Tennessee. Al-Gore could not carry his home state.
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2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
- Thread starter joecct
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Tennessee. Al-Gore could not carry his home state.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
Meaningless. Zombie Reagan wouldn't carry California today; he'd still be elected president (if he could win the GOP nomination that is).
Meaningless. Zombie Reagan wouldn't carry California today; he'd still be elected president (if he could win the GOP nomination that is).
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
I don't give a rat's arse how moral or immoral the Clintons are. What I want is a competent Presidency. All Presidents are driven to accumulate power. We've had two Presidents who were Mr. Morals types (Carter, Bush II) and the results speak for themselves.
I can't know what your hot button issues are, but from a left of center perspective I'm not sure how Hillary doesn't satify the criteria on women's rights, gay rights, minimum wage hike, health care, etc. I can also easily see her accepting Warren's student loan bill. To your concern about her being a corporate Dem, fair enough and she certainly wouldn't be in the Warren-Sanders camp, but she's not in the Cuomo camp either. I'm guessing she'd keep implementing the Dodd-Frank reforms, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and all that because her party wouldn't allow anything different. Same thing on taxes as its highly unlikely she starts enacting tax cuts for the rich.
More than all of this though, Hillary knows the political game in Washington and as much as everybody wants to believe in a Mr Smith Goes to Washington storyline, the bottom line is you need someone who sees the world as it is. Barack Obama inexplicably didn't realize until year 4 of his Presidency that Repubicans had no other agenda in Congress than to cost him his job. It took Harry Reid 6 years to figure out how to be a Majority Leader. If the Dems (or the GOP for that matter) ever achieve control of Congress and WH again, either side is going to look for results, not screwing around for one term in the search for some hopeless bipartisan coronation for their legislation. Peace through Strength is much more apt here. I'm assuming Hillary knows this better than anybody on either side of the aisle of the Presidential contenders. O'Malley for example may be a swell guy, but if he's not ready to twist some arms and fight fire with fire his proposals would be DOA. Don't even get me started on Devalue Patrick. The guy's an @ ss, plain and simple, and Massachusetts is worse for that idiot's tenure in office (and yes I voted for him the first time
)
I don't give a rat's arse how moral or immoral the Clintons are. What I want is a competent Presidency. All Presidents are driven to accumulate power. We've had two Presidents who were Mr. Morals types (Carter, Bush II) and the results speak for themselves.
I can't know what your hot button issues are, but from a left of center perspective I'm not sure how Hillary doesn't satify the criteria on women's rights, gay rights, minimum wage hike, health care, etc. I can also easily see her accepting Warren's student loan bill. To your concern about her being a corporate Dem, fair enough and she certainly wouldn't be in the Warren-Sanders camp, but she's not in the Cuomo camp either. I'm guessing she'd keep implementing the Dodd-Frank reforms, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, and all that because her party wouldn't allow anything different. Same thing on taxes as its highly unlikely she starts enacting tax cuts for the rich.
More than all of this though, Hillary knows the political game in Washington and as much as everybody wants to believe in a Mr Smith Goes to Washington storyline, the bottom line is you need someone who sees the world as it is. Barack Obama inexplicably didn't realize until year 4 of his Presidency that Repubicans had no other agenda in Congress than to cost him his job. It took Harry Reid 6 years to figure out how to be a Majority Leader. If the Dems (or the GOP for that matter) ever achieve control of Congress and WH again, either side is going to look for results, not screwing around for one term in the search for some hopeless bipartisan coronation for their legislation. Peace through Strength is much more apt here. I'm assuming Hillary knows this better than anybody on either side of the aisle of the Presidential contenders. O'Malley for example may be a swell guy, but if he's not ready to twist some arms and fight fire with fire his proposals would be DOA. Don't even get me started on Devalue Patrick. The guy's an @ ss, plain and simple, and Massachusetts is worse for that idiot's tenure in office (and yes I voted for him the first time
)Beg to differ. 2000, like 1960 & 1968, was a nail biter. In 2000 if Al-Gore had won his home state, Florida would have been meaningless.
In 1976 and 1980 it was all over by 9 pm Eastern. Heck 1996 was over by 7 pm Eastern.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
He's Republican and Conservative. If he were Obama (for example) he would be disqualified.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
I would love to watch as many of the same people who attacked Obama bent over backwards not to do the same to Cruz. The amount of spin could be epic!
Personally the only candidate I know that I like right now is Booker...
