2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

[French Rage]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Give me your tired, your poor, your... ah, f-ck it.

To some that's a feature, not a bug.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Give me your tired, your poor, your... ah, f-ck it.

As long as he doesn't go near the World Cup construction sites, he'll be fine.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

If we're voting, I'd say unofan has one of the best senses of humor in the board.

Don't agree, but he totally missed this one from what I can tell from the response to him. Or maybe he's clueless about cultural references like Duck Dynasty. The horror of not getting someone's references! The horror!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Interesting quote from Nikita Khrushchev.
"We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism, until they suddenly awake to find they have communism."


And yes, to head off this question, when I say I think it's interesting, I mean I think it's interesting.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

A long but excellent synopsis of the rise and fall of the Republican coalition.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

A long but excellent synopsis of the rise and fall of the Republican coalition.

A Republican lobbyist of my acquaintance whose corporate client has been caught in the middle of the political disturbances shared a provocative insight. “I finally figured it out,” he told me. “Obama created the Tea Party.” I laughed at first, but he explained what he meant. “We told people that Obama was a dangerous socialist who was going to wreck America and he had to be stopped, when really we knew he was a moderate Democrat, not all that radical,” the lobbyist said. “But they believed us.”

Republican lobbyist nails it.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

A long but excellent synopsis of the rise and fall of the Republican coalition.

Wow. This would have been a fascinating read in book form where the author could go into greater detail. Fascinating stuff.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

With Benghazi dead and the Emails dying, the GOP could use some good news about how their other fake scandals are faring.

This is not that news.

But hey, I'm sure Fast and Furious or Solyndra will bring down the administration any day now.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

A long but excellent synopsis of the rise and fall of the Republican coalition.

So here's a question I have. Is the Democratic party at risk of having the same occur? Haven't the power brokers of both parties taken advantage of certain constituencies with a mix of broken promises and belief those voters really have nowhere else to go? At what point do African Americans start asking exactly what the Democrats have done for them in exchange for their 90% loyalty, even when a black president has been elected?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

So here's a question I have. Is the Democratic party at risk of having the same occur? Haven't the power brokers of both parties taken advantage of certain constituencies with a mix of broken promises and belief those voters really have nowhere else to go? At what point do African Americans start asking exactly what the Democrats have done for them in exchange for their 90% loyalty, even when a black president has been elected?

Fair question. Blacks would probably be leaving the Democratic coalition already if they had anywhere to go, but obviously, right now, they don't -- when the Dixiecrats migrated to the GOP they brought their virulent racism with them.

Still, blacks are only about 15% of the Democratic coalition. The better question is: when do the poor start holding Democrats accountable for sitting passively while conservatives destroyed the American Dream and pushed inequality and poverty through the roof, even during times when Dems held the presidency and/or Congress? Look at how much damage, er, influence the social conservatives have been responsible for via the GOP, while the poor, who have similar numbers relative to the Democrats, have gotten nothing. But again, they have nowhere to go -- at the same time the Democrats shifted from a working class to a middle class party, the Republicans shifted from a middle class to an upper class party, albeit one with useful idiots among the rural poor who vote to slash their own throats in return for a religious head fake.

In each case, a sizeable chunk of the Demcoratic coalition could be up for grabs, but in each case the Republicans can't be the beneficiary unless they change so fundamentally that you'd almost not even call them the same party anymore.

A socially conservative, economically progressive working class third party would draw heavily from both parties. You can see people like Huckabee feeling blindly around, trying to get something like that off the ground, but so far the big two have managed to keep their strangleholds. Such a party could also be heavily statist and of course jingoist and anti-immigrant and thus hijack a lot of the firepower that the Tea Party had. Sure, it would be repellent, but we're already seeing in Europe how recession is the ideal Petri dish for racial parties. A younger, less isolationist Pat Buchanan could do some serious damage with that.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Fair question. Blacks would probably be leaving the Democratic coalition already if they had anywhere to go, but obviously, right now, they don't -- when the Dixiecrats migrated to the GOP they brought their virulent racism with them.

Still, blacks are only about 15% of the Democratic coalition. The better question is: when do the poor start holding Democrats accountable for sitting passively while conservatives destroyed the American Dream and pushed inequality and poverty through the roof, even during times when Dems held the presidency and/or Congress? Look at how much damage, er, influence the social conservatives have been responsible for via the GOP, while the poor, who have similar numbers relative to the Democrats, have gotten nothing. But again, they have nowhere to go -- at the same time the Democrats shifted from a working class to a middle class party, the Republicans shifted from a middle class to an upper class party, albeit one with useful idiots among the rural poor who vote to slash their own throats in return for a religious head fake.

