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2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

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Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Rover said:
It definitely worked in your case. Your posts couldn't get any dumber if you tried! :D
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As opposed to your ignorant drivel, which if I wanted to read I could just walk down to the corner news stand?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

FlagDUDE08 said:
We're on to your agenda, whether communist, socialist, fascist, or whatever you want to call it today. You are an enemy of freedom.
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You just never got over that boogeyman in the closet did you, Flag?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

The Giant Pink Snorklewacker terrifies Flaggy, but it is also his Moby Dick.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

This is an excellent piece on how Obama and the Democrats keep winning despite Republican majorities in both Chambers.

Money quote:

As for Boehner, we can say that, in the end, he put his country over his party at a time when he could simply have walked away without making any kind of deal. And Paul Ryan? He'll soon find out what it's like to lead a group where one faction, when given a choice between half a loaf and none, decides to blow up the oven.
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Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Rover said:
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/22/gods_plan_these_gop_candidates_claim_the_almighty_wants_them_to_run/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...he-gop-god-can-t-pick-a-campaign-winner.html#

Saying "I pray to God that I'm making the right decision" is different than the Lord is guiding my campaign. How, Bob, would any mortal know that?
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By understanding the English language?

I notice you're also changing the wording now, talking about "the Lord guiding my campaign" instead of this endorsement nonsense.

And those links just confirm my original point that people aren't saying God endorses them. Just more message board misinformation.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Kepler said:
Saying "I pray to God that I'm making the right decision" has a double-meaning. To normal people it says "When making decisions I keep in mind we are all fallible, and I do the best I can." But to people who fervently believe in literalism and the effective power of prayer it can mean you're dialing for divine inspiration.

Politics is the ability, when confronted by two people who violently disagree with each other, to be able to say words that each person goes away thinking "that guy's on my side." The "I'll pray on it" gambit is one of the most popular ploys -- it plays to sell out crowds among the hyper-faithful, and nobody else takes it as anything more than a meaningless expression.
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I agree with your first part that a phrase in common usage can mean different things to different people and everybody can be meaning it in good faith. Another example is "Amazing Grace" is played at times in public forums and to believers it has an obvious certain meaning but my understanding is that even to a lot of non-believers it has entered into common usage as a song that is played at times of national mourning and such and for them it doesn't have the overt religious meaning it does to a believer (I've heard this from non-believers, but correct me if I'm wrong on this point).

In going back to responding to Rover's misguided claim about candidates claiming Almighty endorsement, this is a side trail though, as in that case we're talking about what that individual would mean, not what someone else would mean in saying such things (if someone actually ever said such a thing, which I have every reason to doubt).
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Bob Gray said:
I agree with your first part that a phrase in common usage can mean different things to different people and everybody can be meaning it in good faith. Another example is "Amazing Grace" is played at times in public forums and to believers it has an obvious certain meaning but my understanding is that even to a lot of non-believers it has entered into common usage as a song that is played at times of national mourning and such and for them it doesn't have the overt religious meaning it does to a believer (I've heard this from non-believers, but correct me if I'm wrong on this point).
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As the National Spokesman for Non-Believers, USCHO Chapter: spirituals, Gospel songs, and the like are able to have a strongly positive connotation for we non-believers without still losing their identification as, at heart, religious exhortations. When I hear these songs, or listen to Bach, or see Chartres cathedral, it is always in my mind that they are powerful religious symbols. That doesn't devalue them as great works of passion and intelligence. I don't see them "without religion." Because all people have deeply profound "spiritual" experiences, we can all understand and give ourselves over to the very best examples of humans trying to be transcendent. We can all feel that power and appreciate it. You don't have to worship Athena and Apollo to understand Aeschylus.

The "facts" of faith -- who was born of a virgin, who rose from the dead, who dove down to the bottom of the ocean, who was born from whose head -- are just hem lines. The essence of faith -- identification with, celebration of, and striving towards perfection, peace, love, justice -- is shared by every human being, so we all can nod approvingly when somebody hits the nail on the head. Their particular path to that creation is just one of many ladders we each climb to meet "up there."

That's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Kepler said:
Because all people have deeply profound "spiritual" experiences...
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Uh, no we all don't.

...We can all feel that power and appreciate it. You don't have to worship Athena and Apollo to understand Aeschylus.

