be replaced by the big political division of the next 50 years, which we don't know yet and may not realize until we're a decade into it. I dunno, maybe water states vs dry states. It's going to be something that's obvious in retrospect but not at all clear right now.
I think they'll give him a B, note in passing that he had a terrible Congress (both parties) with no talented leadership (both parties) and that the recession severely limited what he could do.
I think Obama will be remembered as:
1. The first black president
2. The guy who got health care out of the think tanks and into legislation
3. The guy who presided over the successful but lengthy detoxification of the financial crisis
His presidency is the start of a hinge period where the big division of the last 50 years, white religious conservatives vs the rest of the country, begins to wind down to be replaced by the big political division of the next 50 years, which we don't know yet and may not realize until we're a decade into it. I dunno, maybe water states vs dry states. It's going to be something that's obvious in retrospect but not at all clear right now.
I think they'll give him a B, note in passing that he had a terrible Congress (both parties) with no talented leadership (both parties) and that the recession severely limited what he could do.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Mitch McConnell's entire reason for being was to make Obama a one term President. It was summarily rejected. The GOP's response to that was to double down and now Mitch McConnell is in the fight of his life to hold his seat. A seat that no one in their right mind would think could be up for grabs.
The majority leader of the House got primaried this cycle by a Tea Party Derp specialist.
Anyone who votes for those clowns is locked into a 1950's brain time warp.
Mitch McConnell's entire reason for being was to make Obama a one term President. It was summarily rejected. The GOP's response to that was to double down and now Mitch McConnell is in the fight of his life to hold his seat. A seat that no one in their right mind would think could be up for grabs.
The majority leader of the House got primaried this cycle by a Tea Party Derp specialist.
Anyone who votes for those clowns is locked into a 1950's brain time warp.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Long term the thing he'll most be remembered for is that he shifted this country's ride to fiscal ruin into the next higher gear. When that comes to fruition everything else will be footnotes.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Obama expected the Republicans to largely do what he wanted them to do, and when they didn't, he seemed genuinely surprised, and offended. He's always had a naivete that he knows what should be done and anyone opposing him is inherently wrong and bad and shouldn't oppose him. It's easy to trumpet that on the campaign trail, but it doesn't work so well when you try to govern that way.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
And here it is. The poster child for fiscal conservatism.
And here it is. The poster child for fiscal conservatism.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
To be fair, at some point we're going to have to come to grips with our spending. The national debt can has been kicked down the road so many times that it's turning into a real monster. Add that to Social Security, Medicare, and defense... Not to mention our infrastructure is going to need an Apollo-like program to bring it into the 21st century. We're looking at some rather gloom predictions 15-30 years from now.
To be fair, at some point we're going to have to come to grips with our spending. The national debt can has been kicked down the road so many times that it's turning into a real monster. Add that to Social Security, Medicare, and defense... Not to mention our infrastructure is going to need an Apollo-like program to bring it into the 21st century. We're looking at some rather gloom predictions 15-30 years from now.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
So, when this nation is in financial ruin, you think people will bother debating the fine points of a health care plan that can't be funded? Keep your head stuck in the ground.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
The Health Care plan is the most funded piece of legislation passed in the last two administrations.
Try again.
The Health Care plan is the most funded piece of legislation passed in the last two administrations.
Try again.
unofan
Well-known member
Yeah, how dare the deficit shrink every year since Obama took office. That will lead us to financial ruin, I tell you. We need more people who will do the opposite. Those are true fiscal conservatives.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
You always throw this out, and can never defend it. How exactly has Obama thrown the fiscal ruin up a notch compared to where it was when he took office?
You always throw this out, and can never defend it. How exactly has Obama thrown the fiscal ruin up a notch compared to where it was when he took office?
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
That was The Plan: you stop collecting tax revenue from the top down and let the country go bankrupt. The GOP basically performed a leveraged buyout on the country, funding the tax holiday they gave their donors with debt that would then cripple government services later. Bush's wars were the immediate cause of the 2006 collapse but the root cause was Republican tax policy that goes back to the 70s. They understood that even in the unlikely event the voters figured it out, they'd still have their money. A very nice crime.
That was The Plan: you stop collecting tax revenue from the top down and let the country go bankrupt. The GOP basically performed a leveraged buyout on the country, funding the tax holiday they gave their donors with debt that would then cripple government services later. Bush's wars were the immediate cause of the 2006 collapse but the root cause was Republican tax policy that goes back to the 70s. They understood that even in the unlikely event the voters figured it out, they'd still have their money. A very nice crime.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
several record-setting deficits in a row? nearly doubling the national debt? might those count? though I'm sure there is a glib explanation why those aren't his "fault", eh?
several record-setting deficits in a row? nearly doubling the national debt? might those count? though I'm sure there is a glib explanation why those aren't his "fault", eh?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Yeah, it had nothing to do with the fiscal genius and his near destruction of the economy in '08. A destruction he presided over after committing us to 2 trillion dollars in unfunded spending.
But, you're right. Obama was supposed to fix that all up in his first term. What a ****ing loser.
Yeah, it had nothing to do with the fiscal genius and his near destruction of the economy in '08. A destruction he presided over after committing us to 2 trillion dollars in unfunded spending.
But, you're right. Obama was supposed to fix that all up in his first term. What a ****ing loser.
Re: A Discussion of US Immigration Policy
Yes Fish Breath, inheriting an economy in free fall (financial crisis hit in 2008) and two unfunded wars kinda hurt the debt under his watch, which he's still managed to reduce. Now go back and tell us how you felt when the election returns rolled in on Election Night 2012, and you started crying worse than Ann Romney!
Yes Fish Breath, inheriting an economy in free fall (financial crisis hit in 2008) and two unfunded wars kinda hurt the debt under his watch, which he's still managed to reduce. Now go back and tell us how you felt when the election returns rolled in on Election Night 2012, and you started crying worse than Ann Romney!