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2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

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Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

The Civil War was about States' Rights. Particularly, the rights of those states that seceded to allow people to own slaves.

To say the Civil War was about taxation or whatever is to say World War II was about Polish hostility towards Germany.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I think we all know why the South seceded (the fallout from the Missouri Compromise, perceived "abolitionist liberal" Lincoln). So therefore, they exercised their states' rights, and tried to leave the Union. We can debate for weeks as to whether that was 'justified' or not, but ultimately, the Civil War was about those states' rights. They lost, and (IMO, to this day) paid the price for it.
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It's a bit sad that the domestic terrorist Lincoln decided to get aggressive and force them to stay. It set the precedent for today's corrupt federal government.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

This week in Republicans.

Mike Huckabee thinks North Korea has more freedom than America.

“My gosh, I’m beginning to think that there’s more freedom in North Korea sometimes than there is in the United States,” he said in his remarks. “When I go to the airport, I have to get in the surrender position, people put hands all over me, and I have to provide photo ID and a couple of different forms and prove that I really am not going to terrorize the airplane – but if I want to go vote I don’t need a thing.”
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http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/new-hampshire-freedom-summit-ted-cruz-rand-paul-mike-huckabee
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Rover said:
I'm really hoping Huckleberry makes another Presidential bid. I don't expect him to get the nomination, but its sure going to be fun watching Paul and Cruz try to outcrazy him during the debates. :D
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That will be most of the fun. I agree.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Here's another beautiful Gaffe. These clowns spend all their time lying to people.

How does [Rand] Paul show evidence of his concern for the poor?

Oh, by lying about the history of presidential job creation. And not very cleverly.

When is the last time in our country we created millions of jobs? It was under Ronald Reagan … Did he say, “oh let’s just cut taxes for low-income people?” No, he said forthrightly, “let’s cut everyone’s taxes” … The top rate was 70% … he lowered it … to 28% … and 20 million jobs were created. - Rand Paul

Sometimes conservative lies take a lot of effort to unpack. This one does not.

Bill Clinton’s presidency presided over the creation of 23 million. Ronald Reagan presided over 16 million (not 20 million). Bill Clinton came after Ronald Reagan.

And Clinton, you may recall, increased the top tax rate to 39.6 percent.

Yes, Reagan created jobs. But his tax policies also contributed to widening economic inequality.
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http://ourfuture.org/20140415/rand-pauls-plan-to-brand-gop-as-for-the-poor-and-the-lie-that-ruins-it

Rand wins the liar liar pants on fire for today.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

LynahFan said:
Enlightenment and human decency. The same factors that are now driving the push to end a key remaining discriminatory practice in the US: denial of marriage rights to a huge portion of the population. A push, by the way, that is being completely opposed by the religion that purports to be about treating your neighbors the way you would like to be treated. So trends toward better treatment of minorities and those who have traditionally been seen as having fewer rights can, and do, happen without Christianity.
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Been travelling so it'll be difficult to get another answer back. Remember Christianity did play a role in civil rights and womens suffrage and child labor practices and many others. Congratulations, you found one not on the Jesus list.

Jesus gave significant attention to the subhuman treatment of others...as well as, significant respect for women waay before its time. Gay marriage really hasn't been a grade A #1 issue until 2000...so it doesn't surprise me that it didn't get all sorts of attention thousands of years ahead of its time. So yes, Jesus and therefore Christians would probably weight slavery on a different level than that of gay marriage.

And this 'human decency' of which you speak. Starting when it did, in about 1600 . Do research...you'll soon see that most times there was a major improvement in human decency in the west, there was a common thread: a Christian driver.

St. Clown said:
The economics of owning a slave was turning against the practice long before the war. In a few years it would have been to the point where slaveholders would have given up the practice on their own for the simple fact that it was expensive to own another person - food, clothing, lodging, discipline, etc.. Plantations were businesses, first and foremost. There have been economists who've looked into the subject and came to the conclusion. In fact, prior to the cotton gin, the institution was on the verge of collapse for that very reason. Then the average marginal revenue of each slave became much greater after the cotton gin, which extended the practice, but was still on the decline and its eventual end all because of the profit motive. Feel free to research it.
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The economist is usually pretty good on these types of analyses:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/09/economic-history-2

Long story, short. It does appear that many economist have seen the damage it caused the south. Even so, many of the slaveholders were not aware of the intricacies of macroeconomics...nor even cost accounting that might lead them to make the right decision. Each slaveholders position was built on the status quo and they had no place else they could go. In any case, they didn't release their slaves. Indeed, they fought to make every state joining the union a slave state and then went to war for their 'way of life'. Also remember that even many northerners at the time were afraid what would happen if all the slaves were just loosed into the streets...and if that was the case for northerners, how would southerners feel?

Dunno. Maybe southerners were soon to the release their slaves...but I just don't see the evidence.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

5mn_Major said:
And this 'human decency' of which you speak. Starting when it did, in about 1600 . Do research...you'll soon see that most times there was a major improvement in human decency in the west, there was a common thread: a Christian driver.
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So predictable... You know what you'd find every time there was a major atrocity in the west for the last 1700 years? Christianity was the dominant religion during those events, too. But those must have been because of "culture" or something.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

LynahFan said:
So predictable... You know what you'd find every time there was a major atrocity in the west for the last 1700 years? Christianity was the dominant religion during those events, too. But those must have been because of "culture" or something.
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I feel like this is coming full circle again. Folks had been perverting Christianity (and many, many similar perspectives) for thousands of years...when the message was kept from the populous. You really have to address this issue...or your argument is a non starter.

How many of your so called atrocities happened after the bible got out there in 1600? How do those few atrocities stack up against massive social change (which you've failed to address) shepherded in by Christianity? Slavery, child labor, women's suffrage, healthcare, charity and even some education. I know the argument, Hitler was a Christian.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

ScoobyDoo said:
Here's another beautiful Gaffe. These clowns spend all their time lying to people.



http://ourfuture.org/20140415/rand-pauls-plan-to-brand-gop-as-for-the-poor-and-the-lie-that-ruins-it

Rand wins the liar liar pants on fire for today.
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Clinton may have raised taxes, but he also was a part of the massive welfare-reform of the 90's (well, technically, he was dragged kicking and screaming into it by the Republican congress, but that's beside the point), and Reagan couldn't cut domestic spending as much as he wanted with the Democratic house. We can't just look at tax rates and conclude what is best for jobs, especially since the only tax rate that's usually looked at is the top bracket's. There's a lot of other factors that determine employment.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Rover said:
I'm really hoping Huckleberry makes another Presidential bid. I don't expect him to get the nomination, but its sure going to be fun watching Paul and Cruz try to outcrazy him during the debates. :D
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Presidential primaries are so much fun to watch. It's nothing but people who like each other pretending to hate each other. So much better than the debates after the conventions, where it's two people who hate each other pretending to like each other to be seen as 'civilized'. It's also interesting to see them pick apart each other's positions in primaries, since they're 95% similar. I remember last cycle when Santorum and Romney were going back and forth between each other on a single issue, where each time it seemed like the one candidate had put the other away, just to see the other come back to keep it going. I think it went back and forth like that 5 times like that before the moderator got fed up and ended it, so neither won. It was one of the most intense confrontations I've ever seen not played on ice.
 
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