2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I give up. All this exchange has done is shown there are two issues rather than just the initial one that you have poorly informed views of.

I don't have "your" views. Not saying right or wrong, but rather than disagree and discuss, it's "dismiss." No worries. I'm used to it.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Pretty sure the #1 complaint in Spain is wait times. Americans are more likely to die waiting for service than Spaniards.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Pretty sure the #1 complaint in Spain is wait times. Americans are more likely to die waiting for service than Spaniards.

Hate to do this, but it gets pulled on me: source?

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

OECD is one of the best sources for country comparison data.

 

[aparch]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Shhhhh. No one tell Rube that in Finland automobile speeding ticket fines are set to a percentage of your income.

 

[Stauber1]

I don't have "your" views. Not saying right or wrong, but rather than disagree and discuss, it's "dismiss." No worries. I'm used to it.

It's not about disagreement in views, it's about lack of information in forming them.

You don't understand what a progressive tax system is, you don't know what out of pocket costs are for Americans for things that are government sponsored elsewhere, you don't know how the Canadian health system manages medical priorities or have a grasp for the actual wait times for different types of priorities, and you don't know the reasons for the wait times that do exist (not to mention what seems to be an idealized perception of American health care that doesn't match reality).

I've tried to have a discussion, bit it's tough when you insist on being so unwilling to accept the need to better educate yourself on some of these things.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I hate to say it, but you give off the impression of someone who has based their opinions entirely on water-cooler talk and neighborhood gossip, but never taken the time to obtain real information.

All I can say is do a little bit of homework. Again, it doesn't take much but you have to be willing to do a little bit.

But it's a duck either way. Put aside the issue as to weather it takes 4-6 weeks to get a particular surgery here or 6-8 in Canada. Or how many specialists you need to enlist to convince your insurance company it's something that you really do need, or whether you need to obtain legal aid to show it's something they actually must cover.

We're talking about tax rates and what else you need to consider when making comparisons.

I see no questions here. Just dismissals.

 

[Stauber1]

I see no questions here. Just dismissals.

You're ducking again, man.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

I hate to say it, but you give off the impression of someone who has based their opinions entirely on water-cooler talk and neighborhood gossip, but never taken the time to obtain real information.

All I can say is do a little bit of homework. Again, it doesn't take much but you have to be willing to do a little bit.

But it's a duck either way. Put aside the issue as to weather it takes 4-6 weeks to get a particular surgery here or 6-8 in Canada. Or how many specialists you need to enlist to convince your insurance company it's something that you really do need, or whether you need to obtain legal aid to show it's something they actually must cover.

We're talking about tax rates and what else you need to consider when making comparisons.

You're ducking again, man.

Another dismissal.

 

[Stauber1]

Another dismissal.

And you'll never have to examine anything if every time it is suggested to you, you're being unfairly treated.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

And you'll never have to examine anything if every time it is suggested to you, you're being unfairly treated.

bs (c) Scooby

Not sure what that means, but apparently it a legit response.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

It's old, but: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112014770

The most common complaint of patients is the long wait to see specialists and undergo certain procedures. On the other hand, a study published last year in the U.S. journal Health Affairs found that in Spain, there are a third fewer deaths caused by delayed access to health care than in the United States.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

How did cricket get in the discussion? You're talking about ducks and dismissals. If somebody brings up DRS, I'll pull what hair I have remaining out!

Seriously, look at France and see what you can steal. From what I read, it's not NHS,but it's not the free for all you have here

As it is, Big Pharma rules all with Big Insurance playing god.

 

[BassAle]

Hello, left field.

Electing Trump was not acceptable, so don't know where that came from.

And really check out Canada as to the "health care for all." It's not like here. "Oh there's something wrong, I'll just walk right in." Not there.

Lol, in many places in the US you might have to wait 3-6 months to see some kinds of specialists.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

It's not about disagreement in views, it's about lack of information in forming them.

You don't understand what a progressive tax system is, you don't know what out of pocket costs are for Americans for things that are government sponsored elsewhere, you don't know how the Canadian health system manages medical priorities or have a grasp for the actual wait times for different types of priorities, and you don't know the reasons for the wait times that do exist (not to mention what seems to be an idealized perception of American health care that doesn't match reality).

I've tried to have a discussion, bit it's tough when you insist on being so unwilling to accept the need to better educate yourself on some of these things.

Good post.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

bs (c) Scooby

Not sure what that means, but apparently it a legit response.

Wow. You can't even do that right.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

As it is, Big Pharma rules all with Big Insurance playing god.

