2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

[Swansong]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Is Beto electable though? He lost what should have been an insanely winnable election to a spectacularly unpopular Ted Cruz in a rather sweeping anti-incumbant election. I know, I know, Texas. But it's Cruz. Even his friends think he's a dick, and Republicans finally saw him for what he truly is during the 2016 RNC convention.

The more I read about attacks on him from the left, however, the more hopeful I am for him. I guess we'll learn a lot over the next two years. I hope the Democratic primary is brutal and bloody and gives us someone who is electable, not insane and an actual adult. Maybe I'm too much the cynic but right now I absolutely do not see anyone who meets those requirements.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Is Beto electable though? He lost what should have been an insanely winnable election to a spectacularly unpopular Ted Cruz in a rather sweeping anti-incumbant election. I know, I know, Texas. But it's Cruz. Even his friends think he's a dick, and Republicans finally saw him for what he truly is during the 2016 RNC convention.

The more I read about attacks on him from the left, however, the more hopeful I am for him. I guess we'll learn a lot over the next two years. I hope the Democratic primary is brutal and bloody and gives us someone who is electable, not insane and an actual adult. Maybe I'm too much the cynic but right now I absolutely do not see anyone who meets those requirements.

The big thing is not whether Beto is electable...but whether he's the best chance we've got. Not sure about that...but I have little doubt he's in the top three. And depending on how outrageous Trump's actions and what happens to the economy, Beto should either win by a solid margin or come up frustratingly short based on factors outside of his or anyone's control.

 

[Swansong]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

You really need to throw out "should win" if Trump is in any way involved. How many of his idiot comments during the campaign "should" have rendered him unelectable? Hilary should have destroyed him, but here we are.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

You really need to throw out "should win" if Trump is in any way involved. How many of his idiot comments during the campaign "should" have rendered him unelectable? Hilary should have destroyed him, but here we are.

Yeah.

The electoral college caused 50,000 voters in a few states to make every single voter in the Northeastern US and the Pacific coast irrelevant.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Is Beto electable though? He lost what should have been an insanely winnable election to a spectacularly unpopular Ted Cruz in a rather sweeping anti-incumbant election. I know, I know, Texas. But it's Cruz. Even his friends think he's a dick, and Republicans finally saw him for what he truly is during the 2016 RNC convention.

He got the same swing every generic democrat got in this blue wave, it's not like he greatly exceeded expectations from a mathematical standpoint. So I tend to agree.

As for "attacks" from the left, I don't think examining someone's voting record or where they get their money is an attack.

 

[Swansong]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Yeah.

The electoral college caused 50,000 voters in a few states to make every single voter in the Northeastern US and the Pacific coast irrelevant.

I read this sentiment all over, and while it's obviously not a false statement, I fear that you're underselling support for Trump as the incumbent.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I read this sentiment all over, and while it's obviously not a false statement, I fear that you're underselling support for Trump as the incumbent.

Not at all. There's no reason it couldn't happen again.

The lesson is that we can't can't pick a candidate that is under investigation - or one that is a super lefty. Not to pick on Bernie, but Vermont Bernie risks losing the same moderates Hillary lost in critical geographies.

In our state of Minnesota, we just had a moderate Democrat from southern farmlands. Super liberal Minneapolis chose him over a very liberal urban democrat in the primaries. The city knew that he would give the Ds the best chance to win. Sure enough...Walz carried enough of the farm country, won over southern Minnesota towns and crushed the GOP in the Twin cities. Its the recipe that wins...and would be more important in any presidential election because of the electoral college.

 

[joecct]

Is Beto electable though? He lost what should have been an insanely winnable election to a spectacularly unpopular Ted Cruz in a rather sweeping anti-incumbant election. I know, I know, Texas. But it's Cruz. Even his friends think he's a dick, and Republicans finally saw him for what he truly is during the 2016 RNC convention.

The more I read about attacks on him from the left, however, the more hopeful I am for him. I guess we'll learn a lot over the next two years. I hope the Democratic primary is brutal and bloody and gives us someone who is electable, not insane and an actual adult. Maybe I'm too much the cynic but right now I absolutely do not see anyone who meets those requirements.

Dial the Old Folks Home and ask for Joe Biden. Then balance the ticket with somebody in their late 40s.

 

[Swansong]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Not at all. There's no reason it couldn't happen again.

The lesson is that we can't can't pick a candidate that is under investigation - or one that is a super lefty. Not to pick on Bernie, but Vermont Bernie risks losing the same moderates Hillary lost in critical geographies.

