2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Whatever happened to "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to be afraid of"?

Are people surprised the Patriot Act is being exploited by the government? Why? Oh, that's right...when the Patriot Act was passed everyone (D's and R's alike) thought it was a great idea and anyone who dared speak out about civil liberties was a Communist hippie who hated America and wanted the terrorists to win.

Still feel that way?

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Hey lefty whiners, it's been FIVE years... and you're STILL blaming your predecessor?!?!?! http://twitchy.com/2013/06/06/shock...todd-ties-nsa-scandal-to-bush-administration/

Where's the pitch pipe? "It's Bush's fault. Bush did it first. Bush was way worse."

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Whatever happened to "If you aren't doing anything wrong you have nothing to be afraid of"?

Are people surprised the Patriot Act is being exploited by the government? Why? Oh, that's right...when the Patriot Act was passed everyone (D's and R's alike) thought it was a great idea and anyone who dared speak out about civil liberties was a Communist hippie who hated America and wanted the terrorists to win.

Still feel that way?

Yes. Especially that last bit.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

These are sad, pathetic times. For all his campaign promises that go against everything that's happening, I'd love nothing more than to see Obama be impeached and/or resign. But I know in my bitter heart that I'd hate the next guy just the same, regardless of which party he came from.

We watched a Lewis Black show from 2009 last night. He had a few good zingers along those lines (I'm paraphrasing a bit):
> "we just had an election campaign. Watching the Democrats and Republicans argue with each other is like watching a big steaming pile of bovine fecal matter argue with itself in front of a mirror."
> "Lots of people think that, with GWB no longer President, I'll have to struggle to find material. Well....the President just appointed a Secretary of the Treasury who can't even file his income tax returns!"


I always come back to the astute political commentary from The Who: "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."



It is so sad to see the knee-jerk Obamaphiles reflexively defend everything he says and does. What did he ever do to inspire such loyalty? we've seen him toss people aside left and right as soon as they become inconvenient to him. What makes them think he cares about them in the slightest? at least the Republicans don't even try to pretend they care.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

We watched a Lewis Black show from 2009 last night. He had a few good zingers along those lines (I'm paraphrasing a bit):
> "we just had an election campaign. Watching the Democrats and Republicans argue with each other is like watching a big steaming pile of bovine fecal matter argue with itself in front of a mirror."
> "Lots of people think that, with GWB no longer President, I'll have to struggle to find material. Well....the President just appointed a Secretary of the Treasury who can't even file his income tax returns!"

He said back in (I think) 2005: The only thing worse than Democrats and Republicans are when these ****ers work together. A Republican will stand up and announce "I have a really ****ty idea!" and his Democratic colleague will stand up and say, "And I can make it even ****tier!"

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I broke my rule and watched Fox last night, I had read that Bob Beckel had a melt down on this subject and wanted to see it. God bless him, in his sputtering rage, he kept referencing "listening to 'phone calls," then correcting himself. He did it several times. As I say, I have no expectation of privacy on the calls I place. On the content? Sure. How many times in "Law & Order" do you see them "checking the luds" to see who a suspect has called, how often, when, and for how long? I'd need more than this before I move into that bunker with Elizabeth Clare Prophet.

Yes but are those requests not made with a court order and probable cause? That is different than blanket surveillance. My favorite part of this who thing is Obama's comments.

[video]http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=90051&sitesection=nydailynews&VID=24869466[/video]

How can he have such a firm grasp of what is going on in this situation yet continue to claim he learns about stuff when we do on the news with so many other issues?

 

[Rover]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

"Don't compare me to The Almighty. Compare me to the opposition." - Pierre Trudeau.

I would say defending Obama comes about for two reasons:

1) The opposition is a disaster. A weak, dumb, reactionary, hapless party governed by idiots, hucksters, and ideologues. Not only content to go after the opposition, they've taken pains to purge their own ranks of good people solely because they did something bipartisan. Doing nothing = allowing the modern day GOP to assume power.

