2019 Transfers

[Offsides Guy]

Re: 2019 Transfers

If the head coach the player committed to leaves, I give the player a pass on transferring. Everyone talks about how you should commit to the school & program and not the coach but the reality is the coach is a huge part of the equation.

I agree with those who say you should have to sit for a year when transferring (unless there's a head coaching change involved). The WCHA (and other conferences?) have the rule and it seems to have worked fine. If a player is really that miserable at the school they chose, sitting out a year while still maintaining four full years of eligibility should not be a barrier to transferring. (Worked out fine for Schammel going from Mankato to MN for example.)

Also, the younger generation seems to have a penchant for easily leaving when the team, program or job doesn't turn out to be everything they've hoped. I see it in youth and high school hockey all the time as players leave their home associations and high schools for supposed better programs and it certainly carries over to employment where changing jobs two or three times in two or three years is not unusual for them. Of course, parents are playing a role in allowing/encouraging the younger kids to leave for greener pastures as the parents think they're kid is the next big thing and "deserves better."

In the end, making transferring just a bit harder for the players isn't a bad idea. Trying to work through some discomfort is better in the long run as things may absolutely turn out to be great after the rough patch. It's definitely something I've tried to teach my older teenagers...with mixed results...

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Honest question: do you feel the same way about their commitment level if the coach leaves after a year or two? This happens all the time (especially in D3!).

If a coach leaves, players should be able to leave. The coach broke the commitment. To me the commitment is more to the coach than the school. The school isn't recruiting, the coach is.

 

[GTOWN]

If a coach leaves, players should be able to leave. The coach broke the commitment. To me the commitment is more to the coach than the school. The school isn't recruiting, the coach is.

Then we agree. Perhaps there’s a middle ground that says: if the coach leaves then a player can transfer without penalty. If a player chooses to transfer for other reasons, then there’s a mandatory 1 year ‘waiting’ period, obviously without losing eligibility.

 

[robertearle]

Re: 2019 Transfers

To me the commitment is more to the coach than the school. The school isn't recruiting, the coach is.

A Wisconsin counter-example for you, from volleyball.

From 2013 through 2016, the Wisconsin volleyball team had a setter (the 'quarterback' of the team) named Lauren Carlini. Coming out of high school, everybody knew Carlini was going to be great. And during her senior year in high school, Wisconsin replaced their head VB coach. So all the other schools figured her long-time commitment to Wisconsin was 'open' for last minute recruiting, because of the coaching change. But Carlini was committed to Wisconsin, whether it was the old coach or the new coach.

The reason she committed to Wisconsin in the first place? When she was much younger and getting interested in VB, Wisconsin had a player named Mary Carlini, no relation. But Lauren is from greater Chicago, so her parents brought her up to Madison a couple times to see the other Carlini play. And Lauren fell in love with Madison and the old Field House, and Wisconsin VB, etc etc.

(She went on to be 3-time All-American, 2014 Big Ten Player of the year, the first VB player to ever win the Sullivan Award. Just this week, her pro team won one of the big European championships, with her as the first-string setter.)

 

[ARM]

Re: 2019 Transfers

We talk a lot about the impact of the coach, but I think that the impact of the teammates is even greater. We've all been in groups (a high school class, a roommate in a dorm or house, a group of neighbors, one sibling or cousin in a family, etc.) where one or more individuals just doesn't mesh well with the rest. Yes, you have to play for the coach, but you have to live with the team.

If you're a college student and you decide that you have little in common with most of the others on campus, you can transfer. We say that student athletes are students first and athletes second. So I think that student athletes should be able to transfer just like other students.

I agree with Timothy A that it would be optimal if it meant something to the player to want to honor the commitment that she made to the program. However, she has to want this; we can't want it for her.

It doesn't benefit anyone to force a player to remain at a school if she is truly miserable there. Often, it isn't even a case of being unhappy. Jackie Pieper transferred to Minnesota not because she didn't like Merrimack, but because it didn't have the major she now wanted to pursue. I don't think that the Lam's were all that unhappy at Minnesota, but playing for North Dakota was what they had always wanted to do.

