2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

[Rover]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Its a weird day when mookie starts making sense on a political thread!

Climate change is an issue you avoid on a national level for this cycle. Sure, for the 7 Goopers in CA sitting in Hillary won seats maybe you press the issue but not everywhere.

You also have to avoid a wholesale change in the tax code because once you do that people start thinking everyone's taxes are going to go up. As awful as this sounds, lunatic Steve Bannon has the messaging right on this issue when he said last week (allegedly) the top tier tax rate needs to begin with a "4". Simple, concise, and if you're someone who thinks the top tax rate is like 10% you can relate to that.

But to me, the big, BIG issue here is health care. Medicare buy in from age 50 on and Medicaid buy in for anyone eligible for ACA subsidies has multiple political benefits. It unites the entire Dem base, it puts GOP balls in a vice as its their supporters who'd benefit, and its a simple piggyback on two already popular entitlements. How do you pay for it? Higher payroll taxes on the rich! That wraps two issues into one! Simple. Simple. Simple. Clear and concise.

Oh, and Trump + everyone in his party is batchit crazy.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Its a weird day when mookie starts making sense on a political thread!

Climate change is an issue you avoid on a national level for this cycle. Sure, for the 7 Goopers in CA sitting in Hillary won seats maybe you press the issue but not everywhere.

You also have to avoid a wholesale change in the tax code because once you do that people start thinking everyone's taxes are going to go up. As awful as this sounds, lunatic Steve Bannon has the messaging right on this issue when he said last week (allegedly) the top tier tax rate needs to begin with a "4". Simple, concise, and if you're someone who thinks the top tax rate is like 10% you can relate to that.

But to me, the big, BIG issue here is health care. Medicare buy in from age 50 on and Medicaid buy in for anyone eligible for ACA subsidies has multiple political benefits. It unites the entire Dem base, it puts GOP balls in a vice as its their supporters who'd benefit, and its a simple piggyback on two already popular entitlements. How do you pay for it? Higher payroll taxes on the rich! That wraps two issues into one! Simple. Simple. Simple. Clear and concise.

Oh, and Trump + everyone in his party is batchit crazy.

The best way to handle taxes is probably the way the GOP does it. Run on red meat stuff and then just pay your tax structure in the dark.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

The best way to handle taxes is probably the way the GOP does it. Run on red meat stuff and then just pay your tax structure in the dark.

Maybe, maybe not.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/02/us/politics/republican-tax-cuts.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

WASHINGTON — Something strange has been happening to taxes in Republican-dominated states: They are going up.

Conservative lawmakers in Kansas, South Carolina and Tennessee have agreed to significant tax increases in recent weeks to meet demands for more revenue.

After Mr. Brownback took office in 2011, he pursued a plan that included cuts and, in some cases, an outright elimination of taxes for businesses and individuals to help invigorate the state’s underperforming economy. He described it as “an experiment” in conservative governance that could demonstrate what Republicans were capable of if they controlled legislative and executive branches across the country. (He is Kansas’ first Republican governor since 2003.)

The conservative movement got behind him. The plan was approved with the lobbying muscle of the billionaire Koch brothers’ political network, which is overseen from Wichita, where one of the brothers, Charles G. Koch lives. It had the blessing of prominent conservative economists like Stephen Moore and Arthur Laffer, the Republican Party’s foremost supply-side evangelist.

In urging the Kansas Legislature to act, Mr. Laffer and Mr. Moore said the cuts would have a “near immediate” positive impact on the economy. Mr. Brownback said the plan would pay for itself.

In Kansas, the predicted economic bloom did not materialize. Employment and economic growth have lagged far behind the rest of the nation. The state treasury had so little money to spread around that the Kansas Supreme Court found that the state’s spending on public education was unconstitutionally low.

However, we never learn from the past. Even the immediate past or present.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I love that they listened to Stephen Moore...the guy who predicted Sarah Palin would be the first woman President right before she tanked McCain's career.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Taxes, healthcare, and infrastructure. Let's stick with those three as the bulk of the platform, because everyone cares about them.

Climate change is a losing issue. You either believe 1) The majority of the scientific community is correct that it's happening and we're to blame, or 2) It's all fake news manufactured by China/the deep state, the scientists were paid off, and it's costing you employment. Certainly, once Dems are elected and in the majority, they should work on environmental causes, but on the campaign trail it should be a side note.

