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2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Pointing out legitimate criticisms of candidates who support bad things is the work of the Russians! If they lose it's not their fault that they supported and enacted awful policies, it's the Russians and Bernie Bros fault!
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Kepler said:
She's not "awful" FFS. There's one awful Dem candidate, Gabbard. Williamson isn't even awful she's just stupid. Everybody else in the field is fine. Delaney is a conservative billionaire SOB but you know something? If he wins the nomination he's Jesus Christ from then on because if we don't win everybody f-cking dies.

We need to get it through our skulls that "yay my guy" doesn't have to mean "your guy is teh debil." Especially because that opponent may well be our f-cking nominee in which case you're gonna look pretty stupid supporting them.
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At least one of you gets it
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

ericredaxe said:
Not surprising...His act is really growing tired. He honestly comes off as a stereotypical senile old crazy man.... what was the grandpas name in the simpsons?
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Abe.

Bernie isn't any more of a crazy old man than he was in 2016. His ideas have helped the Democratic party tremendously. Look at how insane Delaney looked in the debate -- he basically was repeating the Clintonista agenda which was Democratic scripture for 20 years. We've come a long way already and Bernie was a huge factor in that. We are starting to burn the Wall Street ticks off our body.

Warren is the better bet going forward, for now, until the next generation produces an AOC with strong finance chops and a vision for pushing us past the dead husk of predatory capitalism. Warren is far more connected to the average American family than Bernie. She's worried about the kitchen table and the dinner table, Bernie is worried about the tax table. He's absolutely right, but he speaks and thinks in ways which you need a PhD in economics and 20 tier one university credit hours in history to understand. Warren can reach Joe and Jill Average Slowpoke Brain on domestic issues like debt. Bernie reaches people who actually understand the economy... but don't live in it.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

The worst and best part of Bernie Bros is that they deny, or don't know they are Bernie Bros.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Or, you know, it was just something Clinton made up for propaganda purposes to help her win a primary.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
The worst and best part of Bernie Bros is that they deny, or don't know they are Bernie Bros.
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As a non-Bernie Bro (I campaigned and voted for Hillary) but a strong Bernie preferer in 2016 I think you are characterizing the argument. There are definitely people who call themselves "Bernie Bros" and say "my way or the highway" on social media. What we doubt is whether they are actual Sanders supporters, or just (1) Russian agitprop via trolls or bots or whatever, (2) opponents for the nomination trying to smear Bernie with Dems, or (3) bomb-throwers attracted to Bernie who went back to bomb-throwing.

Bernie's supporters (c.f. moi) aren't responsible for any of those groups. I'm sure you can find 10% of any group who are awful, but please believe me when I tell you in my experience 90% of the Bernie supporters I have met have the right idea and the right priorities. We'll vote for any Dem over any GOP. We want to nationalize the banks but we're not crazy.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

trixR4kids said:
Or, you know, it was just something Clinton made up for propaganda purposes to help her win a primary.
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That's not fair either. There is a real something that self-IDs as Bernie Bros and they aren't team players. Now Hillary took pains to paint Bernie as only being favored by them and some people here (cough) either fell for that of found it a useful cynical card to play, but the question still remains: given that we know the Russians feared Hillary, how much of that was their strategy?
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Kepler said:
OK. Don Jr as Lesser Dump I fully understand.

If the Dumps are concern trolling Harris about her blackness that's truly hilarious. They really are rock stupid just like their voters.

IINM trix has never said anything like "Biden is Dump." I don't know what the beef is there but trix is a good poster. Farther left than you? Sure. But so is 80% of this board.
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Then you dont know how left I am. Maybe I should tell Bernie to stop emailing me ;) (he has sent me a lot lately)
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Kepler said:
I don't know but we could actually quantify it with that political test thread.
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The last time I took a political test was 2016 and, not surprisingly, I was closest to Bernie. I could take another one I guess but I dont feel the need to justify my bonafides to the "Purity Monsters". Considering I give money to the ACLU, the NRDC and the Sierra Club (and of course now get every mailer and email from every Progressive Group that has ever existed) I definitely take umbrage to the idea that I am some "centrist" like gets bandied about by some around here.

Things I support:

Higher taxes to pay down debt
Free or heavily subsidized education
Freedom of Choice
Funding the EPA
Stopping drilling/fracking
Funding alternative energy
gas tax raises to fund infrastructure
Free Health Care
Fair Immigration Laws
Stricter gun laws
de-funding the military
LGBTQ rights en total
Cutting corporate welfare

All very "centrist" beliefs. The problem the "Purity Monsters" have is I am willing to admit that you cant just wave a wand and have all of these things. Some of them are going to take many steps and time to make work. That doesnt work in the minds of the pure. If you arent willing to raise taxes to Sweden levels on Day 1, cut the military and fund everything else you might as well just register a Republican and call it a day because you nothing but a "centrist" corporate sellout. ;)
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Kepler said:
It was 9 years ago. The law was supported by Gavin Newsome who is an uber-liberal.

