2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Blue collar jobs. Like LL Bean? When I started working there 26 years ago my starting wage was 42% higher than minimum wage. The current starting wage is 13% higher than minimum wage. Is that the "rather well" you mean?

Of course, back then it was family owned. Now it isn't.

Manufacturing, HVAC, mechanic, etc. You know, the jobs that have the stigma of "stupid people take those jobs," "I need a college degree so I don't end up in one of those jobs," that type of blue collar.

 

[ticapnews]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

I guess the requirements for those jobs are different out west. Here you have to have at least a year of experience and a license (or a 2 year degree). A quick Google search shows jobs that have been available all year because no one has the license or experience. It's the usual trap. You can't get a job unless you have the experience, but you can't get the necessary experience because no one will hire you.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Min wage jobs are TRAINING JOBS. They are not meant to sustain a career. They are stepping stones. Simple as that. When I first started out, it wasn't at my current company. It was the food court at the local mall and a small, privately owned family company. Those jobs gave me the knowledge and lessons to advance in other jobs. And it paid off.

So explain why people end up working said honest jobs (and they are) for years and years...

You're a good guy, Rube. You worked the food court at some "local mall" (the MoA? ) after dropping out of college and now you drive a forklift and make decent money plus get 10-15 days PTO? That's arguably the American Dream™. I wish more average kids would be able to escape college/uni and do their two years of community college + apprentice to an accountant or consultant or whatever.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

So explain why people end up working said honest jobs (and they are) for years and years...

You're a good guy, Rube. You worked the food court at some "local mall" (the MoA? ) after dropping out of college and now you drive a forklift and make decent money plus get 10-15 days PTO? That's arguably the American Dream™. I wish more average kids would be able to escape college/uni and do their two years of community college + apprentice to an accountant or consultant or whatever.

Hah.

Yeah, more than a living wage, 6 weeks PTO (and in 2 years, that is raised), health benefits out the arse, etc. I have actually passed over mgmt recommendations, because I don't want to relocate to northern CA, SC, or FLA. So have fun at my expense, further the stigma. If one wants to make good money, it's out there, but guess what, you have to work for it/take a less glamorous job.

 

[unofan]

Min wage is the "here's your training for a real living job."

Wrong.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Hah.

Yeah, more than a living wage, 6 weeks PTO (and in 2 years, that is raised), health benefits out the arse, etc. I have actually passed over mgmt recommendations, because I don't want to relocate to northern CA, SC, or FLA. So have fun at my expense, further the stigma. If one wants to make good money, it's out there, but guess what, you have to work for it/take a less glamorous job.

Furthering what stigma? No one is saying don’t go blue collar. We’re saying everyone should be paid more. I can’t remember if they made them stop doing it, but Walmart and McDonald’s used to hand out food stamp apps with their hiring papers. That shouldn’t be necessary because they should be paying them enough in the first place.

The blue collar positions aren’t paying enough either, but just because those aren’t doesn’t mean other areas should be kept lower by default.

 

[rufus]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Secondary point, half the time, anecdotal, those workers can't even get their job right in the first place. It's a McJob for a reason. It's an entry level job to teach you to advance in the job market.

You been in a McD's lately? 30, 40, 50 year olds manning the counter. And I'm not talking about the management.

It's not an entry level job anymore. it's a second income job for men and women who need more than one income to live. It's a job for older people who are either waiting for retirement, or need more than SS to live on. That's the way it is in AmeriKKKa today.

 

[rufus]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Manufacturing, HVAC, mechanic, etc. You know, the jobs that have the stigma of "stupid people take those jobs," "I need a college degree so I don't end up in one of those jobs," that type of blue collar.

You also need some sort of higher education for most of those "stupid people jobs" as you term them. You see all the HVAC training school ads. How do you do that, how do you pay for that, when you're working 60+ hours/week at your "McJob" trying to feed your family?

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

As someone who spent the last 10 years in retail, there is minimal movement upwards now. And the movement that is there takes you from $9-11/hour to $11-14/hour. Ironically, it's boomers who have spent their careers in retail that are preventing the upward movement. They are in the same management positions now that they have been in for 20+ years. Also with the various mass failures of larger retail operations, you have people with 20+ years experience at levels above the job being hired for competing against people in their 20s. Who do you think is going to be hired? Remember, it's all about what's listed on a resume. The interview means nothing.

I know I've posted my deal here before. This segment of the political debate really hits home for me. Many of us in our 30s had the rug pulled out from below our feet and we were never given an honest chance. Those "McJobs" became reality through need, not by choice. You also pigeon hole yourself by working these jobs. There absolutely is a stigma against someone who has 10 years of retail. People at "real" jobs ask themselves "Why has this person not done anything with their degree?" in the 10 years they've been out of school. In the modern job market, employers are looking for any little thing to eliminate someone. Some of those things are legit and related to the ability to do the job. The "cost" of the person is another factor. I've seen resumes turned down at my employer because the person's resume gave the impression that they would want too high of wage. They feel that these people are a "flight risk". They know exactly what they are getting with the low wages and will fight tooth and nail to keep it.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

You also need some sort of higher education for most of those "stupid people jobs" as you term them. You see all the HVAC training school ads. How do you do that, how do you pay for that, when you're working 60+ hours/week at your "McJob" trying to feed your family?

