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2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

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The huge problem with this analysis is that the wealthy states vote Dem and the poor ones vote GOP. Kentucky, West Virginia, Alabama, etc are all voting for righties, while the donor states of Mass, NY, CA, etc are voting left.

What this speaks to is a mindset that the right wing has adopted that only appeals to older voters. Everything fits into three categories. 1) You're losing your freedoms. 2) The country is changing for the worse and will cease to exist in a few years, and 3) You're the only one working for a living while everyone else is collecting a handout.

Why this appeals to older voters is because society HAS changed since they were younger just like it has for every generation since the country was founded. Tell a 30 year old that society is changing and they'll say "Great!". Tell that to a 60 year old and you'll get a far different reaction. Why it appeals even more so to the Baby Boomer generation is that they're extraordinarily self centered and entitled. The WWII generation wasn't nearly this bad at a similar age most likely because of the shared sacrifice of that struggle.

So, for those born after the late 50's, we just don't have that fear of those "other people" getting ahead so we have to stick it to them. That really is a hot button for IMHO those aged in their late 50's to their early 70's. Politically it worked well for awhile, but now its a loser (Paul Ryan's everybody under 55 pays while everybody over 55 doesn't budget comes to mind).

There are more poor people in CA than all of those other states combined. Granted, I used some rough math there...but checking census stats for percent below poverty and the populate of the states...CA has 14% of 38 million.

California's per capita income is $1.7k above the national average. So, it isn't a rich state, it just has a disproportionate income when comparing those with incomes...which means what?

That is more poor people in CA than the entire population of KY, regardless of income.

Using averages to define states as rich or poor is faulty logic.

Some different data: I read these stats and don't agree with your rich states are democrats analysis.http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_12.html
 
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There are more poor people in CA than all of those other states combined. Granted, I used some rough math there...but checking census stats for percent below poverty and the populate of the states...CA has 14% of 38 million.

California's per capita income is $1.7k above the national average. So, it isn't a rich state, it just has a disproportionate income when comparing those with incomes...which means what?

That is more poor people in CA than the entire population of KY, regardless of income.

Using averages to define states as rich or poor is faulty logic.

Some different data: I read these stats and don't agree with your rich states are democrats analysis.http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_12.html

California would also be something like the 5th largest economy in the world, were it its own country (behind the remaining us, china, japan, and one or two other countries). It is a very well off state in that regard.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Joecct,

Don't you think that every generation thinks the one after them are all candy @ sses? As someone who I think contributed to the next generation that's a he ll of an attitude to take. You've gotta trust that the people who come after you care as much about the country as you do but can learn from your generation's mistakes.

The crux of right wing media is that you and the people you know are working hard, but its all the people you don't know that are grifting. Statistically that's d@mn near impossible. You're a good guy being enraged by hucksters who want you to keep listening. Recognize the scam and you'll feel a lot better about things.
Sorry. Don't subscribe to that.

We help each other. Not move the money to the government(s) so they can help somebody. The old proverb about teaching a man to fish comes to mind. I think that a lot of you/us have stopped learning to fish.
 
Sorry. Don't subscribe to that.

We help each other. Not move the money to the government(s) so they can help somebody. The old proverb about teaching a man to fish comes to mind. I think that a lot of you/us have stopped learning to fish.

Disagree completely. The govt is spending less money in real terms on discretionary expenditures than it has in years thanks to budget cuts and the sequester. The idea that there's some master plot to make everybody dependent on govt handouts to buy their votes is a right wing straw man argument. If that was the case, West Virginia wouldn't be voting solid Republican. Again, you've fallen for the "you're the only person working while everyone else is getting a handout" ruse. Things like unemployment payments are up since this is the worst recession in anybody's memory who's younger than 80. Entitlement spending is up as Baby Boomers are retiring. None of this is due to a nefarious scheme on anybody's part.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Is the media making the President a victim as in "You don't support the President because he is black.."???
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

California's per capita income is $1.7k above the national average. So, it isn't a rich state, it just has a disproportionate income when comparing those with incomes...which means what?

There's quite a disparage with this. Along with those "average busters", we must also consider that the cost of living has an effect upon the per capita income. If you compare two people working the same job in two different places (and we'll say it's a job with better pay than a burger flipper), you'll notice that the pay scale is very different based upon the area where the job is.
 
Both elections. Not to mention any time dissent comes out.

Again, please show a source? I'll even take a Drudge link although I can't promise not to have some fun at its expense. ;)

In other news, Christie scheduled an Oct special election for Lautenberg's seat.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Excellent article about Issa (apologies to posters who have a crush on him :eek:)

Issa Stirs Echoes of McCarthy as Obama's 'Best Friend' in IRS Probe
Chief GOP investigator doesn't know when to let ****ing facts speak for themselves.
Tweet By Ron Fournier

Updated: June 3, 2013 | 11:39 a.m.
June 3, 2013 | 8:47 a.m.


