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2020 Democratic Challengers
- Thread starter Kepler
- Start date
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/372705-holder-wont-rule-out-presidential-run
I'm in.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/372705-holder-wont-rule-out-presidential-run
I'm in.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
I'm mostly leaving these Tweets here to get Rover and Kepler's reactions...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump claimed 2016 elections were rigged, received Kremlin support, opposed critical sanctions on Moscow, and now attempt sow doubt over U.S. intel and law enforcement findings on Putin’s interference. On this matter, they’re two sides of the same coin. <a href="https://t.co/myNGYsWPaE">https://t.co/myNGYsWPaE</a></p>— Evan McMullin (@Evan_McMullin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Evan_McMullin/status/966677381862879235?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And remember that 98-2 senate vote for Russian sanctions? Guess who voted against.........</p>— Katie Firich (@katiefirich) <a href="https://twitter.com/katiefirich/status/966684875452379138?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Also Trump now blames Obama and Bernie blames Hillary for "not stopping" the Russians in 2016. They just always seem to be on the same page when it comes to Russia. �� <a href="https://t.co/nvAyMsAguV">https://t.co/nvAyMsAguV</a></p>— Asha Rangappa (@AshaRangappa_) <a href="https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/status/966682900715405313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I'm mostly leaving these Tweets here to get Rover and Kepler's reactions...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump claimed 2016 elections were rigged, received Kremlin support, opposed critical sanctions on Moscow, and now attempt sow doubt over U.S. intel and law enforcement findings on Putin’s interference. On this matter, they’re two sides of the same coin. <a href="https://t.co/myNGYsWPaE">https://t.co/myNGYsWPaE</a></p>— Evan McMullin (@Evan_McMullin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Evan_McMullin/status/966677381862879235?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And remember that 98-2 senate vote for Russian sanctions? Guess who voted against.........</p>— Katie Firich (@katiefirich) <a href="https://twitter.com/katiefirich/status/966684875452379138?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Also Trump now blames Obama and Bernie blames Hillary for "not stopping" the Russians in 2016. They just always seem to be on the same page when it comes to Russia. �� <a href="https://t.co/nvAyMsAguV">https://t.co/nvAyMsAguV</a></p>— Asha Rangappa (@AshaRangappa_) <a href="https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/status/966682900715405313?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 22, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Sounds like that guy huffs a lot of glue.
Sounds like that guy huffs a lot of glue.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
I like the tweets. Bernie is correct on the economics but he can be terribly short-sighted on Grand Strategy, and he steps in it again and again. The tweets show perfectly how vulnerable that makes the ideas.
Rover is actually a perfect exemplar of the forces within the Democratic party which liberals need to either co-opt or circumvent to recapture the party. His heart is clearly in the right place but he has drunk deep of the Clinton-Obama waters. His ambition is to contain Republican fascism and limit their damage. His solution is one word: Electability. Everything else can wait.
The problem is across an interval of elections that has led to a ratchet effect where the centerpoint of American politics keeps migrating farther to the right. We win and we roll back some of the derp; they win and perpetrate not just that same derp but even more. And so it has moved, for forty years, and America is now an all-but-unrecognizable fascist rogue state run by billionaires hooted on by the brainless braying of our least mentally and morally capable citizens.
We have to find a way to observe Rover's concern but also to chart a generational change. And we can't just go back and unwind all the fascist derp. Clearly, where we came from was not satisfying enough voters. It didn't improve their lives or protect them, at least not enough. We have to build a whole new system to replace not just the Republican death machine but also the old, obsolete Democratic system.
Rover and I will never do that -- we are far too old and too compromised. There may be a handful of political visionaries over 40 who can see the mountaintop and help get America there, but it sure aint Hillary and him and clearly it aint Bernie or me. So anything that embarrasses Bernie and cleaves liberals off of him is fine by me. His time is long past. We need an army of young, radical Americans who will drive a stake into the heart of the plutocracy. Their way will be unrecognizable to the Rovers and Keplers of the old, dying world. Is this your world or isn't it? If it is, then seize it!
"With fading hands w-- hey! You stole my torch!"
I like the tweets. Bernie is correct on the economics but he can be terribly short-sighted on Grand Strategy, and he steps in it again and again. The tweets show perfectly how vulnerable that makes the ideas.
Rover is actually a perfect exemplar of the forces within the Democratic party which liberals need to either co-opt or circumvent to recapture the party. His heart is clearly in the right place but he has drunk deep of the Clinton-Obama waters. His ambition is to contain Republican fascism and limit their damage. His solution is one word: Electability. Everything else can wait.