Abortion on-demand is a losing issue, and on this particular subject, Democrats continue to lose ground every year in the collective opinion of all Americans. Again, once Dems are elected and in the majority, they should support its continued legality, but on the campaign trail it should be a side note.

Gun control is a losing issue, even Kep has acknowledged this recently. I wouldn't even bring it up as part of the platform, other than to encourage responsible ownership and safety.

Socialized college tuition is a losing issue, especially when so many of our public K-12 schools are failing.

(For context, I agree with much of this post, and I'm only using it as an example as it captures much of the discussion around it.)

I see the pendulum has swung back to the right around here. A few weeks ago, this thread, or one of its predecessors, had a strong theme of "don't pander to the R's, you're never going to get them to change their minds or votes. Instead, focus on the progressives who may have sat out 2016, energize them by being what we are, full blooded liberal progressives".

In fairness, it's a tough go, made tougher by the fact that young progressives think they're bullet proof and don't vote, and gerrymandering. If we had 100% turnout and fairly constructed Congressional districts in this country it would be sayonara Republican party. In other words, if we had representative democracy...

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

In fairness, it's a tough go, made tougher by the fact that young progressives think they're bullet proof and don't vote, and gerrymandering. If we had 100% turnout and fairly constructed Congressional districts in this country it would be sayonara Republican party. In other words, if we had representative democracy...

It would be sayonara current GOP. The Republicans are politicians first and ideologues second; they would adapt and slide back from the Madness, as electoral politics is supposed to work.

But the GOP is never going to disappear -- the two major parties run our political system, not the other way around. The duopoly is not going anywhere,

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

It would be sayonara current GOP. The Republicans are politicians first and ideologues second; they would adapt and slide back from the Madness, as electoral politics is supposed to work.

But the GOP is never going to disappear -- the two major parties run our political system, not the other way around. The duopoly is not going anywhere,

Is there another Republican party other than the current one?

Kind of my smartazz answer, I agree with what you’re saying, I think we’re just at different grains – I’m most definitely talking about the CURRENT collection of thugs, charlatans, con men, opportunists, criminals, liars, mental degenerates, mouth breathers, and sociopaths.

And while the duopoly may be at or close to the root of much of what’s dysfunctional in this country right now, obviously a monopoly is profoundly frightening – I don’t care if it’s the Sweetness & Light Party made up of the best ideas of Sweden, Denmark, and the New Deal, with Lincoln himself in charge, that obviously ends badly at some point down the road. Honest conflict is a great thing that drives the world – but with voter suppression, gerrymandering, Citizens United, and Faux News anything honest has been driven right out of the process at this point. You add Russian hacking of the electoral process to that mix and I cannot believe what passes for the leadership in the current GOP doesn’t understand what an outright powder keg they’re abiding right now.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Is there another Republican party other than the current one?

Kind of my smartazz answer, I agree with what you’re saying, I think we’re just at different grains – I’m most definitely talking about the CURRENT collection of thugs, charlatans, con men, opportunists, criminals, liars, mental degenerates, mouth breathers, and sociopaths.

And while the duopoly may be at or close to the root of much of what’s dysfunctional in this country right now, obviously a monopoly is profoundly frightening – I don’t care if it’s the Sweetness & Light Party made up of the best ideas of Sweden, Denmark, and the New Deal, with Lincoln himself in charge, that obviously ends badly at some point down the road. Honest conflict is a great thing that drives the world – but with voter suppression, gerrymandering, Citizens United, and Faux News anything honest has been driven right out of the process at this point. You add Russian hacking of the electoral process to that mix and I cannot believe what passes for the leadership in the current GOP doesn’t understand what an outright powder keg they’re abiding right now.

I think the actual GOP leadership has its head so far up its own beltway as-s that it has no idea what is festering in the rest of the country. But plenty of mid-level staffers and less senior GOP officials know and they're still flogging all their nonsense rhetoric and fomenting violence, and that's just sociopathic behavior. As long as they get their stack the rest of the world can, and may, burn. These are not good people.

It's going to be hard to pry them out of power, since they'll use any means and have no allegiance to our democratic institutions. I think the majority of Republican voters would turn from them in disgust if they ever realized the truth, but they are locked inside the RW media chamber so they will never know. The Backfire Effect will take care of those on the edges who accidentally hear truths that contradict their ideological programming. It's a closed system.

Hopefully when it comes it comes as a tidal wave rejection of the GOP, its tactics, and its horrific policies. Inching up to the line will allow them to keep adjusting and tweaking voting rights -- we have to jump all the way over them to eject them from power and then restore democracy.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I recall a different Democratic party than the one we have today, too.