In our state of Minnesota, we just had a moderate Democrat from southern farmlands. Super liberal Minneapolis chose him over a very liberal urban democrat in the primaries. The city knew that he would give the Ds the best chance to win. Sure enough...Walz carried enough of the farm country, won over southern Minnesota towns and crushed the GOP in the Twin cities. Its the recipe that wins...and would be more important in any presidential election because of the electoral college.

I live in Massachusetts so my vote truly doesn't matter, however a moderate D might get me to vote for that ticket for the first time in ages (I've been going third party for a long time now). The question is whether they'd get through a primary. It's one thing in a single state for a moderate to get through, it's another to get through in a series of primaries over several months when you have a not-small faction insistent upon a circular firing squad.

Again, maybe I'm just too much the cynic.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Yeah.

The electoral college caused 50,000 voters in a few states to make every single voter in the Northeastern US and the Pacific coast irrelevant.

That phenomena has been going on in this country for over 200 years. Let's not act like something terrible has just happened. We could probably find a dozen presidential elections where the exact same thing occurred. As I recall, Woodrow Wilson won because he had a few thousand more votes in California than his opponent. Jimmy Carter's election was won by a few thousand votes in the right states. Everyone remembers Florida in 2000, but if about 10,000 citizens of Nevada had voted for Gore instead of Bush, we'd never had heard of a hanging chad.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Not at all. There's no reason it couldn't happen again.

The lesson is that we can't can't pick a candidate that is under investigation - or one that is a super lefty. Not to pick on Bernie, but Vermont Bernie risks losing the same moderates Hillary lost in critical geographies.

There's literally no evidence to support this sentiment other than your own wishful thinking.

That phenomena has been going on in this country for over 200 years. Let's not act like something terrible has just happened. We could probably find a dozen presidential elections where the exact same thing occurred. As I recall, Woodrow Wilson won because he had a few thousand more votes in California than his opponent. Jimmy Carter's election was won by a few thousand votes in the right states. Everyone remembers Florida in 2000, but if about 10,000 citizens of Nevada had voted for Gore instead of Bush, we'd never had heard of a hanging chad.

Ok?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

That phenomena has been going on in this country for over 200 years. Let's not act like something terrible has just happened. We could probably find a dozen presidential elections where the exact same thing occurred. As I recall, Woodrow Wilson won because he had a few thousand more votes in California than his opponent. Jimmy Carter's election was won by a few thousand votes in the right states. Everyone remembers Florida in 2000, but if about 10,000 citizens of Nevada had voted for Gore instead of Bush, we'd never had heard of a hanging chad.

Slavery existed for thousands of years and racism still does in some circles. That doesn't make them right.

The reason to bring the electoral college up...is to educate people that its a real burden on this country's electoral process and it needs to be overcome. It wasn't in 2000 and 2018...and that single fact caused the majority to lose to the massive detriment of this country.

There's literally no evidence to support this sentiment other than your own wishful thinking.
Ok?

I just gave you the reason. 50,000 voters changed parties in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...and that simple fact made every single vote in CA, NY, and every other liberal state irrelevant.

We must win back the voters switching parties in those swing states or another 20 million votes by the left in California won't matter. Bernie can't get them back.

I live in Massachusetts so my vote truly doesn't matter, however a moderate D might get me to vote for that ticket for the first time in ages (I've been going third party for a long time now). The question is whether they'd get through a primary. It's one thing in a single state for a moderate to get through, it's another to get through in a series of primaries over several months when you have a not-small faction insistent upon a circular firing squad.

Again, maybe I'm just too much the cynic.

All that is true and understandable. You can support one approach in local elections, but a different one for national elections - the rules and outcomes are very different. The way you can help from Mass is...to not vote in the D primary for the candidate that matches your desires...but rather to help the country nominate a Dem presidential candidate that can win in critical geographies. While it may not be your Democrat, its at least a Democrat that greatly increases the chance of winning. Unfortunately, that's the game that matters.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I just gave you the reason. 50,000 voters changed parties in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...and that simple fact made every single vote in CA, NY, and every other liberal state irrelevant.

We must win back the voters switching parties in those swing states or another 20 million votes by the left in California won't matter. Bernie can't get them back.
.

They didn't change parties, less people voted on the D side this time around due to a variety of factors. There were some voters who switched but not nearly as many as the number that had their vote suppressed or just didn't vote.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

They didn't change parties, less people voted on the D side this time around due to a variety of factors. There were some voters who switched but not nearly as many as the number that had their vote suppressed or just didn't vote.

Sorry. But I'm going to have to bring out the facts. 2016 had the highest turnout of any presidential election - 130m vs. 129m in 2012 and 122m in 2008. So its not that people didn't just show up.