I would love to watch as many of the same people who attacked Obama bent over backwards not to do the same to Cruz. The amount of spin could be epic!
Personally the only candidate I know that I like right now is Booker...
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
Hey, same thing happened when Bush came along. Used to be the GOP was concerned if you got out of going to Vietnam and smoked a little dope (Clinton). Suddenly it was no problem if you got out of Vietnam, didn't show up for your Guard duty, snorted coke, and got arrested for a DUI! That only took one election, so I'm sure they'd have no trouble embracing Calgary Ted!
In other news, this is an interesting list. Top 10 states most dependent on the Feds - 9 are solid Republican!
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/persona...ent-on-the-federal-government.html/11/?ref=OB
Hey, same thing happened when Bush came along. Used to be the GOP was concerned if you got out of going to Vietnam and smoked a little dope (Clinton). Suddenly it was no problem if you got out of Vietnam, didn't show up for your Guard duty, snorted coke, and got arrested for a DUI! That only took one election, so I'm sure they'd have no trouble embracing Calgary Ted!
In other news, this is an interesting list. Top 10 states most dependent on the Feds - 9 are solid Republican!
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/persona...ent-on-the-federal-government.html/11/?ref=OB
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
Avoiding that BS is just one more very good reason Cruz should never be the GOP candidate.
While at the same time some people who defended Obama would go after Cruz, justifying it with "they did it first."
Avoiding that BS is just one more very good reason Cruz should never be the GOP candidate.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
And it isnt even the best reason
You are correct though the spin from both sides would be highly entertaining
And it isnt even the best reason
You are correct though the spin from both sides would be highly entertaining
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
Booker's problem is that he's got Obama 2.0 written all over him - black, young, charismatic, highly educated (all good), and a former political figure in a major city known for cronyism (not so good).
I tend to think the Democrats are probably going with someone older this cycle. The Millennials that helped put Obama in office aren't going to devour "Hope and Change" twice.
Booker's problem is that he's got Obama 2.0 written all over him - black, young, charismatic, highly educated (all good), and a former political figure in a major city known for cronyism (not so good).
I tend to think the Democrats are probably going with someone older this cycle. The Millennials that helped put Obama in office aren't going to devour "Hope and Change" twice.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
I'll bet they will. After all, they didn't get their change the first time. They're going to have to vote in midterms and in state and local elections if they want to actually see their preferences reflected.
One thing for the knucks -- they vote. They can exercise an influence well beyond their numbers, and for radical policies to boot, because they are present at all the little things that add up to big victories: school boards, boards of selectmen, state reps. The Dems have never been able to get their people engaged at the local level, which is frankly bizarre since right wing talking points completely break down at the local level. Nobody screams OH NOES TEH GUBMINT IZ SATAN!!1!! when the town water supply is on the line.
I'll bet they will. After all, they didn't get their change the first time. They're going to have to vote in midterms and in state and local elections if they want to actually see their preferences reflected.
One thing for the knucks -- they vote. They can exercise an influence well beyond their numbers, and for radical policies to boot, because they are present at all the little things that add up to big victories: school boards, boards of selectmen, state reps. The Dems have never been able to get their people engaged at the local level, which is frankly bizarre since right wing talking points completely break down at the local level. Nobody screams OH NOES TEH GUBMINT IZ SATAN!!1!! when the town water supply is on the line.
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
Hillary Clinton is a singular phenomenon in that she has the *potential* to cross generational lines. Purely on issues young people aren't going to vote Republican because its a party of tired old white guys and their pet peeves. Now perhaps Rand Paul and his own brand of loonitarianism does a little better amongst the under 40 set, but if libertarians were that popular they'd have swung a lot more elections before 2016.
The big difference with Hillary is something the pundidiot crowd tends to miss, which is the sense of the electorate that "I want one of my own in there". Older married women, particulary those pushing retirement and beyond, are a bedrock of support for the GOP. Its going to be real tough to tell these ladies to blow off perhaps the only chance in their lifetimes to see a woman President. Especially if the alternative is Cruz, Paul, Walker, etc. Could they do so? Sure, but thats kinda like saying Catholics weren't going to come out for Kennedy, or blacks for Obama.
Hillary Clinton is a singular phenomenon in that she has the *potential* to cross generational lines. Purely on issues young people aren't going to vote Republican because its a party of tired old white guys and their pet peeves. Now perhaps Rand Paul and his own brand of loonitarianism does a little better amongst the under 40 set, but if libertarians were that popular they'd have swung a lot more elections before 2016.
