33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

[ARM]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

I am saying that it appears to me that the change on the women's side is a product of a sense of paternalism towards the women, an unwillingness on the part of HEA to expend the time and resources on the women's game, or both. I think the arguments made for the change to shoot outs, ie injuries and/ or late games are simply an excuse, imo, because I don't think the same standard would be applied to the men in the same situation. It's simply a convenient excuse to do less, imo.

Is it paternalism, or is it a case of the women's rivalries and the Women's Beanpot in general just having not yet reached the same competitive level as that of the men? Even in men's hockey, most of the holiday tournaments use a shootout format, because nobody cares enough about the tournament title to risk the possibility of playing an RPI and Quinnipiac style 5-OT game. Come March, does anybody remember who won some "holiday classic" sponsored by Dodge or Easton? Apparently, there is enough tradition associated with the men's Beanpot that they are willing to take the risk of playing 3 games worth of minutes in a single contest for what is fundamentally just another regular season game. Is the Beanpot as important on the women's side? As recently as the last decade, there were years where the field was Harvard and 3 mediocre to bad teams. This is the first year that I can remember where all four were in the top 10 or on the fringes. Maybe if the presitge of the event increases, then everyone will be more willing to chance a marathon day of hockey as is done in postseason tournaments.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Is it paternalism, or is it a case of the women's rivalries and the Women's Beanpot in general just having not yet reached the same competitive level as that of the men? Even in men's hockey, most of the holiday tournaments use a shootout format, because nobody cares enough about the tournament title to risk the possibility of playing an RPI and Quinnipiac style 5-OT game. Come March, does anybody remember who won some "holiday classic" sponsored by Dodge or Easton? Apparently, there is enough tradition associated with the men's Beanpot that they are willing to take the risk of playing 3 games worth of minutes in a single contest for what is fundamentally just another regular season game.

Exactly what I was trying to say, and my eventual conclusion. My initial reaction last season was more like freak's. I trust the coaches to do what's best for the players and the coaches. If freak was right in the sense that the league was skimping on resources in a way that went against the coach's will, then I would have more of a problem with it.

This is the first year that I can remember where all four were in the top 10 or on the fringes. Maybe if the presitge of the event increases, then everyone will be more willing to chance a marathon day of hockey as is done in postseason tournaments.

Yeah, I suppose so. BU was club until middle of last-decade. Northeastern was lousy from 04-05 until 07-08. BC was weak last season. Maybe 08-09 was the best previous year in terms of all teams being balanced -- they started 5-0-2 and I think earned a top 10 ranking then but were in a slump by the time the Beanpot came around.

I don't think it's realistic though to expect that all four teams will be going strong every season. I think the last 3 years or so are a good representation of what we'll expect going forward. Even in years with 2 really good teams, whether it be Harvard-Northeastern or more recently Harvard-BC, those games were still pretty exciting and higher stakes than a typical regular season game. The games also have had huge NCAA implications more often than not.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Is it paternalism, or is it a case of the women's rivalries and the Women's Beanpot in general just having not yet reached the same competitive level as that of the men? ... As recently as the last decade, there were years where the field was Harvard and 3 mediocre to bad teams. This is the first year that I can remember where all four were in the top 10 or on the fringes. Maybe if the presitge of the event increases, then everyone will be more willing to chance a marathon day of hockey as is done in postseason tournaments.

Except for the first few years, until 2006 it was not competitive at all. If I recall correct all four were club teams the first tournament, with Harvard going varsity for 1979-80 and NU for 1980-81. BU and BC won their semifinal games in 1981, but was the last time either defeated NU or Harvard until 2003, when BC defeated Northeastern in the semifinals. In fact, since BU (until 2005-06) and BC (until 1994-95) remained club teams, from 1986 through 1992 the first round rotation was changed. BU and BC did not play each other, insuring that Harvard and NU would meet in the championship game each year. In 1993 BU withdrew and Brown was invited to replace them. After Brown won the tournament they weren’t invited back and the other three teams played a round robin first round in 1994. BU rejoined in 1995, and with BC becoming varsity starting in 1995-96 the standard rotation was restarted. Also, Northeastern was the dominate team from 1983 through 1998 and Harvard dominating since, but with BC challenging since 2006. What's surprising is the tournament survived its first three decades.

Sean

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Is it paternalism, or is it a case of the women's rivalries and the Women's Beanpot in general just having not yet reached the same competitive level as that of the men? Even in men's hockey, most of the holiday tournaments use a shootout format, because nobody cares enough about the tournament title to risk the possibility of playing an RPI and Quinnipiac style 5-OT game. Come March, does anybody remember who won some "holiday classic" sponsored by Dodge or Easton? Apparently, there is enough tradition associated with the men's Beanpot that they are willing to take the risk of playing 3 games worth of minutes in a single contest for what is fundamentally just another regular season game. Is the Beanpot as important on the women's side? As recently as the last decade, there were years where the field was Harvard and 3 mediocre to bad teams. This is the first year that I can remember where all four were in the top 10 or on the fringes. Maybe if the presitge of the event increases, then everyone will be more willing to chance a marathon day of hockey as is done in postseason tournaments.

