2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

“It’s the economy stupid” is the best advice you can give to any candidate. Carville’s quip should be renamed Carville’s Law.

Run on getting the blue collar worker an improved life. They are the real silent majority. They don’t much care for politics and don’t even tune in until after the conventions. That vast majority of people don’t care about detailed policy like Warren or Yang have. They don’t care about social politics. They care about having a goddam chicken in every pot and a <strike>cap in every ass</strike> car in every garage. But more specifically their pot and their garage.

Quoted for truth. The nominee should hire one of those Roman guys who whispers this in her ear all day long.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Sic, yeah. mookie is just tweaking everybody's nose. I've probably read 500 political posts from mookie and I haven't the slightest idea where he really stands on anything, except that he has some sort of 2000-year view where this too shall pass, which connotes if not conservatism then at least the privilege to wait things out in the comfort of the status quo. People under threat are not non-commital.

Pretty sure he also thinks women are toys. Alabama is probably paradise for him

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Exactly. Russia is a losing proposition. Anyone who runs on that or impeachment is going to lose. I’d be willing to bet there would be an inverse exponential relationship between the times a candidate mentions collusion, Russia, or Mueller and the performance in the election.

“It’s the economy stupid” is the best advice you can give to any candidate. Carville’s quip should be renamed Carville’s Law.

Run on getting the blue collar worker an improved life. They are the real silent majority. They don’t much care for politics and don’t even tune in until after the conventions. That vast majority of people don’t care about detailed policy like Warren or Yang have. They don’t care about social politics. They care about having a goddam chicken in every pot and a <strike>cap in every ass</strike> car in every garage. But more specifically their pot and their garage.

Someone on POTUS yesterday said a GOP strategist told hom the winning message for the Democratic nominee is “I swear to god you won’t hear about me more than once a week” or something to that effect.

Again disagree here. 20 years ago people voted on their economic interests. Sadly the country has changed even from then. Blue collar workers tend to feel nothing is going to save them, so they might as well go out and vote for somebody who will screw the people they don't like. Generally that means non-whites. Could mean liberals, elites, blah blah blah blah. Its always something. GOP voters, and that includes those sanctified working class types that we're all supposed to worship, are driven by hate and resentment.

People are making the classic mistake that you can appeal to Republicans logically around policy. You may very well have a policy for improving the lives of the working class. That's great, but if you don't couple it with "and we're gonna kick all those illegals out of the country right now!!!!" they will NOT vote for you. Its a cult. For every .01% of the people who leave the cult the rest you aren't going to be able to reach.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

People are making the classic mistake that you can appeal to Republicans logically around policy. You may very well have a policy for improving the lives of the working class. That's great, but if you don't couple it with "and we're gonna kick all those illegals out of the country right now!!!!" they will NOT vote for you. Its a cult. For every .01% of the people who leave the cult the rest you aren't going to be able to reach.

Well stated. I agree.

 

[bronconick]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Run on getting the blue collar worker an improved life.

They don't want an improved life. They want their steel mill, their coal mine, and their factory jobs in spite of the fact that those are forever gone. Since no one can give them back, they'll settle for voting to watch the world burn. The key is in the suburbs, not the blue collar.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Blue collar workers tend to feel nothing is going to save them, so they might as well go out and vote for somebody who will screw the people they don't like.

A lot of these same people voted for Obama until he gave a bailout to the banks committing criminal acts and stood by while they illegally foreclosed homes and did nothing to help the blue collar worker who got screwed in that mess.

Nobody is trying to get the 35% (other than the delusional people like Schultz and Biden who think they're gonna magically get bipartisanship) the focus should be on those who stopped voting or never voted and those who switched from Obama to Trump. These things are possible if the party stops acting like a think tank for oligarchs who essentially want to get nothing done that improves workers' conditions, growing inequality, an actual solution to healthcare, or real meaningful climate change action like a Green New Deal.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

A lot of these same people voted for Obama until he gave a bailout to the banks committing criminal acts and stood by while they illegally foreclosed homes and did nothing to help the blue collar worker who got screwed in that mess.

