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2020 Democratic Challengers

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

And you think the Democrats need to fight that by nominating John Kerry? Or Al Gore? Or Hillary Clinton again? Cause, I'll tell you what. All three of them were more qualified than the candidate they ran against. But, people wanted to have a beer with W. People hate Hillary. Now we're going to cross the chasm. Somehow there is this magical Democrat who will win because that Democrat isn't boring like Al Gore, or aloof like John Kerry, or female like Hillary Clinton. Somehow the Democrats have another Barack Obama in the tank. I have yet to see it.
I've posted the link numerous times but the problem with those candidates is that they clearly appealed to their donors but didn't have enough of a broad appeal with their base that is clearly not as affluent and is to the left of the donors. We'll see if they make that mistake again but we've seen more recently that the dems are moving left on various issues such as healthcare, college, marijuana, and those things are polling well. Hopefully this truly means there's a shift in strategy and they recognize this but we'll see.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

I've posted the link numerous times but the problem with those candidates is that they clearly appealed to their donors but didn't have enough of a broad appeal with their base that is clearly not as affluent and is to the left of the donors. We'll see if they make that mistake again but we've seen more recently that the dems are moving left on various issues such as healthcare, college, marijuana, and those things are polling well. Hopefully this truly means there's a shift in strategy and they recognize this but we'll see.

LOL. The argument is they weren't left enough? So the lefts "answer" to the right is to allow their candidates to get elected until an Obama comes around? And then they see that Obama talks the talk but ultimately can't walk the walk so they do it again when Hillary is the nominee? How ****ing stupid are these people? Really?

It's no wonder Trump is the President of the United States. And, apparently (thanks Susan Sarandon) exactly the President we wanted. Cause if we can't have Obama (even though he didn't accomplish **** for them) or Bernie (even though he's never accomplished anything either, we're taking our ball (vote) and going (staying) home.

It's no wonder the right controls every ****ing level of Government.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

LOL. The argument is they weren't left enough? So the lefts "answer" to the right is to allow their candidates to get elected until an Obama comes around? And then they see that Obama talks the talk but ultimately can't walk the walk so they do it again when Hillary is the nominee? How ****ing stupid are these people? Really?

It's no wonder Trump is the President of the United States. And, apparently (thanks Susan Sarandon) exactly the President we wanted. Cause if we can't have Obama (even though he didn't accomplish **** for them) or Bernie (even though he's never accomplished anything either, we're taking our ball (vote) and going (staying) home.

It's no wonder the right controls every ****ing level of Government.
The party needs to listen to their base or they're going to lose it's that simple. Whether people are stupid for not voting or whatever is irrelevant, it's the result that matters and the party clearly screwed up in all of those elections by not listening to their base as we can see from the results.

And we're seeing real change in that regard now so on some level the party must've received the message. At least that's my hope because if they don't we'll probably still see Trump lose but it'll just result in dems losing seats again, losing the next presidential election, and the R's will hold every seat like you just said.

And heck maybe Oprah will actually do the stuff that the base wants and allow the dems to hold power, if that happens I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The party needs to listen to their base or they're going to lose it's that simple. Whether people are stupid for not voting or whatever is irrelevant, it's the result that matters and the party clearly screwed up in all of those elections by not listening to their base as we can see from the results.

And we're seeing real change in that regard now so on some level the party must've received the message. At least that's my hope because if they don't we'll probably still see Trump lose but it'll just result in dems losing seats again, losing the next presidential election, and the R's will hold every seat like you just said.

And heck maybe Oprah will actually do the stuff that the base wants and allow the dems to hold power, if that happens I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

The base isn't big enough to get them over the hump. The GOP has the same problem. The people that vote GOP, which is different than the 33-38% base ALWAYS Vote GOP in the end. That's why they win. Democrats are so ****ing stupid.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The base isn't big enough to get them over the hump.
Actually it is, they just unthinkably won in Alabama and VA despite massive voter suppression. And the dems have always had more people than the right, they just need to vote and to get that to happen you need candidates that will actually intend to deliver something meaningful.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Actually it is, they just unthinkably won in Alabama and VA despite massive voter suppression. And the dems have always had more people than the right, they just need to vote and to get that to happen you need candidates that will actually intend to deliver something meaningful.

Good luck. Finding someone better than Obama is going to be next to impossible.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

First of all, we have no good data before the middle of the 20th century.

And I think you need to take trix' argument into consideration. There is a difference now that we haven't had for about a century: the background condition of a rising America has been flipped by conservative policies and America is now in decline for all but the super rich. It was rational behavior for people to become complacent as they got older when they were on an up escalator. But America post-Reagan is an empty elevator shaft (just as it was designed to be by the people who lied to put those policies into place). Why would people relax into conservatism when conservatism has destroyed the American middle class that liberalism built in the first place?

The decline into social conservatism with age will still exist: the bigotries they picked up as children are eroding in the wider culture so by standing in one place they appear to move to the right as their older, even more bigoted parents and mentors die off and are replaced by younger, more tolerant people.

And the Sex Envy/Anger/Futility of the Olds will always be a factor, as they respond to their diminishing powers and attractiveness by trying to force control of women's bodies and choices and promulgate the superstitious Sex Fear that the Olds are always prey to as they near death.

But decline into economic conservatism is not a natural law. It was a rational choice as people moved into the Haves, but in a broken system which is shrinking the number of Haves, you'd expect the Olds to be just as p-ssed off and ready for reform as the young.