The big difference with Hillary is something the pundidiot crowd tends to miss, which is the sense of the electorate that "I want one of my own in there". Older married women, particulary those pushing retirement and beyond, are a bedrock of support for the GOP. Its going to be real tough to tell these ladies to blow off perhaps the only chance in their lifetimes to see a woman President. Especially if the alternative is Cruz, Paul, Walker, etc. Could they do so? Sure, but thats kinda like saying Catholics weren't going to come out for Kennedy, or blacks for Obama.
They have homeowners associations for that.
Commitment and follow-through? Millennials? Think, then type!
Uh-huh. Anything to avoid admitting that there might actually be a lot of conservatives in this country. Yes, yes, I know none of YOUR friends are...
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
The irony about statements like this is unlike 90% of the righties on USCHO, I live and work with actual conservatives every day -- not "I read that P. J. O'Rourke book" cafe conservatives.
There is nothing quite like the immaculate persecution of the One True Conservative on a college campus or in a well educated suburb.
The irony about statements like this is unlike 90% of the righties on USCHO, I live and work with actual conservatives every day -- not "I read that P. J. O'Rourke book" cafe conservatives.
There is nothing quite like the immaculate persecution of the One True Conservative on a college campus or in a well educated suburb.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
I am no friend to them, but let's be fair and recall that prior to now libertarians have been stuck with the Libertarian Party, which is like taking your bucktoothed sister to Prom. You may recall the Libertarian Party from such completely invisible events as their July 4th party conventions on C-SPAN. If they actually do manage to complete the capture of the GOP they've been angling for lo these past 10-15 years, they'll have oodles more money and exposure. I could see them doing well with 20-something Type A technocrats. They could actually be the only serious "youth movement" in the country in the near future, if by "youth" you mean 99.998% male. Do you see a similar "youth movement" on the left? I don't. I see young centrists and liberals clustering around interest voting rather than Utopianism. They're not magnetized to the Dems at all -- they're just revolted by the rotting corpse of the GOP.
Libertarians would also have one ace in the hole -- a wholesale anti-war movement just waiting for the next oil war. The same type of kids who sang "hey hey LBJ how many kids you kill today?!" to a real lefty would be repulsed by Hillary's "blood and iron" shtick. And while right now it's impossible to imagine any non-fundy under the age of 60 actually embracing the GOP, it's not hard at all to imagine an entire generation of young people completely giving up on politics when confronted with the sheer cynicism of another Clinton regime.
I am no friend to them, but let's be fair and recall that prior to now libertarians have been stuck with the Libertarian Party, which is like taking your bucktoothed sister to Prom. You may recall the Libertarian Party from such completely invisible events as their July 4th party conventions on C-SPAN. If they actually do manage to complete the capture of the GOP they've been angling for lo these past 10-15 years, they'll have oodles more money and exposure. I could see them doing well with 20-something Type A technocrats. They could actually be the only serious "youth movement" in the country in the near future, if by "youth" you mean 99.998% male. Do you see a similar "youth movement" on the left? I don't. I see young centrists and liberals clustering around interest voting rather than Utopianism. They're not magnetized to the Dems at all -- they're just revolted by the rotting corpse of the GOP.
Libertarians would also have one ace in the hole -- a wholesale anti-war movement just waiting for the next oil war. The same type of kids who sang "hey hey LBJ how many kids you kill today?!" to a real lefty would be repulsed by Hillary's "blood and iron" shtick. And while right now it's impossible to imagine any non-fundy under the age of 60 actually embracing the GOP, it's not hard at all to imagine an entire generation of young people completely giving up on politics when confronted with the sheer cynicism of another Clinton regime.
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
Why do you need another reason other than to know he's an ultrapartisian fundie that has absolutely no business being in any seat of national power much less the president? Even I can see that he's a few rounds short of a full clip.
Why do you need another reason other than to know he's an ultrapartisian fundie that has absolutely no business being in any seat of national power much less the president? Even I can see that he's a few rounds short of a full clip.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line
Cruz' father is certifiable, but Cruz himself just looks like a dime-a-dozen demagogue. His resemblance to Joseph McCarthy is well more than skin deep.
Cruz' father is certifiable, but Cruz himself just looks like a dime-a-dozen demagogue. His resemblance to Joseph McCarthy is well more than skin deep.
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