Nobody is trying to get the 35% (other than the delusional people like Schultz and Biden who think they're gonna magically get bipartisanship) the focus should be on those who stopped voting or never voted and those who switched from Obama to Trump. These things are possible if the party stops acting like a think tank for oligarchs who essentially want to get nothing done that improves workers' conditions, growing inequality, an actual solution to healthcare, or real meaningful climate change action like a Green New Deal.

I actually agree with this line of thinking as well.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

They don't want an improved life. They want their steel mill, their coal mine, and their factory jobs in spite of the fact that those are forever gone. Since no one can give them back, they'll settle for voting to watch the world burn. The key is in the suburbs, not the blue collar.

YES! That is the battleground. Educated voters who out of habit had been voting GOP thinking they were (laughably) better at managing the budget and taxes. The Research Triangle in NC. The Atlanta suburbs. The Houston, Dallas and Austin suburbs. These are the places that Dems need to convert, much like the did with the DC suburbs in northern Virginia. They're also the places where Dems made gains in congressional races last year.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

May be. May be. But when are we finally going to bust the cult up? Cause that's what Fox News and Republicans are, a cult hell bent on destroying America.

And you think the Dems ignoring them will do that? It only HELPS their ratings. Half their shtick is being the martyr against the Liberals and the MSM so all you do is make them look like exactly what they say they are.

People watch Faux that dont vote R. Speak to them. Break up the propaganda. If it only works on 1 of 10,000 that is still one. You lose nothing. Warren gains nothing making this play.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

And you think the Dems ignoring them will do that? It only HELPS their ratings. Half their shtick is being the martyr against the Liberals and the MSM so all you do is make them look like exactly what they say they are.

People watch Faux that dont vote R.

I don't think placating them helps either. And no one has ever convinced me otherwise.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Kill 'em with kindness. On the surface that sounds naive because in reality the Dems need to campaign with a message that Trump is bad for America. But you're not going to appeal to a select many by repeating Hillary's, "deplorable" bungle. This doesn't mean going on Fox and kissing anyone's *** either. You also don't need to bother with Russia, collusion, corruption, etc. Enough of them don't care and it sounds too hysterical. Explain without hyperbole and over exuberance what you stand for, and detail which specific Trump policies are hurting the middle class. A lot of people didn't vote for Trump as we already know, they voted against Hillary. Don't give them that excuse this time.

This.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

This.

Show me an example of it working.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

I don't think placating them helps either. And no one has ever convinced me otherwise.

It is placating them by being on their shows? Are the Rs placating CNN by being on their shows? Are conservatives placating Bill Maher when they go on his show? No they are getting their message out there to the people who dont pay attention to them. It is an attempt to expand the bubble.

Bernie Sanders did more to bolster his campaign by being on Faux than he did with any speech he has given the last two cycles. Hell one stupid question by the Faux hosts trying to play "Gotcha" moved the needle on Medicare For All.

But yeah...it does nothing we should just ignore Faux because they will just go away.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Show me an example of it working.

How would I even show you this?

Are you actually interested in having a conversation or are you just doing your bit...because I know you are smarter than this. And your way doesnt help in any way it just makes things worse.

Faux isnt going anywhere so just stop pretending if the Dems ignore them they will all of a sudden be a non-factor.

Tell me how Warren helped herself by badmouthing Faux and staying away from them. Certainly didnt help her numbers in any significant way.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

It is placating them by being on their shows? Are the Rs placating CNN by being on their shows? Are conservatives placating Bill Maher when they go on his show? No they are getting their message out there to the people who dont pay attention to them. It is an attempt to expand the bubble.

Bernie Sanders did more to bolster his campaign by being on Faux than he did with any speech he has given the last two cycles. Hell one stupid question by the Faux hosts trying to play "Gotcha" moved the needle on Medicare For All.

But yeah...it does nothing we should just ignore Faux because they will just go away.

Yes. Validating them does more harm then good.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

How would I even show you this?

