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2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Spartanforlife4 said:
Only thinking about yourself is more of a right leaning moderate thing.
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I never had student loans, but I see that college affordability is a huge problem. My wife had some student loans -- her parents felt that it was 100% her responsibility to pay for college. It was pretty frustrating that they provided $0 financial help -- they even acquired more debt (buy new vehicles, etc) so the school would calculate a lower "expected family contribution". Neither of her parents had gone to college -- they wanted her to, but just didn't want to help pay for it apparently. On the other hand, both my parents were educators and were able to pay for 100% of my out-of-pocket costs at a state school (I did qualify for a couple academic scholarships, but most of those were only 1-year, I didn't get any need-based aid) -- but that's because they planned ahead, saved my entire life, and made some sacrifices.

I don't know what you could do to take care of the people that had no choice but to take out large loans while not ****ing off the people that had families that planned ahead, saved, and passed up their "dream school" for a lower-cost option.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

BassAle said:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-liberal-arts-degree-low-pay-not-necessarily/

a liberal arts degree salaries start lower, but can earn more after a decade than an engineering degree
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% of those libarts who are making coin due to their graduate degree???

very important missing piece. mookie would guess over 1/2 went to grad school (MBA?!?!) and then got hired because they had an ivy to hang on the wall in the office.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

mookie1995 said:
% of those libarts who are making coin due to their graduate degree???

very important missing piece. mookie would guess over 1/2 went to grad school (MBA?!?!) and then got hired because they had an ivy to hang on the wall in the office.
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the other half finally had access to their trust funds when they hit 30 (10yr post graduation) and are rolling in the 1% passive income buckets.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

wolverineTrumpet said:
I like Warren. I like that she thinks through the economics and has plans to help the middle class.

If we're going to talk about loans that can't be paid for, let's talk about how republicans run up our national debt.
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The problem with Warren (and she's my #1 pick right now) is she's hated like Hillary and no one cares about fleshed out ideas that are thoughtful and could actually work. Hillary had tons of policy ideas too. Trump had none. Having policy ideas is meaningless.
 
BassAle said:
I never had student loans, but I see that college affordability is a huge problem. My wife had some student loans -- her parents felt that it was 100% her responsibility to pay for college. It was pretty frustrating that they provided $0 financial help -- they even acquired more debt (buy new vehicles, etc) so the school would calculate a lower "expected family contribution". Neither of her parents had gone to college -- they wanted her to, but just didn't want to help pay for it apparently. On the other hand, both my parents were educators and were able to pay for 100% of my out-of-pocket costs at a state school (I did qualify for a couple academic scholarships, but most of those were only 1-year, I didn't get any need-based aid) -- but that's because they planned ahead, saved my entire life, and made some sacrifices.

I don't know what you could do to take care of the people that had no choice but to take out large loans while not ****ing off the people that had families that planned ahead, saved, and passed up their "dream school" for a lower-cost option.
Click to expand...

I think there are a fair amount of people who can afford the principal but not the interest. As is par for the course, the media doesn’t do a very good job explaining the issue.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Democrats have a big problem right now. It's their responsibility to impeach because that is what is warranted in this case. And, yet they cannot impeach because every swing vote in the country will get mad at them and reelect the Orange Baboon. And Mueller did them no favors. It is obvious he left it up to them the way he wrote the report.

Rock and a Hard Place.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

ScoobyDoo said:
(1) she's hated like Hillary and (2) no one cares about fleshed out ideas that are thoughtful and could actually work. Hillary had tons of policy ideas too. Trump had none. Having policy ideas is meaningless.
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(1) It's not that extreme. The Noise Machine had 25 years to work their gulls into a lather over Hillary. Fox et al have tried to move that lock, stock, and barrel to Warren, but I don't think they've entirely succeeded. In any case, R voters don't matter. The question is is there any sort of resistance among D voters to Warren the way there was for Hillary? I see none for the simple reason that Hillary deserved resistance while Warren does not.

