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2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

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Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Kepler said:
False choice. In this Republican environment, moderation is what requires courage. The emptiest pot makes the most noise when you struck.

The "radicals" on the far right are just playing their audience. Leadership would be finding solutions, not throwing bombs.
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Then explain why a radical Marxist is in the White House.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Now I have been a moderate fan of the president most of his terms. Of course Republicans have not been fans...but neither have many Dems. In the business thread, I posted a couple articles on how the US is on top and Obama could be back in the top quartile of presidents. I think its almost too late in his presidency to consider him anything less than quite good.

Here's a solid overview on the Obama presidency (from Foreign Policy). While I think the author downplays his final assessment...I think you'll get the picture:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/29...ed-as-president-iran-charleston-gay-marriage/
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

5mn_Major said:
Now I have been a moderate fan of the president most of his terms. Of course Republicans have not been fans...but neither have many Dems. In the business thread, I posted a couple articles on how the US is on top and Obama could be back in the top quartile of presidents. I think its almost too late in his presidency to consider him anything less than quite good.

Here's a solid overview on the Obama presidency (from Foreign Policy). While I think the author downplays his final assessment...I think you'll get the picture:

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/06/29...ed-as-president-iran-charleston-gay-marriage/
Click to expand...

Of course "history" will judge him as that. Look who writes the books.

This guy is worse than Jimmy Carter. In fac,t Jimmy Carter looks pale compared to this Marxist hater of America.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Obama gets an A minus from me, assuming nothing dramatic happens in the next 1.5 years. That he managed to accomplish anything is amazing given the opposition party did literally nothing for 6 years other than try to destroy his presidency regardless of the collateral effect on the economy. He's been a great social "leader/follower." On race he's struck the right tone. On gays... well... he didn't stand in the way, anyway.

His big failing is on moral leadership on foreign policy. I get it -- that's not his priority, but it was a very important (IMO) campaign promise, and he could have done a lot more with executive orders. He stopped torture, which was huge, but really since then all he's done is the expedient and morally questionable strategy of droning the ef out of all the targets the intel community puts on his desk.

On the economy he's been excellent. And of course health care is his legacy -- that was providential in every sense of the word.

Much of Obama's best work simply comes in undoing the damage of the prior administration, and pretty much any Democratic president would have done the same. Hopefully we'll have a chance to compare Obama with Hillary in terms of their effectiveness. Hopefully the comparison will not be fair because Hillary will not face the Know Nothing Congress Obama has, but I wouldn't count on the latter -- I see no sign of the fever breaking on the right.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

That's a pretty good assessment and fair grade. I'd say not far from Clinton. Although I didn't followed him that much at the time, Clinton seemed to me to be even more passive especially in his second term.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Kepler said:
all he's done is the expedient and morally questionable strategy of droning the ef out of all the targets the intel community puts on his desk.
Click to expand...

Speaking of Clinton, I remember a lot of very similar complaints regarding his strategy of bombing Bosnia into smaller and smaller bits of rubble rather than sending in invasion forces. After it was settled (what was that guy's name, Milosevic?) he was widely praised for risking as few American lives as possible. Given the infectious nature of radical Islam (everywhere the blood from a drone strike gets splattered, a dozen more terrorist zombies pop up), I don't know if the current drone campaign has a potential positive end or not.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

5mn_Major said:
That's a pretty good assessment and fair grade. I'd say not far from Clinton. Although I didn't followed him that much at the time, Clinton seemed to me to be even more passive especially in his second term.
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I agree. I think Clinton seemed a little brighter a star at the time because he completely reversed the CW on a Democrat winning the White House. Clinton was a superior politician. Obama may have been the more effective bureaucrat, which is impressive, because Clinton was no slouch.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

geezer said:
Speaking of Clinton, I remember a lot of very similar complaints regarding his strategy of bombing Bosnia into smaller and smaller bits of rubble rather than sending in invasion forces. After it was settled (what was that guy's name, Milosevic?) he was widely praised for risking as few American lives as possible. Given the infectious nature of radical Islam (everywhere the blood from a drone strike gets splattered, a dozen more terrorist zombies pop up), I don't know if the current drone campaign has a potential positive end or not.
Click to expand...

The criticism of Clinton on Bosnia has been kept alive only by partisan hacks and radical minarchists. It got a quick revival when Clark ran for pres and people were trying to tarnish him.

We just don't know about the drones. On the one hand it seems obvious to me that every civilian we murder or maim creates ten more terrorists. This may indeed be the business plan -- we must fire missiles to need missiles. On the other hand, there's no effective way to get the host countries to do the job, invasion and occupation are a thousand times worse, and there is some real threat even if it's been wildly exaggerated for political and economic gain. I guess 50 years from now we'll know whether we are treading water or creating a world that views us as a rogue terrorist nation.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Here's the thing, slavery is bad. About as bad as it gets. However, you need to weigh that against the global strategy of controlling China.

If you don't read past the headline, this is horrible. If you read past the headline and look at it from a presidential perspective, it's not a clear cut choice.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

joecct said:
We've stopped it here, but it IS active in Africa and it would not surprise me if other 3rd world places still had it. Is it our business? Should it be our business?
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If you're going to ***** and whine about it, but do deals with other countries that do it in order to turn this country into a third world country, it's a bit hypocritical.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

dxmnkd316 said:
Here's the thing, slavery is bad. About as bad as it gets. However, you need to weigh that against the global strategy of controlling China.

If you don't read past the headline, this is horrible. If you read past the headline and look at it from a presidential perspective, it's not a clear cut choice.
Click to expand...

And yet, if I replace every instance of "Obama" with "Bush", you'd be crying holy hell.
 
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