2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

If we pay off everyone’s student debt, what incentive does that give for colleges to lower costs? If anything it will make costs go up and sends the message “borrow whatever you want:... the government will pay it off”

Exactly. That’s why I don’t want to pay it all off. And why I would require a cap on public college tuition.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Speaking as someone with a metric [bleep]ton of debt because of Grad School I am not much for full cancellation either. Not right away anyways. It is more important to fix the current system than it is to help me out. Once we have everything normalized and current/future students are getting education at normal prices (I still back the "two years free" plan) THEN we work on the student loan debt.

Because I teach in the Minnesota State System I qualify for various reductions when I have made enough payments. (I think it is 100...which I am about a third of the way through I believe) Before we go wiping out a lot of debt I say we try various programs like that. Have everyone fill out IDRs and pay the sliding scale. (you have to re-up every year and link your taxes so there is no cheating the system) Set up a system of milestones wherein you get reductions when you hit them. Incentivize payments while also lowering the burden. Along with that though we need to lower the interest rate significantly.

Ultimately the idea is that after a certain point you wipe it all out because you have made enough payments. I know that isnt enough for some but it is a start. This along with making life easier on the newest students will turn the tide and after a few years you can add new provisions to make forgiveness easier.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Speaking as someone with a metric [bleep]ton of debt because of Grad School I am not much for full cancellation either. Not right away anyways. It is more important to fix the current system than it is to help me out. Once we have everything normalized and current/future students are getting education at normal prices (I still back the "two years free" plan) THEN we work on the student loan debt.

Because I teach in the Minnesota State System I qualify for various reductions when I have made enough payments. (I think it is 100...which I am about a third of the way through I believe) Before we go wiping out a lot of debt I say we try various programs like that. Have everyone fill out IDRs and pay the sliding scale. (you have to re-up every year and link your taxes so there is no cheating the system) Set up a system of milestones wherein you get reductions when you hit them. Incentivize payments while also lowering the burden. Along with that though we need to lower the interest rate significantly.

Ultimately the idea is that after a certain point you wipe it all out because you have made enough payments. I know that isnt enough for some but it is a start. This along with making life easier on the newest students will turn the tide and after a few years you can add new provisions to make forgiveness easier.

I'm listening.

Sounds like the start of a very good compromise.

 

[trixR4kids]

I’m torn on the cancellation of student debt mostly because I don’t know how it will happen. I am not one of those folks who say “I paid my debt, they should too!” What about someone who has yet to enter college? Will they not have debt? I think people should bear some responsibility, like, 80% will be cancelled, you have to pay 20%. Or, people whose debt will be cancelled must volunteer a certain number of hours a week for the number of years they were in college. For med school and law school grads, they will need to do pro bono work. Or something. I have absolutely no idea how they would work it. To just have Bernie say “I’m going to cancel student debt!” Is kinda nuts.

Or you know higher education could just be a basic right like it is in other countries.

And no, using the same amount of money to pay off peoples’ student loan debt instead of tax cuts for 1% of the population, endless wars, or for firms that ruined our economy, really isn’t that crazy.

 

[unofan]

If we pay off everyone’s student debt, what incentive does that give for colleges to lower costs? If anything it will make costs go up and sends the message “borrow whatever you want:... the government will pay it off”

Just make student loans dischargable in bankruptcy like every other loan out there. That's a decent chunk of the problem.

And funny how the moral hazard doesn't apply to the banks or other corporate entities who get bailed out.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Just make student loans dischargable in bankruptcy like every other loan out there. That's a decent chunk of the problem.

And funny how the moral hazard doesn't apply to the banks or other corporate entities who get bailed out.

For the record, I'm not a fan of bailouts. Why? You ran your business in an inefficient manner, so be it. You're done.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Pretty sure Eric is just Delaney’s USCHO account.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Just make student loans dischargable in bankruptcy like every other loan out there. That's a decent chunk of the problem.

And funny how the moral hazard doesn't apply to the banks or other corporate entities who get bailed out.

That would be the best way to do it...but the amount of bankruptcies that would happen (especially right away) would be shocking. It would probably choke the system up for a while.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

For the record, I'm not a fan of bailouts. Why? You ran your business in an inefficient manner, so be it. You're done.

The 1% always gets one. In fact the number of Bankruptcies that Trump has filed is off the chart.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

For the record, I'm not a fan of bailouts. Why? You ran your business in an inefficient manner, so be it. You're done.

Simple solution: instead of a bailout we nationalize you. The banks proved they are criminal and incompetent but those entities naturally dominated their market. Therefore: Finance cannot be left to the private sector because that's suicide for citizens.

See also: defense, law enforcement, fire departments, consumer protection. Coming soon: hospitalization.