Well, in regards to those HVAC schools, the payoff is relatively immediate after 2 years of training. Assuming your state has a strong Pipefitters Union, that person can take out a student loan that's not usually very large, and then make an apprentice's wage scale for a few years before becoming a journeyman, and then a master, if they're motivated.

 

[ticapnews]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Sample budget for McDonald's employees

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...mum-wages-need-second-job-make-ends-meet.html

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/xC62wNP/article-0-1-AD88-C15000005-DC-503-634x354.jpg" alt="article-0-1-AD88-C15000005-DC-503-634x354" border="0" height="300">

I'm curious what health insurance that only costs $20/month covers. Hey, is heat free in Minnesota?

Bear in mind this assumes you will work a second job...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

The trades are all hard work, but you can make a decent wage. However, buyer beware. I remember a few years ago I read an article of someone complaining that they went to school to be a welder because of the high pay and then didn't get anywhere near what they expected when they graduated. And that's really really hard work. I worked with some welders early in my career. Not what I would consider "fun" work. I have a cousin in HVAC that makes pretty good money. Everything always depends.

 

[ticapnews]

Well, in regards to those HVAC schools, the payoff is relatively immediate after 2 years of training. Assuming your state has a strong Pipefitters Union, that person can take out a student loan that's not usually very large, and then make an apprentice's wage scale for a few years before becoming a journeyman, and then a master, if they're motivated.

Union? You dirty Commie! No one needs a union; the company will look out for your best interests.

 

[rufus]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Well, in regards to those HVAC schools, the payoff is relatively immediate after 2 years of training. Assuming your state has a strong Pipefitters Union, that person can take out a student loan that's not usually very large, and then make an apprentice's wage scale for a few years before becoming a journeyman, and then a master, if they're motivated.

So what do they live on during those two years of training? When they're already working one or two jobs already, and maybe taking care of a family as well, with a husband or wife also working one or two jobs?

My neighbor next door did the HVAC school and was working fulltime in that field. Left it to go bartend.

 

[ticapnews]

So what do they live on during those two years of training? When they're already working one or two jobs already, and maybe taking care of a family as well, with a husband or wife also working one or two jobs?

My neighbor next door did the HVAC school and was working fulltime in that field. Left it to go bartend.

Duh. Just get a "small" loan of a few million dollars from their parents to tide them over.

 

[rufus]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Sample budget for McDonald's employees

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...mum-wages-need-second-job-make-ends-meet.html

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/xC62wNP/article-0-1-AD88-C15000005-DC-503-634x354.jpg" alt="article-0-1-AD88-C15000005-DC-503-634x354" border="0" height="300">

I'm curious what health insurance that only costs $20/month covers. Hey, is heat free in Minnesota?

Bear in mind this assumes you will work a second job...

$2060/month income? At $10/hr, that's 50 hours a week. $600 rent? For what, the cheapest studio in the worst part of town? One bedrooms in my town are probably about $800+, and there are very few of them, because anyone with a place available for rent can make more than that just doing Airbnb for a weekend.

$150/month car payment? No heat? Cable and phone for $100?

 

[rufus]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Duh. Just get a "small" loan of a few million dollars from their parents to tide them over.

Who're you, Mitt Romney?

 

[aparch]

Well, in regards to those HVAC schools, the payoff is relatively immediate after 2 years of training. Assuming your state has a strong Pipefitters Union, that person can take out a student loan that's not usually very large, and then make an apprentice's wage scale for a few years before becoming a journeyman, and then a master, if they're motivated.

Four to five years with some trades here in Chicagoland. Makes it tough unless you can catch on with a good company and work through the year, otherwise you're collecting unemployment until spring when called from the hall... if you get a call back.

 

[mookie1995]

Sample budget for McDonald's employees

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...mum-wages-need-second-job-make-ends-meet.html

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/xC62wNP/article-0-1-AD88-C15000005-DC-503-634x354.jpg" alt="article-0-1-AD88-C15000005-DC-503-634x354" border="0" height="300">

I'm curious what health insurance that only costs $20/month covers. Hey, is heat free in Minnesota?

Bear in mind this assumes you will work a second job...

If you work at McDonald’s you eat there

Other can be augmented giving hummers. Good money . Protein too

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers Vi: The Undiscovered Country

Four to five years with some trades here in Chicagoland. Makes it tough unless you can catch on with a good company and work through the year, otherwise you're collecting unemployment until spring when called from the hall... if you get a call back.

I know electricians can get paid training around here. My friend's kid is doing just that.