The problem is across an interval of elections that has led to a ratchet effect where the centerpoint of American politics keeps migrating farther to the right. We win and we roll back some of the derp; they win and perpetrate not just that same derp but even more. And so it has moved, for forty years, and America is now an all-but-unrecognizable fascist rogue state run by billionaires hooted on by the brainless braying of our least mentally and morally capable citizens.
We have to find a way to observe Rover's concern but also to chart a generational change. And we can't just go back and unwind all the fascist derp. Clearly, where we came from was not satisfying enough voters. It didn't improve their lives or protect them, at least not enough. We have to build a whole new system to replace not just the Republican death machine but also the old, obsolete Democratic system.
Rover and I will never do that -- we are far too old and too compromised. There may be a handful of political visionaries over 40 who can see the mountaintop and help get America there, but it sure aint Hillary and him and clearly it aint Bernie or me. So anything that embarrasses Bernie and cleaves liberals off of him is fine by me. His time is long past. We need an army of young, radical Americans who will drive a stake into the heart of the plutocracy. Their way will be unrecognizable to the Rovers and Keplers of the old, dying world. Is this your world or isn't it? If it is, then seize it!
"With fading hands w-- hey! You stole my torch!"
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
I'll play along.
My goal isn't to "contain Republican fascism". My goal is to destroy everything about them and burn that treasonous, brainless, knuckledragger party to the ground. On that score we are of the same mind. Recall you're the person who thought last year that like half the GOP base could become Dem votes based on Bernie's message, where I was telling you unless Bernie wants to start pimping racism as part of his message (and he'd be about the last guy to do that) he has no prayer of winning over GOP voters. Its a cult and IMHO you now realize that.
Where we differ, strongly, is on tactics. Some people would like to see a purity test for all Dems with the possible exception of those running in tough races such as Joe Manchin or Doug Jones. I stress the word "possible" because I'm sure there's a great deal of far lefties who don't see a difference between a Dem or a Gooper representing WVA. My take is far different. Have a primary. Everybody in. In that case there's no bitterness on my end for Bernie running. He has every right and made a good show of it. BUT, whoever loses the primary, it is your duty 99% of the time to support the nominee for whatever race is being contested, because Republicans are all, to a man (or woman) fuking insane or total cowards. Yes there will always be an unacceptable nominee but those cases are exceedingly rare. If the lefty beats the mod, then we all get behind the lefty. Same goes if the mod beats the lefty. That logic is missing in the Democratic party nowadays, but in the age of Trump needs to be beaten over the head of anybody who still thinks sitting home or worse voting FOR Trump as apparently a couple of million butthurt Sanders supporters did last year, is an appropriate response to not getting 100% of your way.
So, the #1 goal is getting elected. Once you do that and you control the political process, you can sort things out. If you aren't in the majority in the House for example, you have zero power even if you've achieved 100% purity. I'll also close by noting so called "conservaDems" have won 4 out the last 7 Presidential elections, and drew more votes in 6 out of 7. True blue lefties have not won a Presidential election since LBJ in 1964.
I'll play along.
My goal isn't to "contain Republican fascism". My goal is to destroy everything about them and burn that treasonous, brainless, knuckledragger party to the ground. On that score we are of the same mind. Recall you're the person who thought last year that like half the GOP base could become Dem votes based on Bernie's message, where I was telling you unless Bernie wants to start pimping racism as part of his message (and he'd be about the last guy to do that) he has no prayer of winning over GOP voters. Its a cult and IMHO you now realize that.
Where we differ, strongly, is on tactics. Some people would like to see a purity test for all Dems with the possible exception of those running in tough races such as Joe Manchin or Doug Jones. I stress the word "possible" because I'm sure there's a great deal of far lefties who don't see a difference between a Dem or a Gooper representing WVA. My take is far different. Have a primary. Everybody in. In that case there's no bitterness on my end for Bernie running. He has every right and made a good show of it. BUT, whoever loses the primary, it is your duty 99% of the time to support the nominee for whatever race is being contested, because Republicans are all, to a man (or woman) fuking insane or total cowards. Yes there will always be an unacceptable nominee but those cases are exceedingly rare. If the lefty beats the mod, then we all get behind the lefty. Same goes if the mod beats the lefty. That logic is missing in the Democratic party nowadays, but in the age of Trump needs to be beaten over the head of anybody who still thinks sitting home or worse voting FOR Trump as apparently a couple of million butthurt Sanders supporters did last year, is an appropriate response to not getting 100% of your way.
So, the #1 goal is getting elected. Once you do that and you control the political process, you can sort things out. If you aren't in the majority in the House for example, you have zero power even if you've achieved 100% purity. I'll also close by noting so called "conservaDems" have won 4 out the last 7 Presidential elections, and drew more votes in 6 out of 7. True blue lefties have not won a Presidential election since LBJ in 1964.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
I agree with this as long as we learn to lie on the campaign trail. Campaign as centrists, govern as radicals. The GOP has done it since 1980 and they have succeeded in foisting their sick agenda on the country. They proved democracy is only as strong as the voters' mental acuity, which means a universal electorate turns elections into derpfests. OK, lesson learned. Learn to lie. Run on moderation, confirm judges who are sixteen standard deviations to the left of the 9th.