The "facts" of faith -- who was born of a virgin, who rose from the dead, who dove down to the bottom of the ocean, who was born from whose head -- are just hem lines. The essence of faith -- identification with, celebration of, and striving towards perfection, peace, love, justice -- is shared by every human being, so we all can nod approvingly when somebody hits the nail on the head. Their particular path to that creation is just one of many ladders we each climb to meet "up there."

That's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.
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I can agree with most of this, a little nitpicking might be done if pressed, but that the gist of it from my perspective.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

St. Clown said:
Uh, no we all don't.
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I think you're reacting against a word. Let's say we all have experiences of such overwhelming joy and wonder that we leave ourselves and see the whole universe as an integrated experience. That doesn't mean we ascribe any meaning to magical thinking. It just means we are more than accountants.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Kepler said:
As the National Spokesman for Non-Believers, USCHO Chapter: spirituals, Gospel songs, and the like are able to have a strongly positive connotation for we non-believers without still losing their identification as, at heart, religious exhortations. When I hear these songs, or listen to Bach, or see Chartres cathedral, it is always in my mind that they are powerful religious symbols. That doesn't devalue them as great works of passion and intelligence. I don't see them "without religion." Because all people have deeply profound "spiritual" experiences, we can all understand and give ourselves over to the very best examples of humans trying to be transcendent. We can all feel that power and appreciate it. You don't have to worship Athena and Apollo to understand Aeschylus.
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It's similar to "Dixie". Even Abe Lincoln, after four years of war, loved it and had it played as part of the national healing process.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
It's similar to "Dixie". Even Abe Lincoln, after four years of war, loved it and had it played as part of the national healing process.
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I suppose. I'm old, but I'm not that old, and "Dixie" has always seemed like a celebration of slave-holding buffoons to me.

Then again, "Deutschlandlied" and "The Internationale" are awesome songs -- probably the best two anthems ever written -- and it would be a shame if Hitler and Stalin ruined them forever, so I guess we give Decatur Dan a pass, too.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Kepler said:
I suppose. I'm old, but I'm not that old, and "Dixie" has always seemed like a celebration of slave-holding buffoons to me.

Then again, "Deutschlandlied" and "The Internationale" are awesome songs -- probably the best two anthems ever written -- and it would be a shame if Hitler and Stalin ruined them forever, so I guess we give Decatur Dan a pass, too.
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Remember that the German anthem was originally the Austrian Anthem to honor the Emperor of Austria-Hungary. And, while the Internationale is OK (started in France, remember), the Soviet/Russian anthem is one of the better martial anthems around.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

New GHW Bush autobiography sheds a bit more light on the W administration and kinda validates the extreme to which things went vis a vis the older Bush. A couple of key quotes:

Of Cheney, who was a member of the elder Bush's cabinet, Bush said, "He just became very hard-line and very different from the Dick Cheney I knew and worked with."

Bush said he thinks the Sept. 11 attacks changed the vice president, making him more hawkish about the use of U.S. military force abroad.

"His seeming knuckling under to the real hard-charging guys who want to fight about everything, use force to get our way in the Middle East," Bush said.

Talking about Rumsfeld, the elder Bush used stronger, more personal criticism, the newspaper reported.

"I think he served the president badly. I don't like what he did, and I think it hurt the president having his iron-*** view of everything," Bush said.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

5mn_Major said:
New GHW Bush autobiography sheds a bit more light on the W administration and kinda validates the extreme to which things went vis a vis the older Bush. A couple of key quotes:

Of Cheney, who was a member of the elder Bush's cabinet, Bush said, "He just became very hard-line and very different from the Dick Cheney I knew and worked with."

Bush said he thinks the Sept. 11 attacks changed the vice president, making him more hawkish about the use of U.S. military force abroad.

"His seeming knuckling under to the real hard-charging guys who want to fight about everything, use force to get our way in the Middle East," Bush said.

Talking about Rumsfeld, the elder Bush used stronger, more personal criticism, the newspaper reported.

"I think he served the president badly. I don't like what he did, and I think it hurt the president having his iron-*** view of everything," Bush said.
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I read that, and a lot of it comes across as, "Blame his advisors, not the man in charge - do not blame my son!"
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

St. Clown said:
I read that, and a lot of it comes across as, "Blame his advisors, not the man in charge - do not blame my son!"
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As with Jeb's comment abut Iraq, it's obvious that the Bush clan sees the world as divided between them and everybody else. The rest of us are only here to serve their needs.
 
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