Freak I agree with you 100%. It is an excuse to do less on women's side and it is especially patronizing to the women's game. Arm IMHO the degree of the rivalries is irrelevant. The only rivalry on the men's side is BU vs BC. People will care a lot less about the Northeastern BC game next Monday than they would have if it were BC vs BU. (I personally gave up tickets) I would also make the case that double or triple OT games would help fuel future rivalries as opposed to a shoot out on the women's side. With the obvious exception of the checking rule the women are forced to accept every rule change that men's game adopts in lock step, even the 2 ref and 2 linesman system. The women's game does not need 2 refs period. I agree with you Arm that nobody cares about a beanpot win come April but the rules for the men and women should mirror each other. The fact that these 4 teams are all near the top 10 makes the point. I'm not exactly sure how it works but I believe that the game in question goes down as a tie because it was decided in a shootout. How would an overtime loss be counted and or calulated in the rankings? (I'm asking because I don't know) Harvard could not afford another loss as it relates to the top 8. The comparison of a decade ago is a little irrelevant I think. Why not bring up Harvard and Northeastern on the Men's side as it relates to the Beanpot. Northeastern hasn't won the Beanpot since 88 and has won it only 5 times. For Harvard 4 of the last five years have been sub 500 without reaching 10 wins in the last 3 seasons and haven't won it since 93. Harvard and Northeastern have NEVER played for the title in the 59 years of the Beanpot.
Anyway as Bill Belichick says "It was it is"

 

[hockeyfan111]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

A potential new factor to the upcoming Beanpot Championship game between BC and Harvard is "stamina". I previously thought BC playing 6 games in 11 days was going to put them at a disadvantage should they advance to the Beanpot finals. Now I look at Harvard's schedule and see that not only do they play a similar amount of games, but Harvard plays their games away this weekend while BC is at home. Should the game be close in the 3rd period, I would keep this in mind; although when playing for that little piece of porcelan (or whatever it is made of), amazing things can be done.

 

[dave1381]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

I agree in the immediate future the women's Beanpot looks to be a lot more competitive than on the men's side.

In Beanpot games when there is only an overtime W or L, the W counts as a W, the L counts as an L, though I doubt this is a factor at all in the coaches' decision to go with a shootout. (I think an exception was in 1999 when they HU & NU played to a tie then Harvard won in OT, game counted as T in ECAC standings, W in overall) Not sure why you're focused on "Harvard can't afford an L." Harvard has a minuscule at best chance of an at-large berth, and their best chance to make it is to win the autobid. I don't think Katey Stone is feeling grateful they got a T instead of having to play out the overtime -- I don't think it matters much.

Right, not only is this upcoming weekend on the road for Harvard, it's the worst road trip of the year distance-wise. Well, from the Harvard perspective, you can't worry about whether this is fair or not, you just have to make the best of it, and hope this brutal stretch of games prepares them well for the postseason.

 

[Veritas]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Interesting reading comments about tickets and concessions. I have had season tickets to the Harvard women since they started selling tickets IIRC 8 years ago and have been to most home games since '87. Season tickets to the men for the past 30 years.

I write one check at the beginning of the season but I think tickets for the women go for $8.

For those who like concessions at women's hockey, come over to Bright Arena. Concessions open every game. Hot dogs, popcorn, nachos, tea, coffee.....

Oh yeah! I agree with those who do not like shootouts. Real hockey has sudden death until it's over.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

People will care a lot less about the Northeastern BC game next Monday than they would have if it were BC vs BU. (I personally gave up tickets)

I can vouch for this.....

But to me, the BC student body with their enthusiastic chanting and cheering put them just a couple of notches below the students at Cameron Indoor. I'd say about half the price of admission is worth it just for the fan experience.

This was only my second trip to a woman's beanpot, the first being a couple of years ago at Matthews. I thought it was a decent crowd, considering what Boston area women's hockey teams usually draw. With BC being in the final, any thoughts on how much greater the crowd might be at Conte this coming Tuesday?

 

[dave1381]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Anyone else here watching the final?

BC video appears to be free: http://bceagles.cstv.com/allaccess/?media=227633

1-1 at the first intermission.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Anyone else here watching the final?

BC video appears to be free: http://bceagles.cstv.com/allaccess/?media=227633

1-1 at the first intermission.

I was! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hockeyfan111]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

what a great team effort for BC to capture this year's women's beanpot championship. the several days of rest really showed as the eagles legs seemed lively again and were able to outplay and outscore harvard in the final period (rolling three lines also helped). according to the video announcer, this is the first time since 1980 that the same school has won both the men's and women's beanpot tournament. i'm sure there will be some bc ladies that will be late to class tomorrow. congrats on the championship and a terrific run thus far.

I was! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hux]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

I can vouch for this.....

But to me, the BC student body with their enthusiastic chanting and cheering put them just a couple of notches below the students at Cameron Indoor. I'd say about half the price of admission is worth it just for the fan experience.

