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2018 Four Nations Cup
- Thread starter TonyTheTiger20
- Start date
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
I agree. And that's why I think it means more to them than it does to the rest of us. 3rd is somewhat of a victory and certainly better than 4th with minor bragging rights (for whatever that is worth) over your next door neighbour.
I agree. And that's why I think it means more to them than it does to the rest of us. 3rd is somewhat of a victory and certainly better than 4th with minor bragging rights (for whatever that is worth) over your next door neighbour.
https://www.nhl.com/video/four-nations-cup-gold-medal-game/t-277350912/c-62714103
Hopefully you have it sorted by now. Ice Garden thread says make sure flash is enabled on your browser, or try watching on a phone.
2-1 USA after one. Goals from Knight, Fortino (I think, may have been tipped), Samoskevich.
Great job by Coyne drawing a penalty to nullify Canada’s only PP opportunity. Also a nice stop by Szabados on a mini break away that Cameranesi had - the two are Beauts teammates now.
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Sort of an amateurish mistake by Szabados for the first US goal.
And I think a questionable call on Laroque who had both hands on her stick and was controlling the puck.
I think they should give Coyne 2 or 3 numbers to put on her jersey. It would make sense for fans because everyone knows that it is impossible for one person to be in 2 or 3 places at the same time.
Good game...lots of new faces (not sure about Brodt at this level).
Sort of an amateurish mistake by Szabados for the first US goal.
And I think a questionable call on Laroque who had both hands on her stick and was controlling the puck.
I think they should give Coyne 2 or 3 numbers to put on her jersey. It would make sense for fans because everyone knows that it is impossible for one person to be in 2 or 3 places at the same time.
Good game...lots of new faces (not sure about Brodt at this level).
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Well, nice patience shown by Brodt on the beautiful feed to Decker for a US goal.
Was going top say it earlier, I'll say it now...Decker is like a wood tick with 9 lives...she always persistently invades her opposition's comfort zone and she is almost impossible to get rid of...read "neutralize".
US doing a great job of constantly getting their sticks in Canada's passing lanes and tying up Canadian sticks in front of the US goal although less and less of that was required as the 2nd period wore on...Canada seem more and more offensively disorganized.
But I think that is to a large degree caused by the biggest difference between these two teams in the last few years which is to say the the superior total team average speed enjoyed by the US. It is a deadly advantage to have in countless sports.
It would also help if Canadian shots hit the net more often. And several times when an advantageous play started developing for Canada with the puck being advanced up ice...4 of them headed to the bench. Seem a bit disjuncted mentally. Facing superior speed will do that to you.
Well, nice patience shown by Brodt on the beautiful feed to Decker for a US goal.
Was going top say it earlier, I'll say it now...Decker is like a wood tick with 9 lives...she always persistently invades her opposition's comfort zone and she is almost impossible to get rid of...read "neutralize".
US doing a great job of constantly getting their sticks in Canada's passing lanes and tying up Canadian sticks in front of the US goal although less and less of that was required as the 2nd period wore on...Canada seem more and more offensively disorganized.
But I think that is to a large degree caused by the biggest difference between these two teams in the last few years which is to say the the superior total team average speed enjoyed by the US. It is a deadly advantage to have in countless sports.
It would also help if Canadian shots hit the net more often. And several times when an advantageous play started developing for Canada with the puck being advanced up ice...4 of them headed to the bench. Seem a bit disjuncted mentally. Facing superior speed will do that to you.
FiveHoleFrenzy
Well-known member
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
The only thing better would have been USA scoring "4" goals...Although this game should trigger a chiffon meltdown.
The only thing better would have been USA scoring "4" goals...Although this game should trigger a chiffon meltdown.
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Blackbeard
Well-known member
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Well deserved win by the US.
The story of this game was the superior US speed and Canada's failure to convert on several opportunities in the first half of the game.
They often took too long to make shooting decisions in the offensive zone and then took too long to take the shot once the decision had been made. Rigsby had a pretty easy night. You need to get her moving laterally to neutralize her natural advantage (although that would have the same effect on most goaltenders). Canada didn't come close to having that much puck control in close to even start thinking of implementing that strategy...thanks to the US defense.
Canada started by immediately implementing their game plan which was effective but not for too long.
