2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

You are an optimist.

That's what comes of thinking "total depravity" means nothing outside of the upper deck at an Eagles game.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

But obviously there are some absolutist claims (prohibitions of murder and torture) where it's right for one view to impose itself on everybody.

This is what I've tried to explain so often...

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Absolutist claims aren't always absolutist. Take abortion, which some consider absolutist (murder), while others take a different view. I'm not trying to start an abortion debate, just that that's an example where even absolutist claims aren't cut and dried from a societal perspective. Or take torture and its implications post-9/11 and that debate. Just saying those aren't as neat and tidy as one might initially think.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Absolutist claims aren't always absolutist. Take abortion, which some consider absolutist (murder), while others take a different view. I'm not trying to start an abortion debate, just that that's an example where even absolutist claims aren't cut and dried from a societal perspective. Or take torture and its implications post-9/11 and that debate. Just saying those aren't as neat and tidy as one might initially think.

But I would argue that murder is an absolutist claim. The divergence isn't "sometimes murder is OK," it's "I think that's murder," "well, I don't." That's a key difference. On torture, I hope it's the same framing problem, because if there are people who say "that's torture and it's fine with me" they're either adolescent boys who have been watching too much 24 or they're sociopaths.

Nothing important is neat and tidy. Digging into the guts is the only way to get farther than the empty slogans, but, of course, the guts are really messy.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Key question is how one defines a vibrant public moral culture. Folks have widely varying definitions of that. Just noting that.

It starts with, "do unto others" and goes from there. Unfortunately, bigotry is just one the catalysts to pushing such ideals aside.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

But I would argue that murder is an absolutist claim. The divergence isn't "sometimes murder is OK," it's "I think that's murder," "well, I don't." That's a key difference. On torture, I hope it's the same framing problem, because if there are people who say "that's torture and it's fine with me" they're either adolescent boys who have been watching too much 24 or they're sociopaths.

Nothing important is neat and tidy. Digging into the guts is the only way to get farther than the empty slogans, but, of course, the guts are really messy.

That last part is all I was trying to point out.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

That last part is all I was trying to point out.

I think there's widespread agreement that there are no simple answers to complex problems.

"Life is pain, Princess. Anybody who tells you different is selling something."

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Gotta love South Carolina still flying the Confederate Flag. Good job, Whitie. Fight the good fight.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Gotta love South Carolina still flying the Confederate Flag. Good job, Whitie. Fight the good fight.

When "Malcolm X" came out I was living in NC, and the herpa-derps all had stars and bars bumper stickers that read "you keep your X, I'll keep mine."

Those people aint subtle.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Gotta love South Carolina still flying the Confederate Flag. Good job, Whitie. Fight the good fight.

I would love to watch the fireworks if someone tried to handle this Penn State-style. "Take the flag down, or we will."

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I've been lambasted on the board for repeating, "The only thing that stops a good guy with a gun is a bad guy with a gun." Well, here it is again.

• Charles Cotton, a member of the board of the National Rifle Association, engaged in a sick act of victim blaming. He said Clementa Pinkney, a pastor and state legislator who was gunned down in the church, “voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead. Innocent people died because of his position on a political issue.”

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...in-charleston/?smid=fb­nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I rest my case.

Oh, and here's some Lindsey on the flag issue. Good job, Lindsey.

• Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who fancies himself to be presidential material, offered this offensive and incoherent defense of the flying of the Confederate flag near his state’s capitol despite its obvious racist symbolism. “At the end of the day it’s time for people in South Carolina—to revisit that decision would be fine with me, but this is part of who we are,” he said. “The flag represents to some people a Civil War and that was the symbol of one side. To others it’s a racist symbol, and it’s been used by people, it’s been used in a racist way. But the problems we have in South Carolina and throughout the world are not because of a movie or a symbol, it’s because of what’s in people’s heart. You know, how do you go back and reconstruct America? What do we do in terms of our history?”

Just more proof the wrong side won the war.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

The NRA is more than a clown car, it's a complete circus. It's no wonder many of us who own guns quit supporting those apes years ago. Unfortunately, they've still got half of Congress and a big chunk of middle America wrapped around their finger.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Just more proof the wrong side won the war.

There's only one way to handle the South.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I would love to watch the fireworks if someone tried to handle this Penn State-style. "Take the flag down, or we will."

Wanna see the fur fly? Have Obama executive order it.

Or conversely, have Obama make a comment stating how it helps us all remember a tough time in this country's history and he fully supports their right to fly it. They won't be able to pull it down the pole fast enough.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Wanna see the fur fly? Have Obama executive order it.

Or conversely, have Obama make a comment stating how it helps us all remember a tough time in this country's history and he fully supports their right to fly it. They won't be able to pull it down the pole fast enough.

rotflmao

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Or conversely, have Obama make a comment stating how it helps us all remember a tough time in this country's history and he fully supports their right to fly it. They won't be able to pull it down the pole fast enough.

It's too bad the gays picked the rainbow.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Rick Perry thinks what happened in SC was an accident.

[The former Texas governor] said that the president is trying to “take the guns out of the hands of everyone in this country.”

“This is the MO of this administration, any time there is an accident like this – the president is clear, he doesn’t like for Americans to have guns and so he uses every opportunity, this being another one, to basically go parrot that message,” Perry said.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/after-sc-accident-perry-downplays-gun-issue?cid=sm_fb_maddow
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...ident-due-drug-use-manipulated-obama-ban-guns

Yet, I get shotdown around here for pointing stuff like this out? Whatever.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I'm betting Gov. Perry doesn't know the difference between incident and accident. They spelled almost exactly the same - what could be the big deal?

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

Rick Perry thinks what happened in SC was an accident.




http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/after-sc-accident-perry-downplays-gun-issue?cid=sm_fb_maddow
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/conte...ident-due-drug-use-manipulated-obama-ban-guns

Yet, I get shotdown around here for pointing stuff like this out? Whatever.

"You rape our women, and you're taking over the country. And you have to go," Dylann Roof.

"I don't know what was on the mind or the heart of the man who committed these atrocious crimes," Jeb Bush

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2nd Term Part X - A link to a fore gone conclusion

I'm betting Gov. Perry doesn't know the difference between incident and accident. They spelled almost exactly the same - what could be the big deal?

An incident is an interruption or degradation in the quality of a firearm servi---oh wait, wrong canon. Regardless, we've had enough firearm incidents to initiate a problem ticket at this point.

Perry is a buffoon, end of story. I sort of want to start my own organization in this country, even though I know the NRA will out-derp, out-spend, and out-lobby us. The Responsible Weapon Owners of America? Something like that.