It's all about the Benjamins.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

60% 56%? You kidding me? You are paying more than taking in? I don't care how much you make, that's bull*.
Denmark’s top marginal effective income tax rate is 60.4 percent. Sweden’s is 56.4 percent (from the article)

Study up:

OECD Better Life Index Demnark
Why Danes Happily Pay High Rates of Taxes

Denmark has one of the highest tax rates in the world, which is often mentioned as one of the biggest objections against the Danish welfare model. The average annual income in Denmark is about 39,000 euros (nearly $43,000) and as such, the average Dane pays a total amount of 45 percent in income taxes. Danish income taxes are based on a progressive tax system, so if you make more than 61,500 euros (about $67,000) per year, an additional tax rate of 7 percent is added over this threshold.

Neverthless, a Gallup survey from 2014 showed that almost nine out of 10 Danish people happily pay their taxes to some or a high degree.

The reason behind the high level of support for the welfare state in Denmark is the awareness of the fact that the welfare model turns our collective wealth into well-being. We are not paying taxes. We are investing in our society. We are purchasing quality of life.

The key to understanding the high levels of happiness in Denmark is the welfare model's ability to reduce risks, uncertainties and anxieties among its citizens and prevent extreme unhappiness.

The Danish welfare model provides opportunities for its citizens to pursue their happiness from advanced starting positions disregarding economic, social, gendered or cultural backgrounds. Let me give you some examples.

Education is free and even at university level, there is no tuition fee. Meanwhile, every Danish student receives around $900 per month from the state. This means I won't have to worry about how to finance my kid's education. It will be their talents and dreams that shape the path of their careers, not the size of my wallet.

The Danish laws for parental leave are among the most generous in the world with a total of 52 weeks, out of which the parents can receive up to 32 weeks of monetary support from the state. Furthermore, most employees have five weeks of vacation allowing families and friend to spend quality time with each other.

There is free quality health care for everyone and the welfare model works as a risk-reducing mechanism. Danes simply have less to worry about in daily life than most other people and that forms a sound basis for high levels of happiness.

According to several scholars, the welfare model's ability to alleviate risks and insecurities in people's lives is one of the keys to understanding why Denmark does well in the happiness surveys. This is mainly because Denmark does well in terms of preventing extreme unhappiness. In a research paper from 2010 it was shown that the poorest Danes generally are quite happier than the poorest Americans – since the poorest people in Denmark enjoy a wide range of public social benefits that the poorest Americans do not – while the difference between the wealthiest people in each country is very little. That is also why Denmark is one of the countries where people feel most resilient to changes and least anxious in their daily lives.

Thus, Denmark is very equal in terms of happiness. As Richard A. Easterlin, Professor of Economics at the University of Southern California, explains, "There is greater equality in happiness in Denmark and Scandinavia. Mainly because the poorest groups are doing better than in other countries."

Happiness is becoming a core concern for the people who pass the laws shaping the circumstances of our lives.

In recent years, happiness, well-being and quality of life have made a powerful imprint on policy-making. The United Nations passed a resolution inviting countries to start measuring the happiness of their populations. Similarly, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development now includes life satisfaction as a parameter for the development of the member countries, and OECD Secretary General Ángel Gurría declares that "Improving the quality of our lives should be the ultimate target of public policies."

These ambitions reflect the growing awareness among people, politicians and scientists that economic progress is no longer a satisfactory indicator for the progress of a society.

Despite economic growth, I see massive economic anxiety. I see countries such as the United States and South Korea having achieved tremendous growth in the past decades, but failing to convert wealth into well-being for the people.

Denmark is by no means a perfect utopia, and the country faces challenges and issues like any other country. But I do believe Denmark can be a source of inspiration in how countries can increase quality of life.

They have better life expectancy, less pollution, more vacation, less abject poverty, and their poorest are happier than our poorest.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

Study up:

OECD Better Life Index Demnark
Why Danes Happily Pay High Rates of Taxes











They have better life expectancy, less pollution, more vacation, less abject poverty, and their poorest are happier than our poorest.

Well if ours just worked harder maybe they wouldn't be so poor and unhappy!

Or something like that

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers IV: Culling the Herd

We used to just do things that are not acceptable anymore, either.

This doesn't negate a single thing I said lol. If our nation had unprecedented prosperity partly as a result of far higher taxes on the top percentile of earners, how is that a bad thing? Because Dennis Praeger told you it was?

Also I applaud Stauber for having the patience to think Rube is actually willing to learn, use his brain, and actively engage in good faith. I'm long past that point.