These kids get one life. I'm all for letting them live it.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: 2019 Transfers

And these transfers will probably take away a scholarship from an existing player so the transferring player gets one, so not only are they screwing their former team by leaving them in the lurch, they are screwing a player or players on their new team.

I highly doubt anyone has scholarship money not utilized at this point. There's no one committing to play this season. So someone IS either getting booted or losing some of their scholarship money. If Watts end up @ UW, someone IS losing.

Where did you get your information regarding all scholarships being used and that when a player transfers that means an existing player loses one? I know that not every scholarship at BU is used every year, so if a player transfers their is money available without having to take one away from a current player.

Furthermore, if you look at my NCAA Financials spreadsheet you can see how many scholarships were used by every public school from 2010-16. For the women's teams the average was just over 17 per year per school. So, on average each public school had 1 scholarship per year that could have been offered to a transfer without having to "take away" a scholarship from a then current player.

Sean

 

[Reddington]

Where did you get your information regarding all scholarships being used and that when a player transfers that means an existing player loses one? I know that not every scholarship at BU is used every year, so if a player transfers their is money available without having to take one away from a current player.

Furthermore, if you look at my NCAA Financials spreadsheet you can see how many scholarships were used by every public school from 2010-16. For the women's teams the average was just over 17 per year per school. So, on average each public school had 1 scholarship per year that could have been offered to a transfer without having to "take away" a scholarship from a then current player.

Sean

Wisconsin is a u pay for two we pay for two school. Don't count them out. Not every player of course but a solid percentage.

In addition, I know this conversation has been here before but, just because you can give 18 full scholarships, does not mean they are all fully funded.

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Wisconsin is a u pay for two we pay for two school.

Which changes things dramatically. Even at Big 10 schools, scholarships are only guaranteed if you get a full ride as a freshman. Any scholarship that is awarded later, or is only partial, is strictly a one year deal that can be renewed at the coach's discretion.

 

[Fiveholio]

Re: 2019 Transfers

We talk a lot about the impact of the coach, but I think that the impact of the teammates is even greater. We've all been in groups (a high school class, a roommate in a dorm or house, a group of neighbors, one sibling or cousin in a family, etc.) where one or more individuals just doesn't mesh well with the rest. Yes, you have to play for the coach, but you have to live with the team.

If you're a college student and you decide that you have little in common with most of the others on campus, you can transfer. We say that student athletes are students first and athletes second. So I think that student athletes should be able to transfer just like other students.

I agree with Timothy A that it would be optimal if it meant something to the player to want to honor the commitment that she made to the program. However, she has to want this; we can't want it for her.

It doesn't benefit anyone to force a player to remain at a school if she is truly miserable there. Often, it isn't even a case of being unhappy. Jackie Pieper transferred to Minnesota not because she didn't like Merrimack, but because it didn't have the major she now wanted to pursue. I don't think that the Lam's were all that unhappy at Minnesota, but playing for North Dakota was what they had always wanted to do.

These kids get one life. I'm all for letting them live it.

Agree with your statements, however coaches,parents,players etc need to be wary of of little "Suzy". If Suzy has a problem with Janice and Suzy has a problem with Sara and Suzy has a problem with Jim Guess who is the problem? Some will never be happy until their parents tell them the truth about their shortcomings. Bouncing around from school to school will not help the Suzie's of the world, it will only make it worse

 

[pokechecker]

Re: 2019 Transfers

These kids get one life. I'm all for letting them live it.

Well yes, but we are talking about athletes who are doing it on somebody else's dime.
They have a right to transfer, we have a right, an obligation really, since it is our money being spent, to see that it is well spent. I realize lefties look at it as play money since it isn’t yours …

It doesn't benefit anyone to force a player to remain at a school if she is truly miserable there. Often, it isn't even a case of being unhappy. Jackie Pieper transferred to Minnesota not because she didn't like Merrimack, but because it didn't have the major she now wanted to pursue. I don't think that the Lam's were all that unhappy at Minnesota, but playing for North Dakota was what they had always wanted to do.

