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2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

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Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Kepler said:
For god's sake, man; I'm the Marxist*! I understand the normalization of neoliberal policy under bourgeois compromised "left" parties is the road to plutocratic hegemony.

But I also know actual fascism, and I can tell a hawk from a handsaw.

Obviously I want Liz in the White House and the editorial board of Jacobin as her cabinet, at a bare minimum. But I'll settle for not having a lunatic monster and his jackboot jackwagon party there.

* via Marcuse, not Lenin. Don't get the vapors, boys.
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I think we're in agreement on this but if people are gonna keep spouting this tripe about Dumpy voters deserving everything that happens to them (or those who voted third party or sat out etc.), then we can also be honest about the fact that those who keep voting for terrible candidates solely based on some absurd notion of "electability", are just as much a part of the problem.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

trixR4kids said:
I think we're in agreement on this but if people are gonna keep spouting this tripe about Dumpy voters deserving everything that happens to them (or those who voted third party or sat out etc.), then we can also be honest about the fact that those who keep voting for terrible candidates solely based on some absurd notion of "electability", then those idiots are just as much a part of the problem.
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I don't make that jump with you. I think if you voted for Dump you deserve what you get. At some point there has to be accountability.

With Dubya I'll give people who voted for him in 2000 a break. They were dumb but he hadn't been exposed yet. By 2004, though, those who voted Dubya deserved what they got.

With Dump there was never any question of what It was or what It was going to do. Anybody who voted for It is fully complicit. The guy has been slowly tweeting his Mein Kampf to us for the last decade. We all knew.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

joecct said:
Guess I can't harp on our differences, eh?
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Ironically his birth name was "Adolph." Also weirdly he changed it to Arthur in 1911 -- nothing to do with You Know Who.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

trixR4kids said:
I think we're in agreement on this but if people are gonna keep spouting this tripe about Dumpy voters deserving everything that happens to them (or those who voted third party or sat out etc.), then we can also be honest about the fact that those who keep voting for terrible candidates solely based on some absurd notion of "electability", are just as much a part of the problem.
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If given the choice between Paul Ryan and Donald Trump, I'd enthusiastically take Paul Ryan. He'd **** us economically, but at least he wouldn't be putting us in weekly constitutional crises.

That's the fundamental scenario you seem to not be getting. ANYTHING is better than Trump.

Would I prefer a Klobuchar or Warren? Yes, 100% yes.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

dxmnkd316 said:
If given the choice between Paul Ryan and Donald Trump, I'd enthusiastically take Paul Ryan. He'd **** us economically, but at least he wouldn't be putting us in weekly constitutional crises.

That's the fundamental scenario you seem to not be getting. ANYTHING is better than Trump.

Would I prefer a Klobuchar or Warren? Yes, 100% yes.
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Exactly so.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

dxmnkd316 said:
That's the fundamental scenario you seem to not be getting. ANYTHING is better than Trump.
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No I fully understand that and have even said I'd vote for the lesser of evils. But realistically that's a stop gap measure from fascism and not a very effective or long term one.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

trixR4kids said:
No I fully understand that and have even said I'd vote for the lesser of evils. But realistically that's a stop gap measure from fascism and not a very effective or long term one.
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Sadly, most Americans do not make this calculation. Trump is beloved by his 35%. If the Dems pick someone with no love attached again they may find themselves in a heap of trouble.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

trixR4kids said:
No I fully understand that and have even said I'd vote for the lesser of evils. But realistically that's a stop gap measure from fascism and not a very effective or long term one.
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When you sever your femoral artery, you don't worry about what you're going to have for dinner tomorrow.
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

ScoobyDoo said:
Sadly, most Americans do not make this calculation. Trump is beloved by his 35%. If the Dems pick someone with no love attached again they may find themselves in a heap of trouble.
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They don't make that calculation because its a stupid one. Again, for the umpteenth time. If you don't fully comprehend the danger of 4 more years of the cult in charge, and will only vote Dem if the candidate makes your loins tingle, you get what you deserve. Fascism will come a lot sooner if Trump is re-elected then it will if someone like Biden wins. :rolleyes:
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Rover said:
and will only vote Dem if the candidate makes your loins tingle
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That's not what he's saying. This is your favorite soapbox, I know, but it's not what he's saying.

And the fact still stands, Rover, that while you and I and trix and Scoob are going to vote blue no matter who the vast majority of voters are casual consumers, and if you trundle sh-t out to them and it doesn't sell then that isn't the consumers' fault, it's the product.

