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2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

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Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Rover said:
In today's version of Is There Anything More Useless Than House Republicans we give you the Immigration debacle.

So The Boner wants to pass immigration reform because his country club buddies and political strategists are telling him its good for the party. But, since the Tea Party has his nuts in a jar on their mantle, he's decided to put it off until next year. So far so good, right?

The problem is the idiot is living in a world that existed 20 years ago where the Dems would play by a different set of rules that the GOP had long since abandoned. After 2014, the next election is the Presidential one. At that point, what's to stop the Dems from screwing the Republicans on this issue by demanding a quicker path to citizenship with a lot less billions on border enforcement, and then daring the Republicans to block it? Don't they benefit by going into 2016 without an immigration bill, just like the Republicans might in 2014? What happens to all those GOP Senators running in states with a decent amount Hispanics (Rubio, Kirk, whoever runs for McCain's seat when he mercifully retires, etc)?
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If they're going to reach a deal on this, at the most the GOP should offer is legal, perminant residence status, not full citizenship. Allow them to stay and work here legally, no longer part of a black market for labor, but do not allow them to vote nor do we allow them any taxpayer funded social services. Their children born here would be citizens, but those who crossed the border would not. That's the price for coming here illegally in the first place.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

So you want to tax them for social services (if they work) but not give them any? I agree on the right to vote but not sure the taxing issue is a viable option.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Handyman said:
So you want to tax them for social services (if they work) but not give them any? I agree on the right to vote but not sure the taxing issue is a viable option.
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We can't, as a society, let them go unpunished. Their taxes, like everyone else's, would go towards maintaining civil goods such as parks, police, and such. It's not like all of their taxes go towards social services, so it's not a complete punishment. There might be an argument for giving them reduced benefits, but in no way should they be granted full access. Again, there has to be some level of acknowledging what they did was illegal in the first place.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

St. Clown said:
We can't, as a society, let them go unpunished. Their taxes, like everyone else's, would go towards maintaining civil goods such as parks, police, and such. It's not like all of their taxes go towards social services, so it's not a complete punishment. There might be an argument for giving them reduced benefits, but in no way should they be granted full access. Again, there has to be some level of acknowledging what they did was illegal in the first place.
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If they were brought here as kids, I'm not sure why exactly we're punishing them???

My views on this are fairly straight forward. 1) join the armed services and get discharged honorably? Walk down to city hall and take the oath. You're in. No waiting period. 2) Earn a degree in an area of need (science, medical, tech, etc) - you're a permanent resident. Get a job, do the 7 years and take the oath. You're in. 3) Brought here as a youngster? Have a job and no criminal record? Get in the back of the line, pay your back taxes and you'll have legal status. No guarantee you'll become a citizen however. 4) Came here as an adult? See ya - unless you do 1 or 2 above... Of course there needs to be a season visa for agricultural workers but they have to go back once it expires.

Beyond that though, I don't have a dog in this fight. However, the politics do interest me.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

St. Clown said:
We can't, as a society, let them go unpunished. Their taxes, like everyone else's, would go towards maintaining civil goods such as parks, police, and such. It's not like all of their taxes go towards social services, so it's not a complete punishment. There might be an argument for giving them reduced benefits, but in no way should they be granted full access. Again, there has to be some level of acknowledging what they did was illegal in the first place.
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They are going to have Medicare taken out of their paychecks but not have access to it. No way that flies dude.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Rover said:
If they were brought here as kids, I'm not sure why exactly we're punishing them???

My views on this are fairly straight forward. 1) join the armed services and get discharged honorably? Walk down to city hall and take the oath. You're in. No waiting period. 2) Earn a degree in an area of need (science, medical, tech, etc) - you're a permanent resident. Get a job, do the 7 years and take the oath. You're in. 3) Brought here as a youngster? Have a job and no criminal record? Get in the back of the line, pay your back taxes and you'll have legal status. No guarantee you'll become a citizen however. 4) Came here as an adult? See ya - unless you do 1 or 2 above... Of course there needs to be a season visa for agricultural workers but they have to go back once it expires.

