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2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Civil War II: Electric Boogaloo



I could be wrong, but that sounds like sedition to me.

Anti-sedition laws go nowhere in civilian courts. Read Holmes' dissent in Abrams v. United States for a truly eloquent statement on why that should be so.

What the heck. I've posted this quote before, but it's so good:

Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power, and want a certain result with all your heart, you naturally express your wishes in law, and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care wholeheartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas -- that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That, at any rate, is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year, if not every day, we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system, I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country. I wholly disagree with the argument of the Government that the First Amendment left the common law as to seditious libel in force. History seems to me against the notion. I had conceived that the United States, through many years, had shown its repentance for the Sedition Act of 1798, by repaying fines that it imposed. Only the emergency that makes it immediately dangerous to leave the correction of evil counsels to time warrants [p631] making any exception to the sweeping command, "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech." Of course, I am speaking only of expressions of opinion and exhortations, which were all that were uttered here, but I regret that I cannot put into more impressive words my belief that, in their conviction upon this indictment, the defendants were deprived of their rights under the Constitution of the United States.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Since when the actual shooting starts conservatives are usually nowhere to be found (Bush II, Cheney, Limbaugh, etc) I'm not too worried about some knuckledragger trying to overthrow the gubmint. One car backfiring on the street behind them and they'll all be running for the hills. :D
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Lexington Common - April 1775.

From little things big things happen.
King George didn't have drones, cruise missiles or tanks.

Anti-sedition laws go nowhere in civilian courts. Read Holmes' dissent in Abrams v. United States for a truly eloquent statement on why that should be so.

What the heck. I've posted this quote before, but it's so good:

Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power, and want a certain result with all your heart, you naturally express your wishes in law, and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care wholeheartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas -- that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That, at any rate, is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year, if not every day, we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system, I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country. I wholly disagree with the argument of the Government that the First Amendment left the common law as to seditious libel in force. History seems to me against the notion. I had conceived that the United States, through many years, had shown its repentance for the Sedition Act of 1798, by repaying fines that it imposed. Only the emergency that makes it immediately dangerous to leave the correction of evil counsels to time warrants [p631] making any exception to the sweeping command, "Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech." Of course, I am speaking only of expressions of opinion and exhortations, which were all that were uttered here, but I regret that I cannot put into more impressive words my belief that, in their conviction upon this indictment, the defendants were deprived of their rights under the Constitution of the United States.

Talking is one thing. Taking up arms (or exhorting others to do so) against the government is another.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

King George didn't have drones, cruise missiles or tanks.
No, but they had the best army in the world. We won because the French decided to get involved. Without France, it was dicey at best.

Talking is one thing. Taking up arms (or exhorting others to do so) against the government is another.
See Brown, John - he lost and got hung for his troubles.
See Lee, Robert E., et al -- he (they) lost and are respected and revered.


Tell you what -- if whats his face Marches on Washington and is slaughtered at the border, then there will be a great uneasiness in this country.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Since when the actual shooting starts conservatives are usually nowhere to be found (Bush II, Cheney, Limbaugh, etc) I'm not too worried about some knuckledragger trying to overthrow the gubmint. One car backfiring on the street behind them and they'll all be running for the hills. :D

Everyone knows John Kerry won the "VeetNam" war all by himself. The guy got 38 purple hearts! At least one for contracting an esoteric STD and another for falling off a bar stool in the O Club at DaNang.

Sergeant York had nothing on that horse faced hypocrite.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Everyone knows John Kerry won the VeetNam war all by himself. The guy got 38 purple hearts! At least one for contracting an esoteric STD and another for falling off a bar stool in the O Club at DaNang.

I'm sure if you had spent any time in 'Nam, we could evaluate your military record and pick apart the circumstance of any awards you might've been honored with. But that would be "ad hominem", wouldn't it?

I'm all for leaving a man's war record alone unless there was a serious court martial/dishonorable discharge, and that goes for both aisles. You weren't there, you don't know what happened; war is hell - find something else to criticize. Kerry, Bush II, etc. had plenty of faults in their post-war careers.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

I'm sure if you had spent any time in 'Nam, we could evaluate your military record and pick apart the circumstance of any awards you might've been honored with. But that would be "ad hominem", wouldn't it?

I'm all for leaving a man's war record alone unless there was a serious court martial/dishonorable discharge, and that goes for both aisles. You weren't there, you don't know what happened; war is hell - find something else to criticize. Kerry, Bush II, etc. had plenty of faults in their post-war careers.

You're right. But you're telling the wrong person. Tell Rover. I was being sarcastic. Pointing out that Democrats thought nominating Bill "thank you for saving me from the draft" Clinton was perfectly fine. But when they had a candidate with a good war record, suddenly that became the most important thing (notwithstanding his several terms in the senate). Remember, when that phony stepped to the mic to accept the nomination of his party, his first words were "John Kerry reporting for duty." Kerry's excellent service record, IMO, is vitiated by his slandering and libeling an entire generation of GI's with that bull sh*t "Winter Soldier" stuff he entered in the record of a senate committee hearing (out of uniform, BTW). He was willing to trash the honor of hundreds of thousands of guys who served honorably and bravely to advance his own political career. Unforgiveable. About one short step ahead of Hanoi Jane.