When the children (those motivated by candy) demonstrate they can't handle it we turn the work over to the adults (those who act in the public trust). When it's too important and too many people can be hurt we take it away from the children.

Here's my simple test: when the customer has no choice but to buy the product or perish that should be public. The private sector children can fight to their little hearts' content over luxury goods. Fight over expensive clothes, mansions, microbrews, or the Ivies. Give them enormous wealth to fill the soul-shaped hole inside them. They're sad empty people; have pity on them and indulge them.

Meanwhile, the public sector adults will handle everything that matters, because turning those things over to the private sector is death panels where the rationing is by ability to pay, and that is monstrous no matter how familiar we are with it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

The 1% always gets one. In fact the number of Bankruptcies that Trump has filed is off the chart.

I know. It sucks.

 

[unofan]

That would be the best way to do it...but the amount of bankruptcies that would happen (especially right away) would be shocking. It would probably choke the system up for a while.

Well, that is what happens when you create an artificial backup by not letting them be discharged for 30 years.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

The other thing you have to remember is the unintended consequences if you wipe out all of the debt. That is trillions of dollars disappearing over night from banks AND the Federal Government. You are talking about Mortgage Crisis style problems only on a grander scale because pretty much every bank in the country is in the student loan racket.

Now if it is only the banks and the Government that suffer well I am all for that. Screw them for taking advantage of people to the levels they do. The problem is we all know that isnt the case. Banks will begin to start freezing up credit, some will close their doors and the Government will be forced to bail them out to avoid a depression. Ultimately the banks get made whole on our tax dollars and our money gets devalued more making the money we saved not worth as much. The Middle Class get screwed even as they get helped.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Pretty sure Eric is just Delaney’s USCHO account.

He's actually Seth Moulton.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Well, that is what happens when you create an artificial backup by not letting them be discharged for 30 years.

Oh I agree completely. I am just saying I would not want to be working bankruptcy court in any way except defending the broke

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Well, it makes it pretty attractive to just come out of school and declare bankruptcy. Obviously that would stick with you for quite a while. But seven years of **** credit and not being able to buy a house vs. never being able to buy a house.

I’m all for lowering the time requirements for discharging it in a bankruptcy. I just don’t know enough to say that making it immediately dischargeable is a good idea.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Well, it makes it pretty attractive to just come out of school and declare bankruptcy. Obviously that would stick with you for quite a while. But seven years of **** credit and not being able to buy a house vs. never being able to buy a house.

I’m all for lowering the time requirements for discharging it in a bankruptcy. I just don’t know enough to say that making it immediately dischargeable is a good idea.

I'd be fine with forgiving half of beginning total if you still have loans. Get the Freshmen and Sophmore years on the public and the junior senior years are on you. If you've paid half already lucky you you're done.

Done.

 

[trixR4kids]

He's actually Seth Moulton.

Lol, ah yes! Reminds me of that South Park where Fred Savage keeps lobbying himself for movie roles/awards

Also Handy I’m pretty sure the plan is for the govt. to buy up all the debt not for it to just vanish from the banks’ accounts. Or at least that was what was proposed in Stephanie Kelton’s research paper on the subject (his economic adviser).

 

[ericredaxe]

He's actually Seth Moulton.

I served four combat tours in Iraq, a war I spoke out against. I'm progressive, I'm practical, and I can beat Donald Trump.

It's time for a new generation of leadership.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Lol, ah yes! Reminds me of that South Park where Fred Savage keeps lobbying himself for movie roles/awards

Also Handy I’m pretty sure the plan is for the govt. to buy up all the debt not for it to just vanish from the banks’ accounts. Or at least that was what was proposed in Stephanie Kelton’s research paper on the subject (his economic adviser).

Right but the Government buying the debt doesnt solve the problem. That was the original intention of TARP too (cash for trash) and it wasnt going to prevent the outcome. All it does is kick the can down the road a bit and cause other issues.

Not to mention the Government cant afford to take on that kind of debt and not have it go completely sideways. That is TRILLIONS added with no way to cover the cost. There is still going to be massive economic repercussions if they did that.

To even discuss such a plan you would need to first cut quite a bit from the budget, sunset a lot of the tax cuts and start building a surplus. For it not to backfire you would need to make it so any downswing for the people is minor. You play it wrong and the electoral backlash could be massive. If there is an economic downturn (which there would be if you dont take it slow) it could get REALLY ugly.

So the question then becomes...is it worth it in the long run? I dont know how I feel I go back and forth. (I like the idea but hate the possible consequences) If we have the money to do it I am all for it. But I dont see any President (even Bernie) making the move and I dont see Congress doing it either. The military cuts alone would be political suicide for some and the tax hikes would not be popular with many. It could get painful for a while...

But if you can guarantee it doesnt get overturned in the next cycle I could make the argument it is worth the backlash because in a decade a lot of problems get solved.