In one brief and repugnant interview, the GOP's chief congressional investigator into Internal Revenue Service abuses cherry-picked evidence, overstated his case, and violated the sacred American principle of presumed innocence.

If that was not enough, Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., called White House press secretary Jay Carney a "paid liar," and couldn't explain why. "We're getting to proving it," he said.

Meet the best friend of a controversy-plagued Democratic White House: a demagogic Republican.

In a reminder of how the GOP overreached during the Clinton-era sex scandal, Issa doesn't seem capable of letting ****ing facts speak for themselves.

Interviewed by a smartly skeptical Candy Crowley on CNN's State of the Union, the California Republican found himself on the defensive from the start.

"Congressional investigators tell CNN the [congressional] report finds the IRS spent over $50 million on 225 employee conferences over a two-year period," Crowley said, adding that the Obama administration no longer allows spending on such training.

"So what's the hearing about?" she said. "Why are you having it?"

Issa shifted focus to the IRS's admission that its agents targeted conservative groups for review of their tax-exempt status. "Well, first of all, we're looking at the IRS for how big the problem is," he replied. "As you know as late as last week the administration is still trying to say there's a few rogue agents in Cincinnati when in fact the indication is they were directly being ordered from Washington."

Note what Issa is doing. He does it all the time--start an unsubstantiated allegation with an absolute declaration ("when in fact") and follow it with weasel words ("the indication is"). This smear-and-caveat technique allows him to ruin reputations without being called a liar.

Issa is a demagogue with plausible deniability.

Crowley turned next to excerpts of interviews with IRS agents that were selectively made public. She calls the practice "problematic" because "it's hard for us to kind of judge what's going on."

Cherry-picking evidence is deceptive and unethical. Here's how it works:

CROWLEY The investigator said, "So, is it your perspective that ultimately the responsible parties for the decisions that were reported by the [inspector general]"--that is, the decision to target tea-party and patriot applications--"are not in the Cincinnati office?" The employee says, "I don't know how to answer that question. I mean, from an agent standpoint, we didn't do anything wrong. We followed directions based on other people telling us what to do." Investigator: "And you ultimately followed directions from Washington, is that correct?" The employee: "If direction had come down from Washington, yes." The investigator: "But with respect to the particular scrutiny that was given to tea-party applications, those directions emanated from Washington, is that right?" The employee answers, "I believe so."


It's totally not definitive.

ISSA Well, that one isn't.

No "smoking gun." Not even a warm slingshot. And yet, Issa kept digging his hole.

ISSA But I will tell you, one of the agents asked for and got a transfer because that person was so uncomfortable that they wanted out of it.

CROWLEY Right.

ISSA And they've said categorically they thought it was inappropriate, and that's why that person requested a transfer.

CROWLEY You give those transcripts as well.

ISSA Right. And these transcripts will be made public.

If history is a guide, the full transcripts will not support Issa's exaggerated claims and dark accusations. Crowley pressed Issa to release the interviews immediately to avoid the perception that "you in particular sort of cherry-pick information that go to your foregone conclusion."

Like a cornered snake, Issa lashed out.

ISSA The whole transcript will be put out. We understand--these are in real time. And the administration is still--they're paid liar, their spokesperson, picture behind [he points to a picture of White House press secretary Jay Carney], he's still making up things about what happens in calling this local rogue. There's no indication--the reason the Lois Lerner tried to take the Fifth is not because there is a rogue in Cincinnati; it's because this is a problem that was coordinated in all likelihood right out of Washington headquarters and we're getting to proving it. We have 18 more transcribed interviews to do.

See what he's doing? "We understand" and "in all likelihood" are weasel phrases couching accusations and assumptions that Issa can't support. But don't worry; he might prove them after 18 more interviews!

Do you hear history's echo? Sen. Joe McCarthy paved his way to infamy with 205 names. " I have here in my hand a list of 205—a list of names that were made known to the secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party …," McCarthy said in 1950. (There is some dispute over the actual number of names McCarthy cited.)

Crowley pointed out the obvious--that Issa had "no direct link" between the wrongdoing of IRS agents and political leaders in Washington. Issa replied, "The president's spokesman is saying whatever is convenient at the time and the story changes."

That sentence is irony wrapped in raw partisanship and infused with hypocrisy. If Issa is going to call Carney a liar, he might want to step outside his glass house.

He might also want to realize that the president is swamped in self-inflicted controversies that raise questions of West Wing competence, if not corruption. We will soon know whether the IRS's targeting involved officials at the White House or President Obama's reelection campaign. The flames don't need Issa's toxic fuel.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Well, the voters in Colorado seem to be a bit miffed...http://communities.washingtontimes....blue-bill/2013/jun/3/sen-john-morse-recalled/

As Tip used to say, "All politics is local."

And, if you can believe this: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/199...th-anti-war-platform-doesnt-know-who-kony-is/
At least he will have had more executive experience prior to running and occupying than our current Chief Executive. I'm not commenting on the quality of effort, just he does have a spot on the resume that says "governor".
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Interviewed by a smartly skeptical Candy Crowley..............Like a cornered snake, Issa lashed out.

