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2020 Democratic Challengers
- Thread starter Kepler
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Polls at this point are strictly name recognition. I wouldn't put much stock in any of them.
Polls at this point are strictly name recognition. I wouldn't put much stock in any of them.
unofan
Well-known member
The president has no control over Senate procedures.
unofan
Well-known member
That if the vote happened right this second, she'd win. Nothing more.
The Sicatoka
Kicizapi Cetan
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Even if he has a pen and a phone?
C'mon, someone had to say it.
Even if he has a pen and a phone?
C'mon, someone had to say it.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
True. But, here's the problem. Everything Obama got done was by Executive Order. So, it never really became law. And, because of that President Orange ****wad was able to change it all immediately.
Obama has Obamacare and his two Supreme Court Justices.
Trump has his tax cut and his Supreme Court Justice.
Beyond that it's all window dressing.
True. But, here's the problem. Everything Obama got done was by Executive Order. So, it never really became law. And, because of that President Orange ****wad was able to change it all immediately.
Obama has Obamacare and his two Supreme Court Justices.
Trump has his tax cut and his Supreme Court Justice.
Beyond that it's all window dressing.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Missing a few other things such as Dodd-Frank or tax hikes on the rich. However the overall point is a good one which is its better to pass laws than executive orders. I'd also say we were fighting less wars around the world under Obama's tenure.
Missing a few other things such as Dodd-Frank or tax hikes on the rich. However the overall point is a good one which is its better to pass laws than executive orders. I'd also say we were fighting less wars around the world under Obama's tenure.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Ok not him specifically but the dems had power early on and didn't wield it as well as they should've, Obama has a lot of sway in that regard even if he doesn't directly control senate procedures. Thank you for pointing that out though rather than being a tool.
I never said he got literally nothing done. Yes Dodd Frank was good and necessary following a financial crisis. Getting out of Iraq was a good thing too, watered down ACA was better than nothing. He did the bare minimum.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
They blew their entire wad on trying to get the Health Care law passed through regular order. And, despite doing that the correct way they had that very thing used against them in every election since. I can hardly wait for 2020 Obama to pass his/her first law and have it rammed down their throats so it can put the Republicans back in power again.
They blew their entire wad on trying to get the Health Care law passed through regular order. And, despite doing that the correct way they had that very thing used against them in every election since. I can hardly wait for 2020 Obama to pass his/her first law and have it rammed down their throats so it can put the Republicans back in power again.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Was there no other option than regular order? Because I don't think the Republicans currently give two ****s about that. I get that they were able to use reconciliation for the last two pieces of legislature and I'm assuming that couldn't be used to pass ACA but either way it doesn't really change the fact that not securing a public option* was the biggest issue that caused the loss of many seats in the house/senate.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Let's say there was. Then the GOP narrative would have been even better and they would have destroyed the Democrats even more. You want a public mandate you better win. Public mandates are easy when your trying to save babies, or you're giving tax cuts, or you're fighting arabs. They're not so easy when you're giving someone else Health Care or giving citizenship to illegals.
Let's say there was. Then the GOP narrative would have been even better and they would have destroyed the Democrats even more. You want a public mandate you better win. Public mandates are easy when your trying to save babies, or you're giving tax cuts, or you're fighting arabs. They're not so easy when you're giving someone else Health Care or giving citizenship to illegals.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Sorry I used the wrong term, public option is what I was going for, that was originally slated to be included in the original version of ACA and people like Liebermann were the holdouts. Apologies for not being more clear on that.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
It was a mistake not to include it but if they had they would have lost even more seats than they did. Winning the public over on Government takeover of anything vs. freedom is a tough sell. People are too stupid to understand it.
It was a mistake not to include it but if they had they would have lost even more seats than they did. Winning the public over on Government takeover of anything vs. freedom is a tough sell. People are too stupid to understand it.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
A watered down version of ACA where you just fine people who don't buy something that already costs too much and has some obscene deductible didn't really help all that much. Now I get that the pre-existing condition portion, getting rid of plan maximums, and some of the other provisions of it were good and did help a lot of people but it's not hard to see why this compromise didn't make voters happy considering how much power the dems had at the time.
