5 dollar gas...are we ready?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

I've been politically conscious since Carter and EVERY president since then has announced each of the following amid great fanfare:

+ An Education policy
+ A Middle East policy
+ An Energy policy

So far, I've seen 5 x 3 = 15 "landmark" policies, all of which have been promised as "revolutionary," 12 of which have either changed nothing and 3 of which (all Dubya's) have made things significantly worse.

All I really want from Obama is a return to the radical politial decision to "not make things too much more terrible."

Bush didn't have an energy policy. A lack of one is what keeps this situation screwed up. If I remember right he had a secret meeting and told Dick that whatever his buddies want they can have.

As for the other two, yeah he royally forked up on both of those.

Oh, and just to add to my rant. Energy policy is economic and defense policy. The fact that we spend billions in Afghanistan and act like energy is an after thought in this country is stoopid and sad.

 

[SurfCityRed]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

The complete irony is that the people who whine the loudest about the high price of gas are usually anti-fossil fuel liberals who vote for politicians that promote policies which limit oil production. Such limited production is the prime reason the price of gas is so high.

 

[unh_hockey]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Bringing back science doesn't mean bringing it back to the exclusion of others. it makes just as little sense to ignore economic or defense issues as it does to ignore the scientific ones.

What's the point of having the most efficient engineering system in the world if you kill the economy or ruin the environment in the process?

See what you do is hyperpolarize a point, than scrutinize those who take the other side of it. IF they believe in science to dictate energy policy, THAN you must assume that their solution is the dirtiest ever. I feel sad even arguing with you since you will inevitably beat me with your vast experience. I am not even sure you can/ try to understand the issues..you just argue semantics like any political type.

Credit to you, you have managed to hit 12,000 posts of mostly drivel. On behalf of most of us, thanks for painting a typical picture of the politician.

Edit: stop strawmanning. I never said economic condierations weren't important. You are a horrible debater. Get back on the short bus

 

[Kepler]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

The complete irony is that the people who whine the loudest about the high price of gas are usually anti-fossil fuel liberals who vote for politicians that promote policies which limit oil production. Such limited production is the prime reason the price of gas is so high.

Both of these statements are exactly false. (1) Whatever else their faults (bathing habits, etc), anti-fossil fuel liberals are in favor of higher oil and gas prices. In fact it's the straight-ticket "R" Hummer types who always whine the loudest about gas prices (even as they fail to make the connection between reliance on oil and dead troops, a lot of whom come from their own gung-ho districts) because the prices really ream them on their gas guzzlers. (2) Limited production has only a long-term effect on oil prices. The reason the price of gas is "so high" is short term speculation. (For that matter, gas prices aren't high at all. The only reason they seem high is we had a free ride extracting it and paying the locals zero for fifty years).

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

I was really enjoying this thread when it was discussing engineering topics. The politics and economics just annoy the **** out of me.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

All I know is, if I wanted to be stuck driving a Geo Metro for the rest of my life, I would have gone to Northern

 

[Kepler]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

See what you do is hyperpolarize a point, than scrutinize those who take the other side of it.

Are you new to the internet?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

All I know is, if I wanted to be stuck driving a Geo Metro for the rest of my life, I would have gone to Northern

Wait. Aren't they expensive? (It's a good line but I don't think it makes sense. I know; sorry.)

 

[unh_hockey]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

I was really enjoying this thread when it was discussing engineering topics. The politics and economics just annoy the **** out of me.

Agreed.

As I mentioned earlier, I would love to see the paper on the flow of gas prices at the pump as they relate to oil prices and speculation. It was posted on the ‘gas prices” thread back in 2008, but has not yet resurfaced.

In other news, I am most likely receiving an offer for a job I have been trying to get for a while. Its where I want to live so I will have a 1-2 mile commute, no exaggeration. No miles on my car, no filling up, and the pay is very good so add whatever fuel costs I would have spent on a 5 dollar / gal commute strait to the bank. Its one of the little things, but it all adds up! Riding my bike everywhere like in my pre teen days will boost my athleticism and my spare change!

 

[unh_hockey]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Are you new to the internet?

...you would think so....wouldn't you? hehe

 

[Almington]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

What the fark are you even talking about? hyperpolarizing? By simply stating that a national energy policy is not purely an engineering consideration?

What's freaking funny is that I'm not hating on the end goals in this thread, and find the actual technical discussion fascinating and informative. Yet because I think the messenger is less than perfect, I'm enemy number one.?

I'd argue that a national energy policy has nothing to do with engineering at all and is purely a political issue (with a side of economics thrown in).

We know what we can and can't do scientifically now and in the short term. We know what will happen in the future with regards to fossle fuels if we do nothing (supplies will fall short of current demand and prices will rise, most likely rise a lot).

It's clear that without a major technological breakthough that allows us to efficently capure and store solar energy any technological advancement will just be delaying the enevitable of having a major energy shortage.

The reason that the issue is political is that they MUST address demand in the US because all of the engineering tells us is that we are quickly approching a critical point where supply will not reach demand worldwide. The political and economic question is how do we make it so that the US has a long term plan and inferstructure in place to supply the expected domesticnenergy demand going forward. Engineering will tell us HOW we can do that, politics and economics will tell us WHAT we will actually do. Currently the politics and economics are telling us to sit on our hands and do nothing because making any changes towards a long term benefit would require hardship and sacrifice now.

