2021 World Championships

[slapshot willy]

3 on 3 is not hockey. Yuck.

3 monkeys could have coached the US team to a silver medal. Shoulda started Rigsby LOL.

So they just blow the horn during live play to end the game when no goal was indicated by the ref's on the ice? Seriously? These people are worse than the wwcha refs. How is that possible? 3 monkeys could have made a better decision than that.

Nice shot on the game winner though it was never called a goal.

I too, was surprised at the 3v3 in OT. Thought it would be 5v5 plus goalie. I think the 3v3 is exciting, and last night it was. Even NHL overtime is 3v3 and it’s fun to watch. I personally think seeing a game won in something other than a shootout is good. But everyone’s different.

As for the buzzer going off during play after Poulins’ goal, I think it was quickly being reviewed upstairs as the play went on. The decision was made to end the game ASAP as one can imagine the chaos and confusion that would have ensued if the USA scored before a whistle happened.

 

[chickod]

The young players in college would have experience with 3 on 3. The older players would not have grown up playing it all and so a 20 minute period of it was undoubtedly going to result in a goal. Interesting.

Correct...except that it was OBVIOUS that the US never practiced the 3 on 3. The idea is to play "keep away" until you get an odd man break. The US was trying to force the puck into the zone and would often end up with a 1 on 2 and just lose the puck. That was shocking to me...anyone who has watched ANY NHL hockey should know how to play this. I don't think I'm "spoiled" when I say just from watching the Bruins' "Perfection Line" (Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak) dangle with the puck and move it to open ice AWAY from any defenders should be enough of a lesson. Sometimes they would maintain possession for an entire minute, and when there were no opportunities, they would just pass it back and start the play over, unlike the US which just kept forcing the puck in. It's as if they didn't realize it was 3 on 3 and all kinds of open space. So while I agree that Canada was CLEARLY the better team, it was disappointing that the US seemed so woefully unprepared, considering the history of the games between these two teams would point to an excellent chance of an overtime situation.

 

[chickod]

The US had a number of problems. The “coverage” on the second Canadian goal was horrific; three people moving to cover the same player off the faceoff. I have no idea where Barnes was going. USA Hockey always falls in love with offensive D, but USA/Canada games aren’t won by puck-rushing D. More often, they come down to tiny mistakes. I love Bozek, but she was slow to get back into position on the goal on the PK and wasn’t able to contest the shot after Poulin blew by a tired Cameranesi on the winner. I realize that the final play was a lot to ask. But some D just have a presence, and it is harder to score when they’re on the ice, because they constantly get a stick in a shooting lane or otherwise disrupt the play. Keller has the potential to be that kind of player, but someone needs to impress upon her that is what her team needs. We don’t need fourth forwards. Play D, then defend, and when you get bored with that, then play defense. After Stecklein, I really didn’t trust anyone else on the blue line to do that.

Hensley gave them a chance. It is hard to win a game when you get shut out after the 12:35 mark of the first period. Overall, I thought she had to make tougher saves than ARD, as the best American opportunities never really materialized.

Congrats to the champs; clearly, the best team in the world.

I felt as though the US was sloppy the entire tournament...especially in their own end and it was pretty easy to predict how last night's game would end up. It was only close because of two "soft" early goals, but the reality is that the game could have easily been 5-1. As a BU grad, however, it was nice to see Marie score the game winner.

 

[Lindsay]

I too, was surprised at the 3v3 in OT. Thought it would be 5v5 plus goalie. I think the 3v3 is exciting, and last night it was. Even NHL overtime is 3v3 and it’s fun to watch. I personally think seeing a game won in something other than a shootout is good. But everyone’s different.

I think 3 on 3 can be fun to watch, don’t know how I feel about it vs a shootout in terms of which is more fair way to determine a game..another question might be why not just 5 on 5 for as long as needed like NHL playoffs? What does IIHF do on men’s side?

 

[Lindsay]

What I have felt about Knight is that in 2014 she could still truck all over the ice and dominate everywhere. By 2018 I felt she goes as her line goes a bit because while she can score and crank the puck she needs someone to get it to her or get it to the net. She’s still an amazing player (stating the obvious),lord knows there are other players who also need someone feeding them pucks but also can’t finish. She’s a good enough finisher and there are enough play makers on USA it can still work, imo. Brandt and Cameranesi seemed to work well with Knight, I was a bit surprised that Knight didn’t go back and forth in between 2 lines game to game so that Canada, and in the semis Finland, had to defend against 2 threatening lines, and the Americans could load up a top line only as necessary. While she does go silent if anyone was going to score for the US in 5 on 5 OT I would have picked her. Haven’t thought about US’ best people for 3 on 3.