Speed, speed, speed.
Well deserved win by the US.
The story of this game was the superior US speed and Canada's failure to convert on several opportunities in the first half of the game.
They often took too long to make shooting decisions in the offensive zone and then took too long to take the shot once the decision had been made. Rigsby had a pretty easy night. You need to get her moving laterally to neutralize her natural advantage (although that would have the same effect on most goaltenders). Canada didn't come close to having that much puck control in close to even start thinking of implementing that strategy...thanks to the US defense.
Canada started by immediately implementing their game plan which was effective but not for too long.
Speed, speed, speed.
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Did Gabel play in the first two periods? I noticed her a lot in the first US Canada game, but not until the PP in the third when they scored, in tonight’s game.
Looking ahead to Worlds, I question if Szabados will get enough work in the NW to prepare her to be the #1 for Canada. A 16 game schedule compared to CW’s 28 games, plus Szabados splits with Hensley. Strikes me as an opportunity for Maschmeyer or Tiley or Sauve to gain some ground.
Did Gabel play in the first two periods? I noticed her a lot in the first US Canada game, but not until the PP in the third when they scored, in tonight’s game.
Looking ahead to Worlds, I question if Szabados will get enough work in the NW to prepare her to be the #1 for Canada. A 16 game schedule compared to CW’s 28 games, plus Szabados splits with Hensley. Strikes me as an opportunity for Maschmeyer or Tiley or Sauve to gain some ground.
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
I feel so bad for Szabados. Clearly she is past her prime and has been riddled with so many injuries due to age and the toll that her body has suffered from playing in the men's game. IMO, other than lacasse (perhaps), the other canada goalies are headcases or just not reliable.
basically, the story of team canada women since 2013. Telegraphed plays only work on finland and sweden. Two quadrennials later and here we are, doing the same thing and expecting different results.
I had some elevated expectation about the new head coach of team canada women....until watching his interview/fluff piece. This team went from life support (2013) to now dead, and needs someone with perspective and judgment to turn this ship around (maybe too late for that, I don't see this happening in time for the upcoming quadrennial). Now what team canada women does NOT need is an arrogant misguided person to coach this team, and unfortunately, that is what team canada women have gotten IMO.
Doesn't it speak to the failure of team canada women that they did end up hiring a male NHL coach after the all-female coaching experiment failed? (at all levels, U18, U22, and Schuler etc.). Embarrassing. I am not a critical feminist theorist, but that seems like a huge failure on the feminist front (not to mention buffoonish of team canada women management).
I feel so bad for Szabados. Clearly she is past her prime and has been riddled with so many injuries due to age and the toll that her body has suffered from playing in the men's game. IMO, other than lacasse (perhaps), the other canada goalies are headcases or just not reliable.
basically, the story of team canada women since 2013. Telegraphed plays only work on finland and sweden. Two quadrennials later and here we are, doing the same thing and expecting different results.
I had some elevated expectation about the new head coach of team canada women....until watching his interview/fluff piece. This team went from life support (2013) to now dead, and needs someone with perspective and judgment to turn this ship around (maybe too late for that, I don't see this happening in time for the upcoming quadrennial). Now what team canada women does NOT need is an arrogant misguided person to coach this team, and unfortunately, that is what team canada women have gotten IMO.
Doesn't it speak to the failure of team canada women that they did end up hiring a male NHL coach after the all-female coaching experiment failed? (at all levels, U18, U22, and Schuler etc.). Embarrassing. I am not a critical feminist theorist, but that seems like a huge failure on the feminist front (not to mention buffoonish of team canada women management).
TonyTheTiger20
#SOAR
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
I'm not going to sit here and pretend I don't love to see Hockey Canada be bad. Because I do! But if this "Watts Wasn't Good At Pushups" thing is true I'm going to revel in their failures even more because they deserve every bit of piling on they get.
I'm not going to sit here and pretend I don't love to see Hockey Canada be bad. Because I do! But if this "Watts Wasn't Good At Pushups" thing is true I'm going to revel in their failures even more because they deserve every bit of piling on they get.
Puckdrop14
New member
I believe HC requires you to pass a beep test. It’s a mess and not sure it can be fixed quickly. Tired of seeing same old doing the same thing and achieve same results. Very predictable outcome. Hats off to the USA for the win.
