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2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

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Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I don't get the logic. The public clearly has no desire to get involved in any of these conflicts. If its political, as in lets just criticize the President, its stupid politics. You end up forcing the GOP nominee to make statements like "we should still be in Iraq".

Otherwise, what's the point? I can understand and respect John McCain's position, because he's an old Cold Warrior, but he's a dinosaur. Does he really still think we should get involved in these conflicts just to stick it to the Russians? The freakin' cold war ended 25 years ago.

Much better to let Putin reassemble the Soviet empire under the rubric of "Eurasianism" using different weapons: bluster, threats, intimidation, bribes, violence, corruption, etc. At least here we haven't drawn a "red line." Hope and Change for Ukraine.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Much better to let Putin reassemble the Soviet empire under the rubric of "Eurasianism" using different weapons: bluster, threats, intimidation, bribes, violence, corruption, etc. At least here we haven't drawn a "red line." Hope and Change for Ukraine.


Opie, repeat after me. The Cold War Is Over. The Cold War Is Over. The Cold War Is Over....now click your ruby red shoes together a few times and maybe you'll be back home in 1982!!!! :D

Putin is presiding over a failing kleptocracy who's one reason for existence, fossil fuels, is being threatened by production elsewhere. He struggled to pull off the Olympics, an event the Greeks and Italians had already accomplished in recent years. His ability to reassemble the Soviet Union exists in his mind, and there only.

Now I'm sure you'd like us to send troops over there like Old Man McCain, but why don't we let these countries solve their own problems for once?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Opie, repeat after me. The Cold War Is Over. The Cold War Is Over. The Cold War Is Over....now click your ruby red shoes together a few times and maybe you'll be back home in 1982!!!! :D

Putin is presiding over a failing kleptocracy who's one reason for existence, fossil fuels, is being threatened by production elsewhere. He struggled to pull off the Olympics, an event the Greeks and Italians had already accomplished in recent years. His ability to reassemble the Soviet Union exists in his mind, and there only.

Now I'm sure you'd like us to send troops over there like Old Man McCain, but why don't we let these countries solve their own problems for once?

The Cold War isn't over. It's just been re-branded. How else will the government justify violating the Constitution?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

The Cold War isn't over. It's just been re-branded. How else will the government justify violating the Constitution?

The War on Terror Silly! We've created a whole new one, and unlike the Soviets this conflict plays out mostly in the dark so we can have even more stringent laws like the Patriot Act.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

As a recovering college libertarian, I have to admit this slant piece is pretty funny. Just don't expect objective journalism. In fact, Rover - did you write this? :D

http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-atheist-libertarians-are-part-americas-1-problem?paging=off

It's an editorial from what I can see. Not sure why you want objectivity from an opinion piece. In fact if you were being graded on an editorial piece in High School and were objective you would be docked points.

As for the piece it brings up questions that John Stossel is either unwilling or unable to answer.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

As a recovering college libertarian, I have to admit this slant piece is pretty funny. Just don't expect objective journalism. In fact, Rover - did you write this? :D

http://www.alternet.org/belief/why-atheist-libertarians-are-part-americas-1-problem?paging=off


Its better written than anything I can come up with on the fly. :D

The guy does bring up good points, but I like lunitarians personally. Yes, their proposals are nonsensical and have no practical application in the real world, but how does that make them any different than conservatives? Also, IF (and its a big if) they truly stick to their philosophy, they're on the right side of live-and-let-live social issues. Problem is, they rarely pass up the chance to pander once elected. However, they seem to be less angry than the rest of their fellow Republicans (probably because of what the author alludes to - they get stoned more than most conservatives). ;)
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I haven't really thought about the concept of atheist libertarians before. They just want to do what they want to do...without responsibility or implications for others.

Frankly they are technically polar opposites to religious conservatives...who try to use moral justification to project their own personal views on society. However both religious conservatives and atheist libertarians are very black and white and are frequently all about themselves.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I haven't really thought about the concept of atheist libertarians before. They just want to do what they want to do...without responsibility or implications for others.

Frankly they are technically polar opposites to religious conservatives...who try to use moral justification to project their own personal views on society. However both religious conservatives and atheist libertarians are very black and white and are frequently all about themselves.

I'm an atheist and I'm a libertarian. You don't have me pegged at all.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Now I'm sure you'd like us to send troops over there like Old Man McCain, but why don't we let these countries solve their own problems for once?
Won't be a problem now.

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel called Monday for shrinking the U.S. Army to its smallest size in decades, along with other cuts, drawing criticism that the drastic changes will hurt U.S. security.

Hagel announced his Pentagon budget priorities Monday afternoon. The Army had already been preparing to shrink to 490,000 active-duty members from a wartime peak of 570,000. Hagel is proposing to cut it further to between 440,000 and 450,000.

That would make it the smallest since just before the U.S. entered World War II.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I'm an atheist and I'm a libertarian. You don't have me pegged at all.

I overstated the issue...and I respect you as a poster.