Kessel showing up in the top six at the beginning of the tourney was surprising. On their old power play and in shootouts, definitely want her on your team. But if the new power play is going to be Zumwinkle cranking pucks, don’t see where Kessel fits in there. Kessel and Carpenter did seem to settle in later in the tourney. The Olympics will have these players coming off a centralization will result in a different look than what we saw this tourney. Still, it will be interesting to see what happens with the US roster. There centralization roster seemed to have an empty spot, maybe they will add someone.

Canada really did beat the US at their own game it feels like, by splitting up Daoust and Poulin, and also having a veteran contributing 3rd and 4th lines. Almost can’t help but wonder what 2018 would have looked like if Daoust and Jenner had swapped lines in 2018. Although, lots of the Canadians just look like they got better at hockey since 2018.

The loss also gives a sense of what players like Pankowski (2019 worlds) , and the Lams, Bellamy, Duggan, Marvin, Pfalzer meant to this program for the last decade.

 

[Timothy A]

What I have felt about Knight is that in 2014 she could still truck all over the ice and dominate everywhere. By 2018 I felt she goes as her line goes a bit because while she can score and crank the puck she needs someone to get it to her or get it to the net. She’s still an amazing player (stating the obvious),lord knows there are other players who also need someone feeding them pucks but also can’t finish. She’s a good enough finisher and there are enough play makers on USA it can still work, imo. Brandt and Cameranesi seemed to work well with Knight, I was a bit surprised that Knight didn’t go back and forth in between 2 lines game to game so that Canada, and in the semis Finland, had to defend against 2 threatening lines, and the Americans could load up a top line only as necessary. While she does go silent if anyone was going to score for the US in 5 on 5 OT I would have picked her. Haven’t thought about US’ best people for 3 on 3.

Roque is a feeder.

 

[Lindsay]

Roque is a feeder.

Yep. Reporters asked why she didn’t play, couldn’t get an answer. Lol women’s hockey. Like even if the answer is she doesn’t have the wheels or something, maybe engage in coverage of the sport

 

[ARM]

The loss also gives a sense of what players like Pankowski (2019 worlds) , and the Lams, Bellamy, Duggan, Marvin, Pfalzer meant to this program for the last decade.

I think that Bellamy was the biggest loss overall, because they haven't been able to replace her. The Lams, obviously, skated a ton of shifts and took a lot of shots, and were the source of most of the Canadian bruises, so they leave a hole as well. They would have known how to play keep away during three on three, because they started their college careers passing back and forth and ignoring the third member of their own line. But Bellamy has been a fixture on the roster for a decade, and the USA's D corps isn't all that deep.

It seems that USA was also hurt by the combination of 1.5 years of Covid and players boycotting the NWHL. The result is that they haven't played decent competition in a long time. I would bet that it is easier to get hooked up with decent hockey in Canada, even if it is just a pickup game on a Tuesday night.

 

[Timothy A]

Yep. Reporters asked why she didn’t play, couldn’t get an answer. Lol women’s hockey. Like even if the answer is she doesn’t have the wheels or something, maybe engage in coverage of the sport

And if you want someone who can be a "little" physical to replace the Lami twins she also has that. Curl also has an edge as well.

 

[Blackbeard]

The Lams would have known how to play keep away during three on three, because they started their college careers passing back and forth and ignoring the third member of their own line.

Hahahahaha!! Can't stop laughing at this. Remember it well (I used to wonder ''what the hell are they doing...don't they understand what this makes them look like"?) because you are absolutely right.

 

[Blackbeard]

Curl also has an edge as well.

If you are referring to Roque, I believe it goes a bit beyond an edge. Watching her play often enough has caused me to think that she has a bit of a mean streak.

 

[Blackbeard]

The international rules are just plain sad. Wait over two years to play this tournament, and then we have to conduct the championship like we’re double parked.