Obviously in retrospect it's awful because we know ICE and Border Patrol are the Gestapo. But be careful with 20/20 hindsight -- it's liable to kill off whoever you support, too.

Harris isn't ideal; she's more center than center-left. But she's not a monster and trying to make her one just reflects on the accusers.
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Kepler,

Let me preface this by saying that I mean this 100%. No irony, sarcasm or trolling. Between now and the election I want you to pay attention to how often you see Ultra Left Wingers attack the very same people who Trump attacks. It is usually a couple days later but it is almost always in lock step. It isnt a coincidence.

Kamala Harris is now unpure. Makes sense she is rising in the polls while their Chosen One is stagnate. (I blame Donna Brazille) So Joe Biden isnt good enough, Elizabeth Warren isnt good enough, Kamala Harris isnt good enough...love those Purity Tests!
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Centrists have the exact same purity tests, they just pretend that they’re being pragmatic rather than wanting to change the status quo.

Yes the “ultra left” attacks Kamala/Biden for being terrible candidates. They receive a ton of money from Wall st. to maintain the status quo, aren’t serious about changing healthcare in any meaningful way, and have various strikes on their record which have been pointed out here and elsewhere that lead me to think they’d be awful presidents. This is also a primary where the entire point is to draw lines in the sand in terms of what separates your candidate from the others. Like those specific issues they’re bad on
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

trixR4kids said:
Or, you know, it was just something Clinton made up for propaganda purposes to help her win a primary.
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Sorry she didnt need to make anything up to win a primary. Bernie made sure she had no trouble doing that on his own. ;)

I mean I know those were rigged and all but still!

BTW I think it is hilarious that Kepler 3 pages ago was defending you from me and my apparent "dislike of anyone left of me" (man I love how wrong people are about my beliefs sometimes :D ) and not 2 pages later you get in a ****ing match with him because the Russian Bots spewed their nonsense about Kamala Harris and he saw through it. I mean I know you enjoy screaming into the wind but good lord man read the room a bit :D
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

All of those stories about Kamala are backed by mainstream media pieces. “Russian bots” has just become a lazy way of discounting criticism of why your candidate is awful.

And nobody is claiming or had made the claim that anything was rigged in 2016, your lazy non-sequitors aren’t furthering your bad point.
 
Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

trixR4kids said:
Centrists have the exact same purity tests, they just pretend that they’re being pragmatic rather than wanting to change the status quo.

Yes the “ultra left” attacks Kamala/Biden for being terrible candidates. They receive a ton of money from Wall st. to maintain the status quo, aren’t serious about changing healthcare in any meaningful way, and have various strikes on their record which have been pointed out here and elsewhere that lead me to think they’d be awful presidents. This is also a primary where the entire point is to draw lines in the sand in terms of what separates your candidate from the others. Like those specific issues they’re bad on
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Well then you draw your line in the sand trix...certainly working well for you and Bernie so far huh. Right right...conspiracy...Hillary...Donna Brazille...corpratists...etc.

The idea is to actually win ya know...kind of hard to do that when you exclude everyone from your little club. People dont tend to support the ones who tell them they are morons and everyone/everything they support are wrong and evil.

So is anyone besides Bernie pure? Let's be honest his chances arent great so you are going to need to compromise most likely...I want to know who the Bots...err...you guys feel is an acceptable alternative to Bernie. We know Biden is out, Booker is a no go, Warren no...so who? Dead serious who ya got if Bernie continues to not make a move up the polls?
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

Until you stop doing this whole conspiracy angle that nobody here has ever claimed, there’s no reason to even engage with you. It’d be like if I replied to every one of your posts and claim you support child concentration camps and then went on to make some inane point about “purity tests”.
 
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Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers III: The Wrath of Warren

trixR4kids said:
Until you stop doing this whole conspiracy angle that nobody here has ever claimed, there’s no reason to even engage with you. It’d be like if I replied to every one of your posts and claim you support child concentration camps and then went on to make some inane point about “purity tests”.
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Fine I wont make cracks about the conspiracy anymore. (unless you or Kep hint at it in the future or talk about how it was unfair in 2016) So no excuses now answer the question. Assuming Bernie doesnt win the nomination who meets your standards? It is easy to knock down candidates...no one is perfect. The hard part is parsing out who is the best amongst the unclean. It is always left out of the conversation. It makes it appear that your segment of the party only wants who they want and everyone else isnt worth their time. (whether true or not)

So who have ya got and why?

BTW in a perfect world for me:

Bernie
Harris
Warren
Mayor Pete
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Booker
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Everyone else

If Inslee had a full platform I would put him in there somewhere but he doesnt so I cant. Since we live in the real world though I dont discount anyone...even the crazies.
 
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