This was only my second trip to a woman's beanpot, the first being a couple of years ago at Matthews. I thought it was a decent crowd, considering what Boston area women's hockey teams usually draw. With BC being in the final, any thoughts on how much greater the crowd might be at Conte this coming Tuesday?

The box score shows 702 for attendence. Pretty good turnout for a weeknight. Harvard alums tend to turnout pretty well, and I noticed quite a few BC students (including a fair amount of the men's hockey team) in the stands as well. I also noticed a number of families with younger kids...people I hadn't seen at games before. Last week there were a number of local high school teams present which, unfortunately, I didn't see for this week's event. With the proper marketing and the help of some timely exposure in the local press (such as the Herald article on Miss Gedman) I think they could easily top 1000 in the future.

 

[papulaisle]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Congratulations to BC. Is a great tournament. Can't thoink of the like elswhere. The name alone, "Beanpot"... Maybe only cod or minuteman or who knows what could be comparable. We in Connecticut are 'peripheral' Yankee only although for a while I played at being such and had a vanity plate, "2IFBYC". Could, DO...not hold a candle to, say, the ice hockey fans in and around Boston. I played college club hockey and we played industrial league teams even in the Lynne Arena, etc., (E-Yikes!) Many bloody lips-stitches. Rare one would venture there into the corner. Dartmouth club team, Hanover Storm Kings.

 

[WHKY blogger]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

The box score shows 702 for attendence.

702? That is a **** poor turnout for an event where all four participants are within the greater metro area..

If each team had 702 fans that may be acceptable if they all stayed for both games.. come on now.. We do better than that for our 2pm Friday games in Madison..

Is the ladies beanpot not promoted or something...

I would be totally ashamed to be proud of a crowd that featured 702 fans with three ranked teams that all traveled less than 30mins to participate in the event!

Where is your pride and outrage!!!

 

[Sean Pickett]

Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

The box score shows 702 for attendence. Pretty good turnout for a weeknight. Harvard alums tend to turnout pretty well, and I noticed quite a few BC students (including a fair amount of the men's hockey team) in the stands as well. I also noticed a number of families with younger kids...people I hadn't seen at games before. Last week there were a number of local high school teams present which, unfortunately, I didn't see for this week's event. With the proper marketing and the help of some timely exposure in the local press (such as the Herald article on Miss Gedman) I think they could easily top 1000 in the future.

Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

2011 – 702 – Harvard at BC
2010 – 1623 – NU at Harvard
2009 – 623 – BC vs Harvard at NU
2008 – 1109 – Harvard at BU
2007 – 961 – BU at BC
2006 – 721 – BC at Harvard

This year’s attendance is the second worst since BU became varsity and worst for a home team in the championship game.

Sean

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

Re: Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

Is the ladies beanpot not promoted or something...

This.

Also, it's just a different deal out here. It's like us being shocked if all of the Minnesota Twins games didn't sell out game after game like the Red Sox.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

Re: Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

Beanpot Championship Attendance Since 2006

2011 – 702 – Harvard at BC
2010 – 1623 – NU at Harvard
2009 – 623 – BC vs Harvard at NU
2008 – 1109 – Harvard at BU
2007 – 961 – BU at BC
2006 – 721 – BC at Harvard

This year’s attendance is the second worst since BU became varsity and worst for a home team in the championship game.

Sean

Just wondering if the final in the other years was also during the week and if so if it was held during the same time frame ?. For example some students might be busy with mid term exams, I know one of our D's is.

 

[Hux]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

702? That is a **** poor turnout for an event where all four participants are within the greater metro area..

If each team had 702 fans that may be acceptable if they all stayed for both games.. come on now.. We do better than that for our 2pm Friday games in Madison..

Is the ladies beanpot not promoted or something...I would be totally ashamed to be proud of a crowd that featured 702 fans with three ranked teams that all traveled less than 30mins to participate in the event!

Where is your pride and outrage!!!

You seem to forget that in the city of Boston pro sports takes top billing. In the greater Boston area there are some 260 colleges and universities. Allegiances are spread like butter on a piece of bread 10 feet wide. The students who attend these schools, are for the most part, oblivious to anything but the marque sport (if that). At BC that is ACC Football or Men's hoop. BU is men's hockey, Northeastern is men's hockey, Harvard is Ivy League football. If given the choice, most will head into the city and bar hop before they consider attending a sporting event...let alone a women's sporting event.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

We do better than that for our 2pm Friday games in Madison.

Boston is not Madison. Tons of things to do in bean town for all ages and interests.
(Heck there is more coverage for whoopie pies than for womens hockey )

You see the same phenomina in Canada. Womens Hockey in the GTA is barely noticed by the masses, whether it be PWHL, NWHL, CWHL or CIS. Go out to the prairies and the local girls teams are part of the mainline sports news in many of the communities.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: 33rd Annual Women's Beanpot?

Meanwhile, in Erie where there are only a couple of minor league sports teams, I have it on word directly from the Frozen Four Tournament Director of Sports Marketing that they have already sold 3,000 tickets with close to another thousand reserved for the NCAA. The venue only holds about 5,600 and so the chance of a sellout is becoming very realistic.