Do you know why Decker got that penalty in the face off circle in the 3rd period? I didn't see it and didn't hear Rod Black explain what happened. I heard later that it was a face off violation. Spoke to my daughter in law tonight who gave me an explanation that didn't seem to make sense...something to do with new rues in the NHL in the last few years...instead of getting waived out of the playoff circle you can get penalized. The most dangerous player in women's hockey in my opinion. But maybe age, as Lindsay was alluding to with respect to Knight, might be taking its toll on all these older tremendously talented players.

Jenner is a player in the tradition of Piper and Apps, who is far more effective in the international game than she ever was in college. To a certain extent, that is true of Poulin as well, although she definitely had her moments as an NCAA player. [/QUOTE]

Re: Poulin, watching this tournament I recalled thinking more than once while watching her play for BU, "what's the big deal, I don't get it" because she struck me as being an average player. And that was after her headline making performance in the Olympic Gold Medal Game in Vancouver in 2010. But as I watched this tournament I just chalked it up to her stepping up her game when the caliber of players that she is playing with (and sometimes against) is ratcheted upwards a few steps. The old adage that playing with people who are more talented than you will cause you to raise the level of your game to attempt to match theirs is certainly true. In sports, music and many other instances. And while the "more talented" part might not be the most accurate wording as applies to Poulin's situation I think the rest fits. Maybe this is what you were describing re: Jenner as well. Jenner seems to have a nose/talent for being in big game changing plays and capitalizing often.

When I saw both her and Poulin on the game winning 2 on 1 I thought, if you are a Team Canada fan, those are absolutely the two players who you want to be in those skates at that moment. The odds were dramatically bent in Canada's favour on that play by virtue of who those two skaters were.

 

[Timothy A]

If you are referring to Roque, I believe it goes a bit beyond an edge. Watching her play often enough has caused me to think that she has a bit of a mean streak.

She played with boys up to her college career, so she had to stand up for herself.

 

[DDad16]

She played with boys up to her college career, so she had to stand up for herself.

My son played against her when she was a Freshman in High School (he was a Senior). There were times she just made them look silly, even as a Freshman. She killed a penalty practically by herself. A small caveat: we weren't a very good team, but we had some good players. She was as good as our better players at that time. It's been fun watching her progress in her career. Disappointed she didn't play in the final.

 

[Timothy A]

My son played against her when she was a Freshman in High School (he was a Senior). There were times she just made them look silly, even as a Freshman. She killed a penalty practically by herself. A small caveat: we weren't a very good team, but we had some good players. She was as good as our better players at that time. It's been fun watching her progress in her career. Disappointed she didn't play in the final.

Great insight. I wonder how many other schools were interested in her besides UW since she was not coming up the traditional pipeline. ARD also came up the boy's pipeline.

 

[Lindsay]

https://kencampbell.substack.com/p/after-humble-beginnings-usas-roque

I thought this was a nice profile on Roque. It sounds like at age 14 her family realized girls hockey was a thing, and got her into the USA Hockey camps, but she kept at it on the boy side. She was 14 and didn’t know any girls who played hockey. No different than quotes we’ve seen from ARD or Abigail Levy about their obliviousness as kids to the fact that other girls play hockey.

Not an ideal situation for numerous reasons, but missing talent on the recruiting scene is one of them. Sure hope we see Abby on the ice soon, her game is just so fun to watch.

 

[Timothy A]

https://kencampbell.substack.com/p/after-humble-beginnings-usas-roque I thought this was a nice profile on Roque. It sounds like at age 14 her family realized girls hockey was a thing, and got her into the USA Hockey camps, but she kept at it on the boy side. She was 14 and didn’t know any girls who played hockey. No different than quotes we’ve seen from ARD or Abigail Levy about their obliviousness as kids to the fact that other girls play hockey.

Not an ideal situation for numerous reasons, but missing talent on the recruiting scene is one of them. Sure hope we see Abby on the ice soon, her game is just so fun to watch.

She was so good on the Dream Gap Tour I am still shocked she didn't play in the crunch time in the tourney. Maybe she's being Watts'ed, though then they would just ignore her enormous talent. You being a Canadian fan, Watts your take on Watts?

 

[Lindsay]

You being a Canadian fan, Watts your take on Watts?

I like watching Watts play so I'm disappointed she can't make the Hockey Canada roster, similar to Gabel and to a lesser extent Giguere (or at least one of the 3). she's great. Her stats speak for themselves. A person could go on in arguing the case, but what's the point?