(2) This is your reflex pessimism, not any sort of observation. Granted, the Dummies don't care about policy; they care about the sound bites which are the most their entertainment-dulled brains can contain. But: (a) most Dummies are Dumpies and they don't matter, and (b) the one place where the vast middle ground of sullen, bovine suburban mediocrites will actually take a moment to tolerate ideas is when their money is on the line, and Warren speaks directly to kitchen table issues. The great thing about Warren is she isn't talking about abstract ideas or identity politics. She's talking about income stagnation and debt and housing -- middle class money. That is the sweet spot of the post-Plute traumatized American electorate and it is underserved by the political class. Republicans can't speak to it because they destroyed the middle class. Democrats won't speak to it because they are caught up with the shibboleths they learned in Grievance Studies classes at Progressive Privilege University (go Fighting Intersectionals!)

I think Warren has the winning message. She's a 172-year old schoolmarm, and that aint great optically, but she's legit to the soles of her Mom sneakers, and that will tell over the long course. That's why the Echo Chamber is trying to attack her on honesty -- that's what they do: take the target's greatest strength and attempt to invert it.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Kepler said:
(1) It's not that extreme. The Noise Machine had 25 years to work their gulls into a lather over Hillary. Fox et al have tried to move that lock, stock, and barrel to Warren, but I don't think they've entirely succeeded. In any case, R voters don't matter. The question is is there any sort of resistance among D voters to Warren the way there was for Hillary? I see none for the simple reason that Hillary deserved resistance while Warren does not.

(2) This is your reflex pessimism, not any sort of observation. Granted, the Dummies don't care about policy; they care about the sound bites which are the most their entertainment-dulled brains can contain. But: (a) most Dummies are Dumpies and they don't matter, and (b) the one place where the vast middle ground of sullen, bovine suburban mediocrites will actually take a moment to tolerate ideas is when their money is on the line, and Warren speaks directly to kitchen table issues. The great thing about Warren is she isn't talking about abstract ideas or identity politics. She's talking about income stagnation and debt and housing -- middle class money. That is the sweet spot of the post-Plute traumatized American electorate and it is underserved by the political class. Republicans can't speak to it because they destroyed the middle class. Democrats won't speak to it because they are caught up with the shibboleths they learned in Grievance Studies classes at Progressive Privilege University (go Fighting Intersectionals!)

I think Warren has the winning message. She's a 172-year old schoolmarm, and that aint great optically, but she's legit to the soles of her Mom sneakers, and that will tell over the long course. That's why the Echo Chamber is trying to attack her on honesty -- that's what they do: take the target's greatest strength and attempt to invert it.
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No, it's not my pessimism it's fact. Look at this thread over the last 16 hours. The college policy Warren has published is solid middle class tax/finance policy. Yet the one centrist that commented on it won't vote for it because of some libertarian slant. Also, it's more than obvious not a single Republican gets elected on policy. That's 50% of the country give or take.

Warren really has no shot at the nomination. She's pulling a Bernie from last time. She's trying to get her ideas on the Democratic Agenda.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Warren has been my choice from the get go, although now I'm super worried that Scooby is supporting her. :eek: Its really, really hard to shake off Scooby Stink. I recall the Pats-Eagles Super Bowl. The greatest dynasty of all time against a team who'd never won playing a back up QB. I was ready to bet the mortgage on a win. THEN, I read out here that Scooby was rooting for the Pats. :mad: I cancelled any wager I was prepared to make and frankly expected a blow out. Its a credit to Brady/Belichick that the game was even close. :D

Having said all that, we all have a stake in Warren going as far as she can. She's excellent at framing issues (why shouldn't the super rich help fund education for the middle and working class???). Her proposals are well thought out and whoever ends up being the nominee should incorporate them. IMHO nobody running today has done more to move the national discussion left than she has.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Rover said:
Warren has been my choice from the get go, although now I'm super worried that Scooby is supporting her. :eek: Its really, really hard to shake off Scooby Stink. I recall the Pats-Eagles Super Bowl. The greatest dynasty of all time against a team who'd never won playing a back up QB. I was ready to bet the mortgage on a win. THEN, I read out here that Scooby was rooting for the Pats. :mad: I cancelled any wager I was prepared to make and frankly expected a blow out. Its a credit to Brady/Belichick that the game was even close. :D

Having said all that, we all have a stake in Warren going as far as she can. She's excellent at framing issues (why shouldn't the super rich help fund education for the middle and working class???). Her proposals are well thought out and whoever ends up being the nominee should incorporate them. IMHO nobody running today has done more to move the national discussion left than she has.
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Nothing would make me happier than her winning and being able to actually get things passed into Law.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