I'm in favor of the US leaving every barrel of domestic oil that we can in the ground and importing as much as we can right now. That way we have a larger supply later when no one else will export oil. Oil will be used for many high end-value products as feedstocks until the last barrel is used even if we don't use it today to generate head and bury in landfills as plastic.

 

[Patman]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Agreed.

As I mentioned earlier, I would love to see the paper on the flow of gas prices at the pump as they relate to oil prices and speculation. It was posted on the ‘gas prices” thread back in 2008, but has not yet resurfaced.

In other news, I am most likely receiving an offer for a job I have been trying to get for a while. Its where I want to live so I will have a 1-2 mile commute, no exaggeration. No miles on my car, no filling up, and the pay is very good so add whatever fuel costs I would have spent on a 5 dollar / gal commute strait to the bank. Its one of the little things, but it all adds up! Riding my bike everywhere like in my pre teen days will boost my athleticism and my spare change!

you know, the most hilarious thing is that I'm the most green person in this thread unless somebody here lives in NYC and doesn't have a car... bow before me, please.

 

[omahasioux1]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

I would like to thank Obama and all his oil cronies. Bush left at a buck sixty nine.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Y'all are so cute - thinking that energy policy actually matters. The difference between "good" and "bad" energy policy might be another 50 years of our current, decadent, fossil-fuel driven lifestyle, tops. No matter how you slice it, 200 years from now, our lifestyles will look a whole lot more like 200 years ago than they look like today (but with email).

 

[Bakunin]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

200 years from now, our lifestyles will look a whole lot more like 200 years ago than they look like today (but with email).

Good thing we'll all be dead long before then.

 

[joecct]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Good thing we'll all be dead long before then.

And archeologists will be pouring over this thread trying to figure out what the heck we were talking about.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Y'all are so cute - thinking that energy policy actually matters. The difference between "good" and "bad" energy policy might be another 50 years of our current, decadent, fossil-fuel driven lifestyle, tops. No matter how you slice it, 200 years from now, our lifestyles will look a whole lot more like 200 years ago than they look like today (but with email).

And in 4-5 billion years the Sun will engulf the Earth. Both are irrelevant to the discussion were having here.

 

[joecct]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

you know, the most hilarious thing is that I'm the most green person in this thread unless somebody here lives in NYC and doesn't have a car... bow before me, please.

If I lived in NYC, no way would I own a car. If I needed one, ZipCar or something of that ilk. I drove one summer in NYC making deliveries/pickups for GHA with a VW Automatic with air conditioning. It was VERY interesting (37 years ago).

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Well, my "driving season" is here and I am really having to look at my budget... Right now, my Colorado is in the $70 range to fill up... Working High School baseball is certainly eating a good chunk of it's own profit with this... Right now, my games average about 30 extra miles in commuting, and I am working 3-4 games/week... I'm still coming out ahead on the deal as long as it's not a rain situation where I have to drive, but not get the game in... It's just a very noticeable difference in what I pocket...

Now the real bank breaker is going to be starting here in the next few weeks... I'm a very dedicated fisherman and I regularly fish Lake Michigan... May and early June see me fishing for Perch near downtown Chicago... That's about a 30-35 mile trip (one way) for me... In the past, I could easily burn an extra 1/2-3/4 of a tank per week if the bite is on... Once June rolls around and I start chasing cold water for Salmon, I am gonna put myself in the poor house... Those trips take me anywhere from Waukegan, IL up to Milwaukee, WI (60-120 miles one way)... It used to be that I wouldn't sleep during a good flip and would fish 2-3 nights in a row... Now, that same stretch can cost me $70+...

It's quite a sobering realization when I think about how I am used to doing this, and what reality is going to be this summer I am still going to fish, but just going on whims and not caring if I burn gas only to find unfavorable conditions isn't an option... I'm really going to have to do my homework with the weather and rely on the reports of others with this... It's going to take some work, that's for sure...

 

[unh_hockey]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Y'all are so cute - thinking that energy policy actually matters. The difference between "good" and "bad" energy policy might be another 50 years of our current, decadent, fossil-fuel driven lifestyle, tops. No matter how you slice it, 200 years from now, our lifestyles will look a whole lot more like 200 years ago than they look like today (but with email).

So a deleveraging of petrol/oil might also mean stagnation or a decline in population as well? People envision the future like something out of star trek, but I envision more like something in the wild west or like the book ‘canticle for liebowotz’. Imagine people thought of the 1990’s as the ‘good old days’ where flying and easy travel were accessible to the common person.

Cost me 50 to fill’r up this morning. I’d imagine those who are like that frog in boiling water are starting to notice on their day to day lives. Made me think, if anyone wants a 2000 to 3000 dollar raise this year, move closer to work

Patman- wasn’t trying to be prestigious. Just a bit excited that I’ll be close to work and where I want to live. However in NH, you have to drive to get anywhere so filling up once a week or so is probably still in the cards. Also im not the greenest person in here. I believe in nuclear, natural gas, and petrol ( okay not coal, but I don’t have an alternative for that =( )