The rest of this is not about Watts specifically. tl;dr i like watts but if a viable pro league doesn't get going it looks like 1 more year until her career is unplugged, and it's lights out on watts been a brilliant college career.


We are to a point where really high caliber players can't make a roster in both US and Canada, and to a lesser extent Finland. Meanwhile players like Mueller, they better win in college because it's not going to happen at the int'l level, despite her being one of the best in the world. Jincy Dunne and Roque can't get off the bench. Pankowski.....Aerin Frankel....and in a nod to history that it's been this way for a long time: Nicole Corrierro. I mean even Angela James couldn't make Canada's Olympic roster! Maybe we should have started building a viable pro league 20 years ago....

On the int'l scene, teams 1 and 2 are lost at sea together, 3 doesn't fit anywhere, 4-10 play competitively against each other. Teams 1-3 have loads of talent dying on the vine because they have nowhere to play. I hope changes happens, especially as both the NW and PW are working hard to create it. There are parity issues in the NW (Boston and Minn dominate), in the PW when you break it up by country (Montreal and Minnesota better than the rest), and on the int'l scene (above). Maybe getting the best in one league together would help.

It's years past time for the parties involved to sit down and figure out a pro league. A true best on best, with equal # of teams in Canada and USA. I'm not suggesting USA Hockey and Hockey Canada bank roll the whole thing, but at a minimum an endorsement of a league to give it credibility as the league pitches to sponsors, and then acting as partner in ways that are tbd. It's kind of weird that they rarely if ever talk about the women's pro scene, from a developmental need perspective. Especially since they both partner with the NHL.

I wouldn't mind if this is the last Olympic residency we ever see IF a viable pro league gets going. I think this one especially is going to be interesting because some people seem burned out on isolation already thanks to covid, and presumably the residency means a different kind of isolation and stress after 1.5 years of the same.

Maybe in the future it makes more sense for the federations to spread that residency financial support over more players in a viable pro league, and pull your players for a month or so from college and the pro league for Olympics and be done with it. Instead of looking at roster decisions from a standpoint of "if we invest in this player for ten years is it worth it" , inevitably giving some players disproportionate support over a decade and others none; get them going in a pro league and then just evaluate based on: can they help me win this short term tournament coming up. Maybe we'd see different faces in the tourneys, and still get to enjoy the ones that don't make it, while they play in a viable and visible pro league.

just thinking out loud, don't have the answers but hope to see real progress post Olympics which to me means a true best on best league.

 

[Blackbeard]

I was waiting to find out what happened to Turnbull at the end of the game but there was little mentioned.

Turns out she broke her leg in her initial celebration with Desbiens after the the buzzer went off signaling the winning goal. She jumped up in the air with Desbiens and looked as though she came down awkwardly with the little that you can tell from the video. Daoust ended up pushing Turnbull like a sled on the ice away from the dog pile and any further injury.

How many athletes has this happened to in football, hockey, baseball? Post game victory celebrations have made a reputation for themselves as being potentially dangerous...acl's, ankles, knees, legs.

https://www.tsn.ca/blayre-turnbull-b...eeks-1.1688488

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/cana...ld-celebration

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hocke...ceremony-as-canada-wins-gold-at-womens-worlds

 

[slapshot willy]

I was waiting to find out what happened to Turnbull at the end of the game but there was little mentioned.

Turns out she broke her leg in her initial celebration with Desbiens after the the buzzer went off signaling the winning goal. She jumped up in the air with Desbiens and looked as though she came down awkwardly with the little that you can tell from the video. Daoust ended up pushing Turnbull like a sled on the ice away from the dog pile and any further injury.

How many athletes has this happened to in football, hockey, baseball? Post game victory celebrations have made a reputation for themselves as being potentially dangerous...acl's, ankles, knees, legs.

https://www.tsn.ca/blayre-turnbull-b...eeks-1.1688488

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/cana...ld-celebration

https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey...-womens-worlds

I’m surprised there haven’t more more injuries in post game hockey celebrations. You have sticks on the ice that can be tripped on, helmets and gloves are off, skate blades all over the place (some pointing up) in the pile of players , etc.

Coaches these days should be telling players of all ages ‘hey….celebrate like crazy if we win, but no pileups on the ice’. I know it’d be tough as emotions run high, but bad things can happen in celebrations like this.