The reason that Dems lost is because of the electoral votes Clinton lost vs. Obama. In MI, WI and PA (and not taking states like IA), Trump defections caused those states to switch sides. When that happened...the rest of the votes didn't matter which made liberals in CA and NY irrelevant. The following are county by county switches from D to R and R to D.

https://www.cnbc.com/heres-a-map-of-the-us-counties-that-flipped-to-trump-from-democrats/

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Sorry. But I'm going to have to bring out the facts. 2016 had the highest turnout of any presidential election - 130m vs. 129m in 2012 and 122m in 2008. So its not that people didn't just show up.

Yeah because our population is growing, that's not exactly shocking.

The reason that Dems lost is because of the electoral votes Clinton lost vs. Obama. In MI, WI and PA (and not taking states like IA), Trump defections caused those states to switch sides. When that happened...the rest of the votes didn't matter which made liberals in CA and NY irrelevant. The following are county by county switches from D to R and R to D.

Again, that isn't explained by individual voters switching sides necessarily. And what happened in 2016 with a bad dem candidate doesn't address the original point you made that Bernie or more left leaning dems can't win rural/southern areas when there's plenty of evidence to counter that point.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

This progressive vs moderate is stupid and mostly fanned by brainless media types who need a "Dems in Disarray" meme to write in order to counter the dumpster fire that is the Republican party right now. Don't give it to them.

Dems are united on several core ideas. Expanding govt healthcare. Higher taxes on the wealthy. Expanded voter rights. Environmental protection. No matter who runs for Prez they will all be on board with this. Contrast that with the Republicans, who have voted for 1) reducing govt healthcare, 2) lower taxes on the wealthy, 3) restricting voter rights, and 4) weakening environmental regulations.

The trick here is to realize where we're all in agreement, and then keep the disagreements on semantics within the family. What's the right tax rate on the rich? Don't know, but lets get elected first and sort that out most likely via compromise. How much do we expand healthcare? Lets see where the votes are. Environment and voter rights are slam dunks. Keep your eyes on the prize, people. Chump turned out his merry band of Nazi's in full force the the mid-terms, and he still lost 40 House seats and 7 governors. There aren't enough Putin lovers out there to re-elect Trump.....IF Dems turn out regardless of whether or not they agree on 100% of the nominee's positions. Bernie Sanders or Joe Manchin as nominee will have my enthusiastic support.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Slavery existed for thousands of years and racism still does in some circles. That doesn't make them right.

Just equated slavery, racism and the electoral college voting system. Nice work.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Just equated slavery, racism and the electoral college voting system. Nice work.

Well historically they have a lot to do with each other but I don't think he was equating the two, that's you and Sica's game

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

This progressive vs moderate is stupid and mostly fanned by brainless media types who need a "Dems in Disarray" meme to write in order to counter the dumpster fire that is the Republican party right now. Don't give it to them.

Dems are united on several core ideas. Expanding govt healthcare. Higher taxes on the wealthy. Expanded voter rights. Environmental protection. No matter who runs for Prez they will all be on board with this. Contrast that with the Republicans, who have voted for 1) reducing govt healthcare, 2) lower taxes on the wealthy, 3) restricting voter rights, and 4) weakening environmental regulations.

The trick here is to realize where we're all in agreement, and then keep the disagreements on semantics within the family. What's the right tax rate on the rich? Don't know, but lets get elected first and sort that out most likely via compromise. How much do we expand healthcare? Lets see where the votes are. Environment and voter rights are slam dunks. Keep your eyes on the prize, people. Chump turned out his merry band of Nazi's in full force the the mid-terms, and he still lost 40 House seats and 7 governors. There aren't enough Putin lovers out there to re-elect Trump.....IF Dems turn out regardless of whether or not they agree on 100% of the nominee's positions. Bernie Sanders or Joe Manchin as nominee will have my enthusiastic support.

This.

And the Electoral College is not the problem...people who say that crap need to take a friggin History class. The EC didnt make the votes not count the jerkoffs who didnt vote made the votes not count. If the Libs had voted for Hillary like they did Obama this isnt a problem. They stayed home, they are to blame.

It isnt like things wont be way worse without the EC. More states woudnt matter at all if you got rid of it. Hell most of the Midwest would be a joke cause winning the Coasts is all you would need.

As for Beto...name a better candidate and then examine their record. The Far Left loves to say "we dont like this person, there has to be someone better" but yet I never hear a name. And no Bernie doesnt count because he too is NOT a better candidate nor is he a Democrat.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

"Name a better candidate but you can't say the guy who is a better candidate because I don't think he's a better candidate and also he technically didn't run as a dem for state elections!"