I was a Vietnam era vet. Under any circumstance, you wouldn't be able to accurately evaluate my record, since you don't know the first farking thing about it. But I'm not the issue here. Rover (and all of the libtard a*sholes) and his bull sh*t trolling is. As a general rule, these folks aren't exactly what you'd call big supporters of our military.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

You're right. But you're telling the wrong person. Tell Rover. I was being sarcastic. Pointing out that Democrats thought nominating Bill "thank you for saving me from the draft" Clinton was perfectly fine. But when they had a candidate with a good war record, suddenly that became the most important thing (notwithstanding his several terms in the senate). Remember, when that phony stepped to the mic to accept the nomination of his party, his first words were "John Kerry reporting for duty." Kerry's excellent service record, IMO, is vitiated by his slandering and libeling an entire generation of GI's with that bull sh*t "Winter Soldier" stuff he entered in the record of a senate committee hearing (out of uniform, BTW). He was willing to trash the honor of hundreds of thousands of guys who served honorably and bravely to advance his own political career. Unforgiveable. About one short step ahead of Hanoi Jane.

I was a Vietnam era vet. Under any circumstance, you wouldn't be able to accurately evaluate my record, since you don't know the first farking thing about it. But I'm not the issue here. Rover (and all of the libtard a*sholes) and his bull sh*t trolling is. As a general rule, these folks aren't exactly what you'd call big supporters of our military.

Opie I'm calling you out on this one. Why wasn't being a Vietnam era vet good enough for Al Gore, who you know, actually went over there even if he didn't see any combat, but it makes you Rambo (or some sort of expert)? Look, the problem with conservatives like yourself, and really most of your generation, is you want to have it both ways. You want to be able to slander combat veterans for political purposes, but then claim anti-Americanism if somebody questions for example George W Bush's assignment to fly over Texas once then take off for two years to help out in a political campaign. Its fine to start a whispering campaign about ex-POW John McCain's mental stability in the GOP primaries. So I ask again, how do you people live with yourselves?

The best part is though, the public isn't fooled. We know hypocritical conservative whiny BS artists when we see them. That's why your movement has lost 4 out of the 6 Presidential elections and been outvoted in 5 out of the 6. But by all means justify stuff like the Swift Boat veterans and other such nonsense, all the while blocking out of your brain that you're calling the guy who's life he saved a liar also because apparently that never happened or something. Sometimes Opie, you need to put the politics aside and realize the people you're supporting are scum and don't deserve to represent anybody. Its too bad for you if Reaganism is dead and buried but there's probably a reason for that. Conservatism is a failure and any attempts to lie, cheat, and slander your way into office will not change the public's perception of it.
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Opie I'm calling you out on this one............... hypocritical conservative whiny BS artists when we see them. .......... etc.
this is a pretty decent effort, but why don't you ever use that super angry alias anymore? "Tim" something was it?
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

this is a pretty decent effort, but why don't you ever use that super angry alias anymore? "Tim" something was it?

Happily enough I've never seen the point of using another alias. What you get out here is 100% Rover, baby! And there's more than enough to go around! :D
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Happily enough I've never seen the point of using another alias. What you get out here is 100% Rover, baby! And there's more than enough to go around! :D
It wasn't as good of a troll as I thought - Pio still hasn't come up with the patented rant response I expected to the "Rambo" dig, etc. - unless you really pushed him over the edge, and he threw something through his monitor :eek:
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

Opie I'm calling you out on this one. Why wasn't being a Vietnam era vet good enough for Al Gore, who you know, actually went over there even if he didn't see any combat, but it makes you Rambo (or some sort of expert)? Look, the problem with conservatives like yourself, and really most of your generation, is you want to have it both ways. You want to be able to slander combat veterans for political purposes, but then claim anti-Americanism if somebody questions for example George W Bush's assignment to fly over Texas once then take off for two years to help out in a political campaign. Its fine to start a whispering campaign about ex-POW John McCain's mental stability in the GOP primaries. So I ask again, how do you people live with yourselves?

The best part is though, the public isn't fooled. We know hypocritical conservative whiny BS artists when we see them. That's why your movement has lost 4 out of the 6 Presidential elections and been outvoted in 5 out of the 6. But by all means justify stuff like the Swift Boat veterans and other such nonsense, all the while blocking out of your brain that you're calling the guy who's life he saved a liar also because apparently that never happened or something. Sometimes Opie, you need to put the politics aside and realize the people you're supporting are scum and don't deserve to represent anybody. Its too bad for you if Reaganism is dead and buried but there's probably a reason for that. Conservatism is a failure and any attempts to lie, cheat, and slander your way into office will not change the public's perception of it.

If libtard blathering was an Olympic sport. . . Remind us again where the big phony was on Christmas, 1968, and which president had sent him there.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part 4: Donkeys, Elephants, and Porcupines

9 more injured in Oklahoma and Arkansas by Obama's weather weapon. What will quench his unspeakable bloodlust?
 
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