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2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

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rufus said:
No idea what the eff you're trying to get at. Not everyone wants to be, or is qualified to be an engineer or the head of a water works dept.

And last I knew, plumbers get paid very well. Very well indeed.
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(that’s the point)

If the argument is that certain jobs shouldn’t pay a living wage because there’s something “better” to attain, then where is that line?
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Spartanforlife4 said:
At what level does a job become a career? Why should the HVAC employee be paid well when he could be an engineer who designs the systems? Why should the plumber be paid well when he could be the head of city water works?
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I can't speak to the rest of the country, but my brother is an HVAC guy, and he's done quite well for himself, attaining a master's certification. Around here, the Pipefitter's Union handles both plumbers and HVAC fields. Here's a good estimates of the hourly wages he gets (he's on the high end), and this does not include benefits, which are another 50-60% of his wages. LINK.

From the stories I've heard, they're paid well because when they're installing roof top heaters and A/C units, either the engineers or the manufacturing plant have fouled them up so much that they require a massive overhaul just to work.

And he didn't get an engineering degree because he couldn't hack it in a classroom. He does quite well when you put a tool in his hand, though. It's almost savant-like, what he can do with something mechanical.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

St. Clown said:
I can't speak to the rest of the country, but my brother is an HVAC guy, and he's done quite well for himself, attaining a master's certification. Around here, the Pipefitter's Union handles both plumbers and HVAC fields. Here's a good estimates of the hourly wages he gets (he's on the high end), and this does not include benefits, which are another 50-60% of his wages. LINK.

From the stories I've heard, they're paid well because when they're installing roof top heaters and A/C units, either the engineers or the manufacturing plant have fouled them up so much that they require a massive overhaul just to work.

And he didn't get an engineering degree because he couldn't hack it in a classroom. He does quite well when you put a tool in his hand, though. It's almost savant-like, what he can do with something mechanical.
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They get paid well because not everyone can or wants do their job just like any other profession.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

walrus said:
They get paid well because not everyone can or wants do their job just like any other profession.
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Right. My point is this, though: they get paid well, much better than the average person in my office building, because their skillset is rarer than most other peoples'. Don't get me wrong, there are people here earning well over what the Pipefitters Union members are earning, but the mead/median/mode are likely all below the union's labor rates - especially with the benefits package. And most of the people here paid for a 4-yr degree while my brother attended the vo-tech school for two years.

Then again, it's always 72F and fluorescent in my office building, not raining, blistering hot, or mind-numbingly cold like the union guys face.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Anybody here want to teach school? They face difficult conditions and they aren't paid jack sh-t.

Rarity of skill is only one of several causes of salary. Unpleasant work tends to pay terribly even though most people aren't willing to do it. The major driver of salary is status, unless very strong unions are involved. The rich control compensation and rig it to compensate themselves the most. It's exactly like feudalism.

Science and sports are meritocratic. Everything else is naked power.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

I LOVE Warren’s plan to require 40% of the board be elected by employees. I didn’t know this was part of her plan for years.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

This was an EXCELLENT answer by Warren on her supposed "punitive" policies.
 
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