Parties change as the electorate changes.

It is also important to have checks and balances in the body politic. One party rule is not good.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I recall a different Democratic party than the one we have today, too.

Parties change as the electorate changes.

It is also important to have checks and balances in the body politic. One party rule is not good.

joecct, you don't happen to work for Readers Digest do you? You may have missed your calling.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I think the actual GOP leadership has its head so far up its own beltway as-s that it has no idea what is festering in the rest of the country. But plenty of mid-level staffers and less senior GOP officials know and they're still flogging all their nonsense rhetoric and fomenting violence, and that's just sociopathic behavior. As long as they get their stack the rest of the world can, and may, burn. These are not good people.

It's going to be hard to pry them out of power, since they'll use any means and have no allegiance to our democratic institutions. I think the majority of Republican voters would turn from them in disgust if they ever realized the truth, but they are locked inside the RW media chamber so they will never know. The Backfire Effect will take care of those on the edges who accidentally hear truths that contradict their ideological programming. It's a closed system.

Hopefully when it comes it comes as a tidal wave rejection of the GOP, its tactics, and its horrific policies. Inching up to the line will allow them to keep adjusting and tweaking voting rights -- we have to jump all the way over them to eject them from power and then restore democracy.

I have been happily surprised to see the negative response to the health care bill by some Republican governors. I probably shouldn’t be surprised since they’re the ones who are going to be left holding the bag but at this point I’ll take even self-preservation from that crew. And the general “go eph yourself” response for voting records and information has been heartening, too. Even the good old boys aren’t playing along, again, self-preservation, they surely don’t want any of that stuff to see the light of day no matter who’s asking for it, but I’ll take it.

But that's pretty slim pickings in terms of any signs of decency or intelligence from the right.

At the very least this has to expose the Republicans' supposed love of patriotism, democracy, the Constitution as the empty smokescreens we've long thought them to be, right? Please? Can we at least get that out of this monstrosity of an administration and Congress?

 

[burd]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I have been happily surprised to see the negative response to the health care bill by some Republican governors. I probably shouldn’t be surprised since they’re the ones who are going to be left holding the bag but at this point I’ll take even self-preservation from that crew. And the general “go eph yourself” response for voting records and information has been heartening, too. Even the good old boys aren’t playing along, again, self-preservation, they surely don’t want any of that stuff to see the light of day no matter who’s asking for it, but I’ll take it.

But that's pretty slim pickings in terms of any signs of decency or intelligence from the right.

At the very least this has to expose the Republican's supposed love of patriotism, democracy, the Constitution as the empty smokescreens we've long thought them to be, right? Please? Can we at least get that out of this monstrosity of an administration and Congress?

Trump's glaring incompetence coupled with his history of eating his own will eventually change the strategies GOPers follow. More and more members of the pack are figuring out that this leader will get them killed. The smell is on him.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I have been happily surprised to see the negative response to the health care bill by some Republican governors. I probably shouldn’t be surprised since they’re the ones who are going to be left holding the bag but at this point I’ll take even self-preservation from that crew. And the general “go eph yourself” response for voting records and information has been heartening, too. Even the good old boys aren’t playing along, again, self-preservation, they surely don’t want any of that stuff to see the light of day no matter who’s asking for it, but I’ll take it.

But that's pretty slim pickings in terms of any signs of decency or intelligence from the right.

At the very least this has to expose the Republicans' supposed love of patriotism, democracy, the Constitution as the empty smokescreens we've long thought them to be, right? Please? Can we at least get that out of this monstrosity of an administration and Congress?

The GOP will always be seen as patriotic and pro-military because they own the South which is so over-the-top militaristic, and because they bang the war drums and act like an adolescent male, and many people equate bloviation and threats with "strength."

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Agreed, at this point I'm sure the Louisiana Election Commission would sooner ship their file cabinets and hard drives straight to Nancy Pelosi rather than give Trump any leverage over them. He'd have their nuts in a vise so fast half the hotels in New Orleans would be "Trump Brands" overnight.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Agreed, at this point I'm sure the Louisiana Election Commission would sooner ship their file cabinets and hard drives straight to Nancy Pelosi rather than give Trump any leverage over them. He'd have their nuts in a vise so fast half the hotels in New Orleans would be "Trump Brands" overnight.

The entire GOP has figured out Trump is a ratf-cking, double-crossing, backstabbing and, worse than all of that to them, soft, glass-jawed and easily turned weasel.