I don't think that's true, if you show them that it works and it helps them it's a winning issue. It's gotten incredibly popular and even a lot of people on the right want to see healthcare reformed in some way and we've seen the dems move further left on this exact issue in recent times.
A watered down version of ACA where you just fine people who don't buy something that already costs too much and has some obscene deductible didn't really help all that much. Now I get that the pre-existing condition portion, getting rid of plan maximums, and some of the other provisions of it were good and did help a lot of people but it's not hard to see why this compromise didn't make voters happy considering how much power the dems had at the time.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Yeah, but that's what they couldn't help doing. It had to be paid for. The Republicans can always add to the debt. The Democrats can't. Another dynamic that makes no sense. Since it had to be paid for people really got to see how much pre-existing conditions cost because we all started to pay for them instead of just letting the families go bankrupt.
Yeah, but that's what they couldn't help doing. It had to be paid for. The Republicans can always add to the debt. The Democrats can't. Another dynamic that makes no sense. Since it had to be paid for people really got to see how much pre-existing conditions cost because we all started to pay for them instead of just letting the families go bankrupt.
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
The fact that the ACA is now more popular when its threatened with repeal vs when it was enacted proves that voters are idiots. Mind you that's not a campaign slogan you can run on
but if people are now so concerned with maintaining the law, they should have shown up during the 2010, 2014 and 2016 elections. Yes, the public option isn't in there but its an extraordinarily liberal law in terms of mandating insurance companies spend 80% of premiums on care, can't deny due to pre-existing conditions, massive expansion of Medicaid, out of pocket maximums, no lifetime limits, etc etc etc. Also paid for by higher taxes on the rich, most likely the real reason Republicans hate it.
The fact that the ACA is now more popular when its threatened with repeal vs when it was enacted proves that voters are idiots. Mind you that's not a campaign slogan you can run on
but if people are now so concerned with maintaining the law, they should have shown up during the 2010, 2014 and 2016 elections. Yes, the public option isn't in there but its an extraordinarily liberal law in terms of mandating insurance companies spend 80% of premiums on care, can't deny due to pre-existing conditions, massive expansion of Medicaid, out of pocket maximums, no lifetime limits, etc etc etc. Also paid for by higher taxes on the rich, most likely the real reason Republicans hate it.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Plenty of blame for the DNC for ramming through the nomination of corporate toadies, identity princesses, and party apparatchiks.
Companies that blame the customer for not buying their sh-tty product go out of business.
Nobody wants to buy the old CorporateDem crap anymore. The Dems thrive when they are a real left party, and they die when they are Republican Lite.
Plenty of blame for the DNC for ramming through the nomination of corporate toadies, identity princesses, and party apparatchiks.
Companies that blame the customer for not buying their sh-tty product go out of business.
Nobody wants to buy the old CorporateDem crap anymore. The Dems thrive when they are a real left party, and they die when they are Republican Lite.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
Yet the Republicans continue to feed their voters a **** sandwich and they keep coming back for more.
Yet the Republicans continue to feed their voters a **** sandwich and they keep coming back for more.
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers
I don't think it's more popular now, I just think more people were forced to actually pay attention after Trump got elected unfortunately. But I can't really blame people for being mad about how the whole process of getting ACA in the first place and what it left out. And for being ****ed at dems for royally screwing up when they had the power to do something more substantial especially when it happened because of corporate dems like Liebermann selling out.
I don't think it's more popular now, I just think more people were forced to actually pay attention after Trump got elected unfortunately. But I can't really blame people for being mad about how the whole process of getting ACA in the first place and what it left out. And for being ****ed at dems for royally screwing up when they had the power to do something more substantial especially when it happened because of corporate dems like Liebermann selling out.
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