We both agree the GOP is a diseased tick that has to be burned off the body politic for democracy to survive. Start there and end there.
I agree with this as long as we learn to lie on the campaign trail. Campaign as centrists, govern as radicals. The GOP has done it since 1980 and they have succeeded in foisting their sick agenda on the country. They proved democracy is only as strong as the voters' mental acuity, which means a universal electorate turns elections into derpfests. OK, lesson learned. Learn to lie. Run on moderation, confirm judges who are sixteen standard deviations to the left of the 9th.
We both agree the GOP is a diseased tick that has to be burned off the body politic for democracy to survive. Start there and end there.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
I love how Clinton-Obama is used as some sort of pejorative. If you want to be a true progressive, start measuring people by actual progress, not how pretty the same piece of legislation they submit every year is, even though it will never pass in a million years. Obama passed a major national health care bill. What's Bernie's big accomplishment? Getting a Ben and Jerry's flavor named after himself?
I love how Clinton-Obama is used as some sort of pejorative. If you want to be a true progressive, start measuring people by actual progress, not how pretty the same piece of legislation they submit every year is, even though it will never pass in a million years. Obama passed a major national health care bill. What's Bernie's big accomplishment? Getting a Ben and Jerry's flavor named after himself?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Bernie is way cool
Everybody likes Bernie
Everyone wants to hang out with him
Anything he wants to do, he did
..
He could turn water into wine
Or if he wanted to
He could have turned wheat into marijuana
Or sugar into amphetamines
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
He's the guy pushing single payer, affordable college, getting money out of politics, legal marijuana, securing voter rights, and various other progressive platforms that are in line with the current political landscape.
Totally agree on this and it sounds like the DNC is fixing some of its processes related to their primary system.Rover said:
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
And how is that working out for him? I'm sure the ice cream is delicious.
And how is that working out for him? I'm sure the ice cream is delicious.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
He's the most popular politician right now so... fine?
He's the most popular politician right now so... fine?
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Again, the problem isn't Bernie, its a subset of his supporters who believe nobody has done anything over the last 40 years for the Dems until he came along. Somebody (might have been trix) was arguing that Dem have done nothing for blacks over that time so that's why they didn't show up. This of course completely ignores the efforts Dems have made to secure the right to vote for African Americans despite the unrelenting attacks on that from the right. 50 years ago the poll tax was still around. Since them Dems have given us motor-voter law, expanded voting days, same day registration, gone to court a gazillion times to fight voter ID laws and last minute law changes in order to disenfranchise blacks, etc. All that tends to go unacknowledged by the Susan Sarandon wing of the left.
I'd also point out the only, and I mean only, time the NRA has lost on capitol hill in the past 40+ years is to Bill Clinton with the Brady Bill and assault weapons ban. Pretty liberal accomplishment in my book.
Again, the problem isn't Bernie, its a subset of his supporters who believe nobody has done anything over the last 40 years for the Dems until he came along. Somebody (might have been trix) was arguing that Dem have done nothing for blacks over that time so that's why they didn't show up. This of course completely ignores the efforts Dems have made to secure the right to vote for African Americans despite the unrelenting attacks on that from the right. 50 years ago the poll tax was still around. Since them Dems have given us motor-voter law, expanded voting days, same day registration, gone to court a gazillion times to fight voter ID laws and last minute law changes in order to disenfranchise blacks, etc. All that tends to go unacknowledged by the Susan Sarandon wing of the left.
I'd also point out the only, and I mean only, time the NRA has lost on capitol hill in the past 40+ years is to Bill Clinton with the Brady Bill and assault weapons ban. Pretty liberal accomplishment in my book.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Well yeah they’ve done the bare minimum of trying to secure voter rights because they know they need their votes to win.
What I meant was they haven’t done much to help achieve economic justice in this country/dem controlled states and that’s true because they haven’t.
Well yeah they’ve done the bare minimum of trying to secure voter rights because they know they need their votes to win.
What I meant was they haven’t done much to help achieve economic justice in this country/dem controlled states and that’s true because they haven’t.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
If you have Cuomo on your list, you may want to rethink his inclusion
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/...890000-from-appointees-20180224&template=mwdt
If you have Cuomo on your list, you may want to rethink his inclusion
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/...890000-from-appointees-20180224&template=mwdt
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
That is crazy. But he should just cry “fake news” and “what about the emails” and “Russia” and stop mentioning it ever again.
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