Not typical examples
both Lamoureux's were excellent students, one of them even was the WCHA scholar athlete of the year

Pieper is/was a Speech-Language-Hearing Sciences major and had a high enough GPA to be on the WCHA All-Academic Team and the dean’s list at Merrimack. I’m not seeing that from the other transfers, most of them have easy majors and they do not appear to be doing all that well in school. Today, if you show up most of the time and do all the required work, no matter how mediocre it is, you are going to get a B. How they manage to get less than a 3.0 GPA I cannot fathom. What’s surprising to me is that if you talk to any Canadian long enough eventually, they’ll tell you how their educational system (and just about everything else) is so much better than the US yet looking at the academic achievement of Canadian hockey players you just don’t see it. Yeah, there are exceptions, but most seem to be closer to the stereotype of a “dumb jock” than an honor student.

While I agree that they should be allowed to transfer let’s not start shoveling BS about why they are transferring. Most of them are transferring in hopes of improving their achievement in hockey, it’s the only thing that matters when they go back to Canada (or so they think). Most of the US players, while encumbered with the inferior US educational system, seem to understand once college hockey is over, you’d have better taken advantage of the educational opportunities or your afterlife will involve a conveyer belt or serving food and/or drinks. Of course the ladies can always use their BA to change diapers and wipe running noses.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Then we agree. Perhaps there’s a middle ground that says: if the coach leaves then a player can transfer without penalty. If a player chooses to transfer for other reasons, then there’s a mandatory 1 year ‘waiting’ period, obviously without losing eligibility.

Makes total sense to me.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Where did you get your information regarding all scholarships being used and that when a player transfers that means an existing player loses one? I know that not every scholarship at BU is used every year, so if a player transfers their is money available without having to take one away from a current player.

Furthermore, if you look at my NCAA Financials spreadsheet you can see how many scholarships were used by every public school from 2010-16. For the women's teams the average was just over 17 per year per school. So, on average each public school had 1 scholarship per year that could have been offered to a transfer without having to "take away" a scholarship from a then current player.

Sean

That is one heck of a spreadsheet. Will my head stop spinning at any point?

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Me in this thread literally every single day

<img src="https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif">

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Me in this thread literally every single day

<img src="https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif">

I think we're all being respectful and civilized, what is your take?

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

I think we're all being respectful and civilized

Some people definitely are not lol

What is your take?

Word for word what ARM said

 

[ARM]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Not typical examples

True, but I didn't claim that they were. I'm not sure that there are that many typical examples. Even some that we think from the outside are typical, aren't all that typical once you know the particulars. Schammel transferring to UM from MSU seems like it would be, but it is kind of odd when the suggestion comes from her MSU coach. Someone like Reilly may be more typical, but having spoken to the original PSU coach, I was kind of surprised that more people didn't want to transfer.

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Some people definitely are not lol

Yeah? Well, **** you.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Yeah? Well, **** you.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2019 Transfers

A Wisconsin counter-example for you, from volleyball.

From 2013 through 2016, the Wisconsin volleyball team had a setter (the 'quarterback' of the team) named Lauren Carlini. Coming out of high school, everybody knew Carlini was going to be great. And during her senior year in high school, Wisconsin replaced their head VB coach. So all the other schools figured her long-time commitment to Wisconsin was 'open' for last minute recruiting, because of the coaching change. But Carlini was committed to Wisconsin, whether it was the old coach or the new coach.

The reason she committed to Wisconsin in the first place? When she was much younger and getting interested in VB, Wisconsin had a player named Mary Carlini, no relation. But Lauren is from greater Chicago, so her parents brought her up to Madison a couple times to see the other Carlini play. And Lauren fell in love with Madison and the old Field House, and Wisconsin VB, etc etc.

(She went on to be 3-time All-American, 2014 Big Ten Player of the year, the first VB player to ever win the Sullivan Award. Just this week, her pro team won one of the big European championships, with her as the first-string setter.)

Right, the school does have pull on a player as well. They also DO come for academics as none of them will ever earn a living playing hockey, so it's not just about the coach but they are the face of the school and get them connected to the academic types who can sell the school itself. Certainly some schools are never on a player's radar due to the majors and programs they don't offer. The B6 usually have something for everyone.

 

[Hockeynation]

Re: 2019 Transfers

Any update on Watts? Word on the street is she is down to 2 schools and close to a decision. Clarkson & Wisconsin with Upstate New York in the lead down the stretch! However, as we all know it's never over till is over.