ScoobyDoo said:
Nothing would make me happier than her winning and being able to actually get things passed into Law.
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No dice Scoobs. Nothing would make you happier than her losing to Trump so you could whine incessantly out here from then until the End Of Days.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Rover said:
No dice Scoobs. Nothing would make you happier than her losing to Trump so you could whine incessantly out here from then until the End Of Days.
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Fine. Believe what you want.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Rover said:
Warren has been my choice from the get go, although now I'm super worried that Scooby is supporting her. :eek: Its really, really hard to shake off Scooby Stink. I recall the Pats-Eagles Super Bowl. The greatest dynasty of all time against a team who'd never won playing a back up QB. I was ready to bet the mortgage on a win. THEN, I read out here that Scooby was rooting for the Pats. :mad: I cancelled any wager I was prepared to make and frankly expected a blow out. Its a credit to Brady/Belichick that the game was even close. :D

Having said all that, we all have a stake in Warren going as far as she can. She's excellent at framing issues (why shouldn't the super rich help fund education for the middle and working class???). Her proposals are well thought out and whoever ends up being the nominee should incorporate them. IMHO nobody running today has done more to move the national discussion left than she has.
Click to expand...

Warren has what the Left always needs in America: she makes leftist issues live for the middle class. A true Radical Left doesn't exist here because our working class is reactionary. The source of an effective American political revolution coming from the left has to be the middle class. The GOP has made that a possibility because they have driven the middle class to the brink of impoverishment, exactly as they intended back in the late 70s. Once the middle class understands that remaining on Reagan's course dooms them to poverty they will correctly identify the rich as their enemy and react accordingly. It happened in 1932 so it can happen again.

Warren is the next step in that political evolution. The fact that both you and I support her suggests to me that we have a very broad and strong coalition between us.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

Warren is a good ideator and administrator, but a poor tactician who lacks charisma with folks outside of the professorial class. Ergo, she should stay in the Senate and stump hard for someone like Bernie whose platform her ideas dovetail with.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

BassAle said:
I never had student loans, but I see that college affordability is a huge problem. My wife had some student loans -- her parents felt that it was 100% her responsibility to pay for college. It was pretty frustrating that they provided $0 financial help -- they even acquired more debt (buy new vehicles, etc) so the school would calculate a lower "expected family contribution". Neither of her parents had gone to college -- they wanted her to, but just didn't want to help pay for it apparently. On the other hand, both my parents were educators and were able to pay for 100% of my out-of-pocket costs at a state school (I did qualify for a couple academic scholarships, but most of those were only 1-year, I didn't get any need-based aid) -- but that's because they planned ahead, saved my entire life, and made some sacrifices.

I don't know what you could do to take care of the people that had no choice but to take out large loans while not ****ing off the people that had families that planned ahead, saved, and passed up their "dream school" for a lower-cost option.
Click to expand...

I took out loans, but was fortunate enough to be put into a situation where I could pay them off early. I’m in the camp that believes it would be better, not just financially, but mentally as well, for the nation if college were to be tuition free.

I know a couple others in my situation who feel that it wouldn’t be fair for them to pay back their loans only to have others either get them forgiven, or for new students to have no tuition, and I just don’t have that same mindset. Why anyone would want others to have to go through the stress of student loans is beyond me. I know I’d be much better off if I could have put all that money into the market or at the very least into a high yield account. I can’t imagine wanting people to go through the same thing simply because I did. It’s not a tough summer job or hard sports conditioning, it’s years of debt. That shouldn’t be something we make others go through because “I did it and I made it out ok.”
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

I'd simplify it to say you get one shot at free college tuition to a public university with say a 5 year window to earn a degree. Those who still want to pony up for an Ivy League degree are free to do so. Likewise it would cut down on the career student issue. As far as what to say to people who saved to pay up for college in the past, just do what I do. Blame the Republicans for stopping this from happening sooner. ;)
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Who ISN'T Running At This Point?

There is a middle way. Free from now on, no debt relief. Then nobody feels there was a bait and switch on their saving.

I'd prefer to go the other way: soak the rich and repay the middle class people who paid for the loans, along with canceling all existing loans. Basically, eat the rich. They got a 40-year spending spree and bankrupted America. F-ck them.
 
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