In each case, a sizeable chunk of the Demcoratic coalition could be up for grabs, but in each case the Republicans can't be the beneficiary unless they change so fundamentally that you'd almost not even call them the same party anymore.

A socially conservative, economically progressive working class third party would draw heavily from both parties. You can see people like Huckabee feeling blindly around, trying to get something like that off the ground, but so far the big two have managed to keep their strangleholds. Such a party could also be heavily statist and of course jingoist and anti-immigrant and thus hijack a lot of the firepower that the Tea Party had. Sure, it would be repellent, but we're already seeing in Europe how recession is the ideal Petri dish for racial parties. A younger, less isolationist Pat Buchanan could do some serious damage with that.

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

Oh, really?

DOMA for one. Hundreds of abortion restrictions across the country. Gay marriage bans in numerous states. Shutdowns of Abortion Clinics in numerous locations across the US. Voter ID laws passed in numerous states.

I could go on.

You know, I can't help it that 99% of the **** you guys ask for is Unconstitutional.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I know this isn't the right thread but I'm posting this here in honor of some of our posters. It's just too friggin good.

http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/photos/24-pics-prove-ken-m-greatest-troll-internet

 

[burd]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

Social conservatives got the GOP to give Sarah Palin a platform. I would think they'd treasure that.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Social conservatives got the GOP to give Sarah Palin a platform. I would think they'd treasure that.

Most social conservatives (and people in general) didn't know Sarah Palin existed until she was nominated for VP.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

And social conservatives have gotten exactly what from the GOP over these many years? Squat. Interesting narrative, which has a vein of truth to it, but I had a hard time getting past that one about social conservatives and their purported influence.

We can disagree on the influence the social cons have had.

The main takeaway is that social conservatives and the urban poor could break away from the two major parties and have a shot at creating a major league third party. This hasn't happened so far because social conservatives haven't recognized that they can combine their social and economic interests, but if they ever do we're going to have a formidable populist party. You already see that rough beast slouching towards Washington during the GOP primaries. The mutual distrust and racism of both groups has so far polarized them, but if they ever make common cause against The System things get interesting.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I wish there was a cure for the Palin strain of derangement syndrome that is known to be particularly virulent among liberals, just so we wouldn't have to hear another peep out of that idiotic family.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I wish there was a cure for the Palin strain of derangement syndrome that is known to be particularly virulent among liberals, just so we wouldn't have to hear another peep out of that idiotic family.

Seriously, you never hear social conservatives bring her up as some sort of paragon of political reason anymore. They've heard too many stupid things when her lips part that they've tossed her to the side. Democrats run with it as though they think she still stands as a mouthpiece for social conservatives everywhere, and that's the only time you hear about her or her dysfunctional, redneck family.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Democrats run with it as though they think she still stands as a mouthpiece for social conservatives everywhere, and that's the only time you hear about her or her dysfunctional, redneck family.

We've got Ben Carson now, thank you very much!

Regarding 3rd parties, social conservatism and economic populism don't mix. One isn't interested in the other. Economic populism = wealth transfers. Social conservatism = everybody for themselves. For someone dedicated to ending abortion, the notion that better social spending might mitigate the need for abortions falls on deaf ears. They'd rather see tangible evidence of success like closing down clinics.

Its like libertarianism. At face value it sounds plausible, and why aren't more people embracing it? They aren't because when you do a deeper dive either 1) the libertarians themselves aren't practicing what they preach, or 2) the whole thing is unrealistic.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Social conservatism = everybody for themselves

Not at all. Social conservatism is inherently communal (one reason why there's so much pressure to conform to norms). The marriage of social conservatism to laissez faire economics was a shot gun wedding -- it's artificial and forever at risk of falling apart. Part of why the GOP has to constantly enrage and terrify their captives with a parade of racial and sexual horribles is that without those threats the coalition would come apart. Social conservatives can read the Bible -- they know Jesus' message is that wealth is the dung of the devil and capitalism is un-Christian. It takes a lot of propaganda to keep them voting not only to slash their own throats, but also to defy Biblical prescriptions for kindness and generosity.