The empirical evidence is it doesn't matter how bad things get -- if the Dems serve up a sh-t sandwich like last time we're gonna lose again. That isn't liberals, Rove. Liberals eat sleep and die politics. It's casual voters who don't know what their precinct is and don't know where their polling place is unless we remind them every 15 seconds.

The Left has never been our problem.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
When you sever your femoral artery, you don't worry about what you're going to have for dinner tomorrow.
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If you’re a republikkan, you worry about making sure that no poor children are getting a free lunch at school tomorrow
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Kepler said:
That's not what he's saying. This is your favorite soapbox, I know, but it's not what he's saying.

And the fact still stands, Rover, that while you and I and trix and Scoob are going to vote blue no matter who the vast majority of voters are casual consumers, and if you trundle sh-t out to them and it doesn't sell then that isn't the consumers' fault, it's the product.

The empirical evidence is it doesn't matter how bad things get -- if the Dems serve up a sh-t sandwich like last time we're gonna lose again. That isn't liberals, Rove. Liberals eat sleep and die politics. It's casual voters who don't know what their precinct is and don't know where their polling place is unless we remind them every 15 seconds.

The Left has never been our problem.
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Exactly. The people in this thread who actually care enough to follow politics closely know that "severing your femoral artery" is worse than walking towards oncoming traffic on I-35. But in a lot of states where voting isn't easy and designed to be a huge burden, the average person isn't going to waste their time and energy to vote for the oncoming traffic option. And even if oncoming traffic wins that's still highly problematic.
 
joecct said:
On a scale of 1 (far right loonie) to 100 (left wing progressive loonie) rate the candidates.

Michael Bennet
Joe Biden
Bill de Blasio
Cory Booker
Steve Bullock
Pete Buttigieg
Julián Castro
John Delaney
Tulsi Gabbard
Kirsten Gillibrand
Mike Gravel
Kamala Harris
John Hickenlooper
Jay Inslee
Amy Klobuchar
Wayne Messam
Seth Moulton
Beto O'Rourke
Tim Ryan
Bernie Sanders
Eric Swalwell
Elizabeth Warren
Marianne Williamson
Andrew Yang
Click to expand...

https://youtu.be/AzRAmoKtrZg (start at 1:35).
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Kepler said:
That's not what he's saying. This is your favorite soapbox, I know, but it's not what he's saying.

And the fact still stands, Rover, that while you and I and trix and Scoob are going to vote blue no matter who the vast majority of voters are casual consumers, and if you trundle sh-t out to them and it doesn't sell then that isn't the consumers' fault, it's the product.

The empirical evidence is it doesn't matter how bad things get -- if the Dems serve up a sh-t sandwich like last time we're gonna lose again. That isn't liberals, Rove. Liberals eat sleep and die politics. It's casual voters who don't know what their precinct is and don't know where their polling place is unless we remind them every 15 seconds.

The Left has never been our problem.
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THEN LET THEM GET FUKED!!!! I'm not sure how this hasn't been crystal clear from my postings from the past couple of eons, but I'll say it again. Chump and his cult isn't affecting me any. If you (collectively, not you personally) can't see what the GOP is made out of, then its YOUR problem when they take away your healthcare and give it to billionaires in the form of tax cuts. If fundies start taking away your freedoms, oh well. They aren't running my state, so they aren't my problem either.

In short, I have zero desire to help people who refuse to help themselves. Helping themselves is defined as bothering enough to figure out where to vote and who to vote for based on the vast divide between where the two parties stand. You and trix act too much like the tired old canard is true about there's not a dimes worth of difference between the two parties, trotted out by con-men like George Wallace and Ralph Nader. I can't speak to their stances 50 years ago but in the here and now if you can't see the difference you're a fuking idiot. The stakes are too high for "It's casual voters who don't know what their precinct is and don't know where their polling place is unless we remind them every 15 seconds". They can either smarten up or get screwed. Now do you get my angle here?
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Rover: People vote for fascism, they deserve what they get
Trix: if people vote for delayed fascism do they deserve what they get?
Rover: wHy WoULd yOu vOtE fOr fAsCiSm now!?!?
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

trixR4kids said:
Rover: People vote for fascism, they deserve what they get
Trix: if people vote for delayed fascism do they deserve what they get?
Rover: wHy WoULd yOu vOtE fOr fAsCiSm now!?!?
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Gotta be an idiot if you think voting for Biden leads to delayed fascism, but can't say I'm surprised at your crackpot theory.

You're starting to make Kepler look sane. :D
 
Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Yeah it's not like we can't look at other countries like France or the countless historical examples of similar candidates leading to that outcome :rolleyes:
 
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