I love this kind of writing. I should be paid to create stuff ("reporting"?) like this, it's my speciality. But I could be a lot more subtle, this guy goes a little overboard to where it's pretty obvious.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I heard on the news that AP is reporting that high-ranking members of the Obama administration are in violation of the Freedom of Information Act because they are using dummy personal email accounts to conduct official business, such that these emails would not be subject to FOIA release when they should be. Supposedly, Lisa Jackson, who just left the EPA, took an ethics course online during work hours under an assumed name.

Regular non-political people I know are starting to notice a common thread here, and even liberals I know are getting quite concerned. It's one thing to say "I don't trust people and so I want government to do stuff I think is important" but it's another thing entirely to have a totalitarian government at the expense of open honest information and a respect for minority rights.

Kathleen Sebelius asking companies who are subject to regulation by her to donate money.
IRS stifling people who are concerned that the IRS has too much power.
Using the 1917 Espionage Act and seeking out a third judge after the first two say "no" to gain access to a reporter's email and phone records.

This isn't just "big" government, this is government that is verging into totalitarian territory. I suppose the usual suspects will respond that totalitarian government is a great thing because they like the policies it is (currently) promoting. Maybe so, but that's not what we all agreed upon, and I don't like it when one side unilaterally changes its mind, in secret. :mad:
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I heard on the news that AP is reporting that high-ranking members of the Obama administration are in violation of the Freedom of Information Act because they are using dummy personal email accounts to conduct official business, such that these emails would not be subject to FOIA release when they should be. Supposedly, Lisa Jackson, who just left the EPA, took an ethics course online during work hours under an assumed name.

Regular non-political people I know are starting to notice a common thread here, and even liberals I know are getting quite concerned. It's one thing to say "I don't trust people and so I want government to do stuff I think is important" but it's another thing entirely to have a totalitarian government at the expense of open honest information and a respect for minority rights.

Kathleen Sebelius asking companies who are subject to regulation by her to donate money.
IRS stifling people who are concerned that the IRS has too much power.
Using the 1917 Espionage Act and seeking out a third judge after the first two say "no" to gain access to a reporter's email and phone records.

This isn't just "big" government, this is government that is verging into totalitarian territory. I suppose the usual suspects will respond that totalitarian government is a great thing because they like the policies it is (currently) promoting. Maybe so, but that's not what we all agreed upon, and I don't like it when one side unilaterally changes its mind, in secret. :mad:

Racist.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I love this kind of writing. I should be paid to create stuff ("reporting"?) like this, it's my speciality. But I could be a lot more subtle, this guy goes a little overboard to where it's pretty obvious.

This would be the same "journalist" who jumped in to save Little Dick in a debate?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I heard on the news that AP is reporting that high-ranking members of the Obama administration are in violation of the Freedom of Information Act because they are using dummy personal email accounts to conduct official business, such that these emails would not be subject to FOIA release when they should be.:
They all have D after their names, nothing to see here
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

This would be the same "journalist" who jumped in to save Little Dick in a debate?

I hope, if he's protecting his reputation, he didn't "lash out a coiled snake" with Obama in the room. There's a lot of talk among the more "indelicate" parts of the blogosphere about all the private vacations Obama has been taking (making Michelle stay home with the kids) with a personal aide named "Reggie Love" (of all things) including an alleged photo of Love coming pretty close to fondling O's junk. Far be it from me, though, to cast suspicion on Barry's fidelity to his lovely wife. :cool:
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I hope, if he's protecting his reputation, he didn't "lash out a coiled snake" with Obama in the room. There's a lot of talk among the more "indelicate" parts of the blogosphere about all the private vacations Obama has been taking (making Michelle stay home with the kids) with a personal aide named "Reggie Love" (of all things) including an alleged photo of Love coming pretty close to fondling O's junk. Far be it from me, though, to cast suspicion on Barry's fidelity to his lovely wife. :cool:

I'm confident Little Dick could do much better than Candy Crowley. She looks like a very large unmade bed.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I heard on the news that AP is reporting that high-ranking members of the Obama administration are in violation of the Freedom of Information Act because they are using dummy personal email accounts to conduct official business, such that these emails would not be subject to FOIA release when they should be.

Of course, what the AP story actually says is they set up secondary official e-mail accounts so that e-mails don't get lost in the thousands of e-mails sent in by members of the general public. The e-mail accounts themselves are not violations of FOIA, the AP is just doubting that the government disclosed things sent through those secondary accounts.

The latter is always going to be an issue under any administration ("How do we know you disclosed everything?"). The former is simply people trying to yell wolf yet again.

Why do I get the feeling the "news" story you heard was spun by a Rupert Murdoch enterprise? I found the actual AP story in 5 seconds thru Google. Too hard for you to do?
 
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