Assuming atheism means a rejection of Christ's POV and for many it does...I will say that IMO there is a pretty strong common theme between the two (atheism and libertarianism) from a moral standpoint towards others. This moral theme may not be driving reason for some...but I could well imagine it is for others.



Edit: Frankly, I have less of a problem with atheists than most Christians and less than many atheists have with Christians. I do have a problem with those that don't believe that what Jesus espoused was the real deal.
 
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Assuming atheism means a rejection of Christ's POV and for many it does..

Atheism simply means a lack of a belief in a supernatural god, deity, force, being, whatever. It has nothing to do with (not) loving one's neighbor. It simply means they don't believe Jesus was a deity, not that he didn't have good things to say or espouse a worthwhile philosophy.

You don't need religion to have morals or otherwise be a good person. Frankly, I'd be more worried about the person who is only decent because they think it'll get them into heaven.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I haven't really thought about the concept of atheist libertarians before. They just want to do what they want to do...without responsibility or implications for others.
Speaking directly to the libertarian aspect of your assertion, what you've described is a libertine. Libertarians, that is small "l" libertarians, hold forth that a person should be allowed to do what they want and when they want up until the point that it impacts other people's rights negatively, be it their property rights, personal being rights or economic rights, which are often so intermingled together that it can be tough to seperate them. Thus most libertarians will place restrictions upon a person's liberties with those ideal as the foundation. At the same time, increased liberty also requires the commensurate personal responsibility. You want to smoke? Fine, smoke away where you're not going to impact others without their leave, but then you need to own up to the consequences of your actions. If you're too poor to pay the piper for the cancer treatment, then you shouldn't have chosen to smoke; if your friends, family and even strangers want to help you pay for the treatments through charity, then that's their perogative, but it shouldn't be a task required through government dictate (Medicaid transfer payments). Ultimatley, your reap what you sow.

Libertines are selfish children, often times anarchists, and should not be confused for anything else.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Opie, repeat after me. The Cold War Is Over. The Cold War Is Over. The Cold War Is Over....now click your ruby red shoes together a few times and maybe you'll be back home in 1982!!!! :D

Putin is presiding over a failing kleptocracy who's one reason for existence, fossil fuels, is being threatened by production elsewhere. He struggled to pull off the Olympics, an event the Greeks and Italians had already accomplished in recent years. His ability to reassemble the Soviet Union exists in his mind, and there only.

Now I'm sure you'd like us to send troops over there like Old Man McCain, but why don't we let these countries solve their own problems for once?


Father Coughlin, I presume.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Good. We don't need a wwii or cold war level force at this point in time.
I just hope that nobody's under the illusion that a smaller force = cheaper force. Hagel's budget is exactly what was expected; he's just choosing to make the known cuts by reducing the number of personnel (read: keeping weapons systems, modernization, tech development, etc).
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Atheism simply means a lack of a belief in a supernatural god, deity, force, being, whatever. It has nothing to do with (not) loving one's neighbor. It simply means they don't believe Jesus was a deity, not that he didn't have good things to say or espouse a worthwhile philosophy.

You don't need religion to have morals or otherwise be a good person. Frankly, I'd be more worried about the person who is only decent because they think it'll get them into heaven.

...yes and why I said overstated. Having said that, atheism as with conservative, communist, etc has a definition that in many circles has morphed. Not everyone, but many who call themselves that have less respect and do in fact believe 'do what thou will'.

Speaking directly to the libertarian aspect of your assertion, what you've described is a libertine. Libertarians, that is small "l" libertarians, hold forth that a person should be allowed to do what they want and when they want up until the point that it impacts other people's rights negatively, be it their property rights, personal being rights or economic rights, which are often so intermingled together that it can be tough to seperate them. Thus most libertarians will place restrictions upon a person's liberties with those ideal as the foundation. At the same time, increased liberty also requires the commensurate personal responsibility. You want to smoke? Fine, smoke away where you're not going to impact others without their leave, but then you need to own up to the consequences of your actions. If you're too poor to pay the piper for the cancer treatment, then you shouldn't have chosen to smoke; if your friends, family and even strangers want to help you pay for the treatments through charity, then that's their perogative, but it shouldn't be a task required through government dictate (Medicaid transfer payments). Ultimatley, your reap what you sow.

Libertines are selfish children, often times anarchists, and should not be confused for anything else.

In your scenario, smoking may not be a zero sum game...but there are many issues that are. A simple example of a zero sum: a government regulation that says you have to shovel your part of the public sidewalk...many libertarians would say don't tell me what to do. In this case, the net result of no shoveled sidewalks in the city is a bad outcome for all residents.

The trick is that libertarians often feel that they themselves are the only one's who get to judge whether their freedoms harm others or not...not the one's who are impacted and therefore, would know for sure. A libertarian might say "I don't walk anywhere so the regulation is more overbearing government with no benefit." And they might well be in the minority on this.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

And they might well be in the minority on this.

Right, wrong or otherwise...libertarians are in the minority???

Any more cutting-edge analysis you'd like to add?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Good. We don't need a wwii or cold war level force at this point in time.

Your ignorance in these matters is unsurpassed. As is your supply of lefty bumper stickers.
 
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