Beyond that though, I don't have a dog in this fight. However, the politics do interest me.
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Whatever bill is passed, it won't be for only those who were brought here as children. Those who came here as adults shouldn't get off scot free. It's a true slap to the face of those who did come here legally and went through the long, laborious task of getting citizenship or even permanent residence. While I'm more sympathetic to the kids that were smuggled into the country, I would still require more of them than what you state. Coming forward would be a testament to wanting something more, something better for future generations. I would be all aboard for requiring a degree in some necessary field, limiting their options to those fields for which we're currently importing talent.

I would still limit access to social services, though. That would aid in sending a signal to anyone in the future who's thinking of doing an illegal crossing - you'll be entirely outside the law and we'll give you no quarter for it. Should a state choose to do otherwise, that's on the individual states and their budgets, but the federal gov't will not pay a penny for them.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Rover said:
If they were brought here as kids, I'm not sure why exactly we're punishing them???

My views on this are fairly straight forward. 1) join the armed services and get discharged honorably? Walk down to city hall and take the oath. You're in. No waiting period. 2) Earn a degree in an area of need (science, medical, tech, etc) - you're a permanent resident. Get a job, do the 7 years and take the oath. You're in. 3) Brought here as a youngster? Have a job and no criminal record? Get in the back of the line, pay your back taxes and you'll have legal status. No guarantee you'll become a citizen however. 4) Came here as an adult? See ya - unless you do 1 or 2 above... Of course there needs to be a season visa for agricultural workers but they have to go back once it expires.

Beyond that though, I don't have a dog in this fight. However, the politics do interest me.
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I am 100% on board with all of your positions - measured, pragmatic, and fair.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

LynahFan said:
I am 100% on board with all of your positions - measured, pragmatic, and fair.
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Thanks! The part I don't get, or to put another way, the part I worry about, is why the 1st step isn't law already. Who exactly is against having veterans get their citizenship? I understand the politics and blah blah blah, but this one seems like an easy one along with anybody with a degree in nuclear physics or brain surgery, etc (step #2).
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Seems like a reasonable approach to me.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Now we need boots on the ground in the Ukraine. How much money do we have?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

ScoobyDoo said:
Now we need boots on the ground in the Ukraine. How much money do we have?
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No, we don't need boots on the grou in the Ukraine, no matter how much the politicians say otherwise. What's happening there is sad, but it's not our concern.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

St. Clown said:
No, we don't need boots on the grou in the Ukraine, no matter how much the politicians say otherwise. What's happening there is sad, but it's not our concern.
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Rob Portman is blaming Obama for Syria, Ukraine, and just about every other uprising that's happened since he took office. He along with McCain and Graham would like us to police the entire planet.

How much money do we have?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

ScoobyDoo said:
Rob Portman is blaming Obama for Syria, Ukraine, and just about every other uprising that's happened since he took office. He along with McCain and Graham would like us to police the entire planet.

How much money do we have?
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Good for them. We don't have to listen to those three. The nation rejected McCain and his ilk once on a national level, we can do it again.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I don't get the logic. The public clearly has no desire to get involved in any of these conflicts. If its political, as in lets just criticize the President, its stupid politics. You end up forcing the GOP nominee to make statements like "we should still be in Iraq".

Otherwise, what's the point? I can understand and respect John McCain's position, because he's an old Cold Warrior, but he's a dinosaur. Does he really still think we should get involved in these conflicts just to stick it to the Russians? The freakin' cold war ended 25 years ago.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

As the Chris Christie issue continues on you can now add Scott Walker to the list of Governors who may be front runners for President and can't keep out of the (bad) news.

Rover,

Look at the reaction to Benghazi. For cripes sake it's Libya. How much freaking money do they want to spend?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Its human nature that as a group of people dwindles, they get louder and louder to compensate until they flame out. Neoconservatives are a dying breed in a dying ideology. Only they're going faster than the rest of them. After the 2016 elections McCain is a decent bet to retire after this term and Kelly Ayotte is going to be out of a job facing a Hillary Clinton electorate. I don't know if Portman will make it past the 2016 elections either but we could be left with just Lindsey Graham in a few years from this wing of the party and the sooner they go the better. Rand Paul may be a loonatarian, but he's correct in rejecting this world view.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

ScoobyDoo said:
As the Chris Christie issue continues on you can now add Scott Walker to the list of Governors who may be front runners for President and can't keep out of the (bad) news.

Rover,

Look at the reaction to Benghazi. For cripes sake it's Libya. How much freaking money do they want to spend?
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You wish.
 
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