2) Many of the "charges" against Obama are ludicrous. Nothing is more fun than confronting some black helicopter, New World Order fearing righty and watching their head explode. Again, you can't trust the lamestream media to parcel out The Truth. Lefties need to meet fire with fire. That's why Darrell Issa is now known as Mr Grand Theft Auto as well as being a torch. If you want to play that game, you don't get a free pass for your own hypocrisy. That went out the window during the Clinton Impeachment trial.

So, while the O isn't nearly as good of a Prez as Clinton, what was the alternative? A McCain or Mittens Presidency with Itch McConnell running the Senate and The Boner running the House? No. Thanks.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Yes but are those requests not made with a court order and probable cause? That is different than blanket surveillance. My favorite part of this who thing is Obama's comments.

[video]http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=90051&sitesection=nydailynews&VID=24869466[/video]

How can he have such a firm grasp of what is going on in this situation yet continue to claim he learns about stuff when we do on the news with so many other issues?

Nope. There was, I believe, a SCOTUS decision on that point. Call records have always been maintained. How else are they going to bill you for toll and LD calls or exceeding your allotted number of minutes? The other Little Dick scandals are a different matter.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

"Don't compare me to The Almighty. Compare me to the opposition." - Pierre Trudeau.

I would say defending Obama comes about for two reasons:

1) The opposition is a disaster. A weak, dumb, reactionary, hapless party governed by idiots, hucksters, and ideologues. Not only content to go after the opposition, they've taken pains to purge their own ranks of good people solely because they did something bipartisan. Doing nothing = allowing the modern day GOP to assume power.

2) Many of the "charges" against Obama are ludicrous. Nothing is more fun than confronting some black helicopter, New World Order fearing righty and watching their head explode. Again, you can't trust the lamestream media to parcel out The Truth. Lefties need to meet fire with fire. That's why Darrell Issa is now known as Mr Grand Theft Auto as well as being a torch. If you want to play that game, you don't get a free pass for your own hypocrisy. That went out the window during the Clinton Impeachment trial.

So, while the O isn't nearly as good of a Prez as Clinton, what was the alternative? A McCain or Mittens Presidency with Itch McConnell running the Senate and The Boner running the House? No. Thanks.

I thought the O was one of the best presidents of all time? There is little doubt that Republican leadership is completely lacking but if you think only one side is reactionary and ideologues please explain how the left continues to blame and run on anti Bush? No one runs on ideas anymore, they all just run on not being the other guy. We don't really discuss budgets or how to deal with costs of things on either side, all we do is wait for someone on the other side to present any minute detail of an idea and rip it to shreds. BOTH sides do this constantly.

Sidenote:
25 best political jokes of the month: http://www.ijreview.com/2013/06/57568-top-25-political-jokes-of-the-month/

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

"Don't compare me to The Almighty. Compare me to the opposition." - Pierre Trudeau.

I would say defending Obama comes about for two reasons:

1) The opposition is a disaster. A weak, dumb, reactionary, hapless party governed by idiots, hucksters, and ideologues. Not only content to go after the opposition, they've taken pains to purge their own ranks of good people solely because they did something bipartisan. Doing nothing = allowing the modern day GOP to assume power.

2) Many of the "charges" against Obama are ludicrous. Nothing is more fun than confronting some black helicopter, New World Order fearing righty and watching their head explode. Again, you can't trust the lamestream media to parcel out The Truth. Lefties need to meet fire with fire. That's why Darrell Issa is now known as Mr Grand Theft Auto as well as being a torch. If you want to play that game, you don't get a free pass for your own hypocrisy. That went out the window during the Clinton Impeachment trial.

So, while the O isn't nearly as good of a Prez as Clinton, what was the alternative? A McCain or Mittens Presidency with Itch McConnell running the Senate and The Boner running the House? No. Thanks.