Are you actually interested in having a conversation or are you just doing your bit...because I know you are smarter than this. And your way doesnt help in any way it just makes things worse.

Faux isnt going anywhere so just stop pretending if the Dems ignore them they will all of a sudden be a non-factor.

Tell me how Warren helped herself by badmouthing Faux and staying away from them. Certainly didnt help her numbers in any significant way.

Every time you go on there you validate Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham, and Tucker Carlson. That helps no one.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Quoted for truth. The nominee should hire one of those Roman guys who whispers this in her ear all day long.

Yeah...and Health Care. Every speech should, every tv appearance, every article and every sign should be a reminder that the GOP wants to get rid of your health care and the Dems want to give you more of it! Even Trumpers want their Health Care.

Kep you posted an article months ago about how the Dems used to be Santa, winning because of what they gave to the people. (until Laffer and Reagan changed the narrative) Go back to that. Be the Party that wants everyone to have what they need. And dont speak in broad terms, make sure the individual knows they are getting it. People dont care if everyone has something, they only care that they have it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

Again disagree here. 20 years ago people voted on their economic interests. Sadly the country has changed even from then. Blue collar workers tend to feel nothing is going to save them, so they might as well go out and vote for somebody who will screw the people they don't like. Generally that means non-whites. Could mean liberals, elites, blah blah blah blah. Its always something. GOP voters, and that includes those sanctified working class types that we're all supposed to worship, are driven by hate and resentment.

People are making the classic mistake that you can appeal to Republicans logically around policy. You may very well have a policy for improving the lives of the working class. That's great, but if you don't couple it with "and we're gonna kick all those illegals out of the country right now!!!!" they will NOT vote for you. Its a cult. For every .01% of the people who leave the cult the rest you aren't going to be able to reach.

No one has mentioned appealing to Republicans. We are talking about appealing to the people who didnt vote or vote for Dump for reasons other than Party. Not the same thing no matter how much you and Scooby want it to be.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

YES! That is the battleground. Educated voters who out of habit had been voting GOP thinking they were (laughably) better at managing the budget and taxes. The Research Triangle in NC. The Atlanta suburbs. The Houston, Dallas and Austin suburbs. These are the places that Dems need to convert, much like the did with the DC suburbs in northern Virginia. They're also the places where Dems made gains in congressional races last year.

I don't know if that represented voters changing their minds or just changing demographics of those areas. In NoVa, for example, the Olds are just as racist and hidebound as they always were. The new people are all liberals from tier 1 universities and there are simply so many of us that we've bulldozed the Olds.

Uneducated, poor whites are lost to the Democratic party forever. We should stop stopping over for them wherever we can. We should announce a statement of principles where we differ from the orcs:

1. Democrats believe in gender equality; Republicans believe in misogyny.
2. Democrats believe in racial equality; Republicans believe in white supremacy.
3. Democrats believe science should determine policy. Republicans believe culture should determine policy.
4. Democrats believe facts are truth. Republicans believe faith is truth.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democrat Challengers Part II: There Can Be Only One

How would I even show you this?

Are you actually interested in having a conversation or are you just doing your bit...because I know you are smarter than this. And your way doesnt help in any way it just makes things worse.

Faux isnt going anywhere so just stop pretending if the Dems ignore them they will all of a sudden be a non-factor.

Tell me how Warren helped herself by badmouthing Faux and staying away from them. Certainly didnt help her numbers in any significant way.

Warren helped herself by being the one Dem not afraid to call out the media. Fox isn't like CNN. Fox is Pravda, a public mouthpiece for a corrupt party. CNN is like radio America - boring, vanilla and dedicated to not being seen as partisan (and hence easily manipulated).

You are correct that Fox isn't going anywhere, but the entire conservative movement in this country - from Chump to Fox to the NRA to Trump Humpers and everybody in between needs to be considered part of a treasonous money laundering cult who would take money from the Taliban if the check was big enough. That's how you get the educated voters to continue to migrate over to the Dems - the people who believe in crazy stuff like science for example.