I get your points. But not so sure. There are many poor (esp rural) today that will support the GOP regardless of what it does...and regardless of their prospects. Talk to a democrat and then to a republican. These people are hard wired. And regardless of the fact that there were no statistics before the mid 20th century...it was so obvious that John Adams positioned the aging conservatism phenomena as an open and shut case (as Sic quoted). Sadly, just don't see it.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Good luck. Finding someone better than Obama is going to be next to impossible.
They don't really need to be "better" other than delivering on their promises when they have the levers of power on their side.

There are many poor (esp rural) today that will support the GOP regardless of what it does...and regardless of their prospects.
Yes but they tend to be older and white.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

They don't really need to be "better" other than delivering on their promises when they have the levers of power on their side.

LOL

Obama tried that and failed. You evidently have no idea what happened while Obama was in office. You also apparently have no idea how the GOP accomplished what it has accomplished. I'll give you a hint. Senate rules are Senate rules. There are reasons why the tax cut had to fit into a certain box. There are reasons why the Supreme Court justice was upheld during Obama's term. There are reasons why Obama and now Trump sign so many executive orders. Getting through that logjam will not happen just because the Democrats elect Bernie Sanders this time. Turtle Boy found ways around the logjam using the Senate rules as they exist. Even then they were unable to pass the Obamacare replacement, but they did get the mandate pulled in the tax bill through the backdoor.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

LOL

Obama tried that and failed. You evidently have no idea what happened while Obama was in office.
He had a super majority early on and failed to get a public mandate and then lost all the seats in congress. That's what happened. You're right, it's not sufficient to just win the presidency, you need to flip seats in the senate and house and I'm optimistic about that because places that are traditionally safe havens for republicans no longer are in some cases. We saw that in AL and VA and might even see that in places like TN, TX, and others where polling indicates that democrats actually have a shot right now.

There are reasons why the Supreme Court justice was upheld during Obama's term.
Obama could've done the same thing Republicans did and nuked the filibuster, he didn't. Another Obama failure.
 
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I debated FDR on con law. I'm honestly not sure what depth he had on it, but he came from The Brahmin Class so he likely at least had a strong education in it.

Same on JFK. He was kinda a pretty boy dope -- the brains in that family was Bobby. Bobby would have been a 3, BTW. In fact Bobby's assassination is the worst tragedy in American political history. Without that we never have Nixon or Reagan or Cheney or Rumsfield or the Oil Quacks.

From everything I heard the other brother (Joe?) was the one most thought would be the best.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

The party needs to listen to their base or they're going to lose it's that simple. Whether people are stupid for not voting or whatever is irrelevant, it's the result that matters and the party clearly screwed up in all of those elections by not listening to their base as we can see from the results.

And we're seeing real change in that regard now so on some level the party must've received the message. At least that's my hope because if they don't we'll probably still see Trump lose but it'll just result in dems losing seats again, losing the next presidential election, and the R's will hold every seat like you just said.

And heck maybe Oprah will actually do the stuff that the base wants and allow the dems to hold power, if that happens I'm all for it. I'm just skeptical.

No offense but this wreaks of "unless I get my way 100% I'm not voting or I'm voting FOR Trump" something millions of Sanders voters did. So, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Yes, the party loses, but it loses because you cut off your nose to spite your face. I don't feel the need to coddle you guys. As I've said before, people like me aren't the ones paying the price for Trump's policies. Its far younger people than I who will take it in the shorts when you get no tuition relief while getting life without parole for smoking a joint. :D
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

No offense but this wreaks of "unless I get my way 100% I'm not voting or I'm voting FOR Trump" something millions of Sanders voters did. So, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Yes, the party loses, but it loses because you cut off your nose to spite your face. I don't feel the need to coddle you guys. As I've said before, people like me aren't the ones paying the price for Trump's policies. Its far younger people than I who will take it in the shorts when you get no tuition relief while getting life without parole for smoking a joint. :D
Trust me I'd rather Hillary be in power right now and we could go left from there ideally. But that's not what happened and the next person needs to be more in line with the base if they want people to vote for them. It doesn't get much more simple than that.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

He had a super majority early on and failed to get a public mandate and then lost all the seats in congress. That's what happened. You're right, it's not sufficient to just win the presidency, you need to flip seats in the senate and house and I'm optimistic about that because places that are traditionally safe havens for republicans no longer are in some cases. We saw that in AL and VA and might even see that in places like TN, TX, and others where polling indicates that democrats actually have a shot right now.

Obama could've done the same thing Republicans did and nuked the filibuster, he didn't. Another Obama failure.

Obama gambled on Hillary. He lost. Any time rules are changed they're changed for both parties. What the Democrats stupidly failed to realize is the one who does it first gets to stack the court for decades. Trump has had a landslide of lifetime appointments in his term. Appointments that Turtle Boy successfully stalled in Obama's terms. Democrats need to grow a sack and their voters need to stop being so stupid.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Well we can hope thousands of voters just start doing what you want them to do or hope the party actually listens to what they want. I think we both know what the more viable strategy is.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers

Well we can hope thousands of voters just start doing what you want them to do or hope the party actually listens to what they want. I think we both know what the more viable strategy is.

And now you know why I predict GOP so much. They vote. And they vote for their party. I understand what your argument is but your solution is flawed. Just giving the "left" what they want is not going to solve the problem. Cause, invariably, they're not going to get what they want. Do you honestly think any of the idiots that voted for Trump are actually getting what they voted for?
 
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