At least Issa didn't drown anybody. And the liberals now openly in rebellion against "The One" are hardly the black helicopter crowd.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Nope. There was, I believe, a SCOTUS decision on that point. Call records have always been maintained. How else are they going to bill you for toll and LD calls or exceeding your allotted number of minutes? The other Little Dick scandals are a different matter.

There is a huge difference between a company tracking something for billing purposes and the government having access to that information without a warrant. Does that mean the government should have access to my bank statement for purposes of seeing where I buy things with my check card without a warrant? I don't think so.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

There is a huge difference between a company tracking something for billing purposes and the government having access to that information without a warrant. Does that mean the government should have access to my back statement for purposes of seeing where I buy things with my check card without a warrant? I don't think so.

Foolish you. Of course they can!

We need to know when you access Wo Fat's Anarchist webstore for amateur spies and saboteurs.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

There is a huge difference between a company tracking something for billing purposes and the government having access to that information without a warrant. Does that mean the government should have access to my back statement for purposes of seeing where I buy things with my check card without a warrant? I don't think so.

Apples & Oranges, IMO

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Apples & Oranges, IMO

But you basically said, "it's tracked and documented therefore it's available for the government to see without warrant." Where should that line be drawn if it's allowed to go that far?

 

[joecct]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

But you basically said, "it's tracked and documented therefore it's available for the government to see without warrant." Where should that line be drawn if it's allowed to go that far?

Aye, that's the rub.

Nice article on the dilemma the administration, the congre$$, and the people face over on Townhall.com: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...ent-were-going-to-have-some-problems-n1615443

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Nice article on the dilemma the administration, the congre$$, and the people face over on Townhall.com: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guyben...ent-were-going-to-have-some-problems-n1615443

I think Obama's phrasing is upside down and backwards: a man of character would say something like "if the government does not behave in a trustworthy manner, then we have some real serious problems."

The very foundation of our governmental structure is mistrust! Why else do we have separation of powers and checks and balances? because people in power are inherently not trustworthy! That's part of human nature 101.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

There is a huge difference between a company tracking something for billing purposes and the government having access to that information without a warrant. Does that mean the government should have access to my bank statement for purposes of seeing where I buy things with my check card without a warrant? I don't think so.

If you aren't doing anything wrong...

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

If you aren't doing anything wrong...

When have I ever uttered that? You saying that to me is not throwing anything in my face. If you're not doing anything wrong than there is no point in pleading the 5th. Do I think you should be able to plead the 5th? Of course. Do I think that much of the patriot is a load of crap? Yes.

You act like you "got me" by saying that. I'm a libertarian so obviously I have a problem with government collecting information without a warrant.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

When have I ever uttered that? You saying that to me is not throwing anything in my face. If you're not doing anything wrong than there is no point in pleading the 5th. Do I think you should be able to plead the 5th? Of course. Do I think that much of the patriot is a load of crap? Yes.

You act like you "got me" by saying that. I'm a libertarian so obviously I have a problem with government collecting information without a warrant.

I am not so sure he is trying to get you,he is just doing to you what was done to him by the other side when this stuff was discussed under a different regime. even on this board this fight has been going n for a decade with the sides seemingly flipped. For those of us not affiliated with a party it is interesting to watch.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I am not so sure he is trying to get you,he is just doing to you what was done to him by the other side when this stuff was discussed under a different regime. even on this board this fight has been going n for a decade with the sides seemingly flipped. For those of us not affiliated with a party it is interesting to watch.

Ok, just seemed like it. I have never been a fan of the patriot act and similar things because that is not how we're founded. Of course something could be embedded in our terms and conditions that states that information provided to you in your monthly statement is also provided to the NSA for national security purposes and while I would still not be happy about that, there isn't much I could do about that other than not do business with that company because its part of a contract.

If you aren't doing anything wrong...whats wrong with searching your house at gun point?