But in this case I'm not sure what leverage he'd have over the states if they coughed up their voter data.

I'm VERY happy they aren't since holy sh-t just kiss democracy goodbye in one go, but how would doing so allow Trump to blackmail them?

 

[busterman62]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I agree with this completely. In fact my "keep it simple" is even easier. Don't advocate new targeted taxes at all. Go right to the tax code and set forward a very simple restoration of the multi-tiered system. Focus on the median income and go from there. 10% on median / 2, 20% on the median, 30% on m x 2, 40% on median x 3, up to 90%. The end. Roll everything into the general fund, no more dedicated taxes, no more difference in cap gains and earned income. That's as simple as you can get.

No, that's not the pull. The pull is single payer.

Your tax plan should make single payer a reality, at least from a fiscal standpoint. You won't have to pay physicians when they aren't working. If they're not working, they won't order tests or do procedures or whatever and costs will go down. $$$ saved.

Based on the above rates, an average Family Practice physician would pay 25% of their gross income. OB 35%, Cardiology 45%, Orthopedics 54% and Neurosurgery 57%. It looks like a great way to incentivize physicians to continue their average 60 hour work week (FYI, mine averages about 80-90 hrs/wk). I'm sure you won't have to wait at all for your appointment or procedure. Of course they could always bring back Selective Service and draft us all into the military then obligate service.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

The GOP will always be seen as patriotic and pro-military because they own the South which is so over-the-top militaristic, and because they bang the war drums and act like an adolescent male, and many people equate bloviation and threats with "strength."

Isn't good for you that they do?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Your tax plan should make single payer a reality, at least from a fiscal standpoint. You won't have to pay physicians when they aren't working. If they're not working, they won't order tests or do procedures or whatever and costs will go down. $$$ saved.

Based on the above rates, an average Family Practice physician would pay 25% of their gross income. OB 35%, Cardiology 45%, Orthopedics 54% and Neurosurgery 57%. It looks like a great way to incentivize physicians to continue their average 60 hour work week (FYI, mine averages about 80-90 hrs/wk). I'm sure you won't have to wait at all for your appointment or procedure. Of course they could always bring back Selective Service and draft us all into the military then obligate service.

You might want to find another doctor if yours is averaging a 90 hour work week. That's 13 hours a day, every single day of the week. Which means if he or she takes a weekend off here or there he or she is pulling a bunch of 18 hour days. That tired physician -- with no time at all for any sort of a personal life or relaxation and often with those kinds of hours is sleeping just a couple of hours a day -- is making mistakes. You know like prescribing miralax for restless leg syndrome instead of mirapex.

I know physicians work ridiculous hours when they are training (a school of thought that many think needs reworked) but no way would I willingly and knowingly subject myself to a doctor who never slept, any more than I'd get on an airliner with a pilot pulling 90 hour weeks.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

I know physicians work ridiculous hours when they are training (a school of thought that many think needs reworked) but no way would I willingly and knowingly subject myself to a doctor who never slept, any more than I'd get on an airliner with a pilot pulling 90 hour weeks.

If you frequent doctors you likely do not know how long they have been working and you likely have been seen by someone averaging 70+hours a week.

 

[bostonewe]

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

Re: 2018 Midterms 1: "Elections aren't just about who votes but who doesn't vote."

You might want to find another doctor if yours is averaging a 90 hour work week. That's 13 hours a day, every single day of the week. Which means if he or she takes a weekend off here or there he or she is pulling a bunch of 18 hour days. That tired physician -- with no time at all for any sort of a personal life or relaxation and often with those kinds of hours is sleeping just a couple of hours a day -- is making mistakes. You know like prescribing miralax for restless leg syndrome instead of mirapex.

I know physicians work ridiculous hours when they are training (a school of thought that many think needs reworked) but no way would I willingly and knowingly subject myself to a doctor who never slept, any more than I'd get on an airliner with a pilot pulling 90 hour weeks.

Having grown up with a doctor for a dad -- they are almost always working. Nursing home patient has a sudden change: call the doctor to order a med at 0130; patient in your practice comes into the emergency room and you don't utilize hospitalists: call the doctor for orders at 0330; Patient comes in for bloodwork at 1400 on a Saturday afternoon and the result is critical: call the doctor so he can instruct the patient on what to do next. While they may "only" see patients in their offices from 9 to 5, there is a ton of behind the scenes work that goes on.