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Sad that the Canadian announcers (and others in Canada) were constantly calling her "the best goaltender in the world". That might have been true at one time(many would rightly argue that) but not now. It is not her fault they finished second.
I know it is my prejudice but to me Canadian hockey is always focused on the physical first. You see it on the mens side in spades and it is designed to produce the 'grinders' the NHL desperately needs. Yes, the players need to be tough, it is a physical game. Yes they need to be conditioned & strong. But in a short series, 6-10 games, you are not going to grind down many opponents because they are tough & conditioned also.
If this string of losses wakes HC up to the need to focus on faster and more skilled players it will be a win for hockey even if it means more losses for USA hockey
Sad that the Canadian announcers (and others in Canada) were constantly calling her "the best goaltender in the world". That might have been true at one time(many would rightly argue that) but not now. It is not her fault they finished second.
I know it is my prejudice but to me Canadian hockey is always focused on the physical first. You see it on the mens side in spades and it is designed to produce the 'grinders' the NHL desperately needs. Yes, the players need to be tough, it is a physical game. Yes they need to be conditioned & strong. But in a short series, 6-10 games, you are not going to grind down many opponents because they are tough & conditioned also.
If this string of losses wakes HC up to the need to focus on faster and more skilled players it will be a win for hockey even if it means more losses for USA hockey
I have to admit while I was watching I wondered, "Is this the best Canada has to offer?" I was a bit bored by it too. It definitely wasn't very exciting hockey. It's a shame.
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Until history proves otherwise, I would expect another in a long list of hotly contested battles when they fight for Gold in Beijing.
Edit: Adding link showing game highlights: https://youtu.be/hi89dzB-Rv0
I think the Canadians might be trying to lull the Americans to sleep, making them overconfident and complacent for "the big one" in '22.
Until history proves otherwise, I would expect another in a long list of hotly contested battles when they fight for Gold in Beijing.Edit: Adding link showing game highlights: https://youtu.be/hi89dzB-Rv0
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Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Canadian announcers/media covering hockey canada women's national team = fake news. They have been providing misleading homer-infused journalism and commentary that is just so divorced from the reality of the sad and dead state of team canada women. Simply, they are fake news.
The arrivals of Coyne and then Kessel in 2013 put this program on life support. This program (including the U18s) is now dead. But team canada women are unwilling to change how they play against usa. They are stuck in a stubborn mindset that the "Grind" type of play is the "Canadian way" of playing hockey, or the "Canadian DNA" if you will. What a dumb phrase. They are so morally sure of themselves, that they think the americans are playing the "wrong" style of hockey or the shortcut way. But anyways, look at these players who are the prototypical "grind" players: Spooner is undoubtedly the master of beep and fitness tests. She was irrelevant during the last quadrennial. Ditto Jenner (who I think should have been cut after Pyeongchang).
Another problem with team canada women is the culture. The look of resignation in Rebecca Johnston's eyes is just sad to see. Jenner wants to be friends with all of team usa. poulin is no ouellette or wickenheiser. Many a fluff piece is dedicated to who is the queen of "hungry hungry hippos" and games called "pie hole face" wherein they throw whipped cream at each others' faces. And of course, Mel Davidson is still running much of the show. And then now, team canada women realized what a critical mistake they made in bringing in all the all female coaching staffs and in an attempt to reverse this mistake, just hired a former NHL men's coach to coach this team who moans about how mean the NHL was to him and how much nicer the women are treating him, and that he is trying to use this women's coaching experience to get a job with the NHL again.
I am not sure that Szabados will continue much longer, if at all, and if she retires, hats off to her. She has arguably been the most valuable player for team canada women during the 2010 and 2014 Olympics and has done everything she could to give team canada women a chance even when they didn't deserve it. She and Haley Irwin will be greatly missed.
Canadian announcers/media covering hockey canada women's national team = fake news. They have been providing misleading homer-infused journalism and commentary that is just so divorced from the reality of the sad and dead state of team canada women. Simply, they are fake news.
The arrivals of Coyne and then Kessel in 2013 put this program on life support. This program (including the U18s) is now dead. But team canada women are unwilling to change how they play against usa. They are stuck in a stubborn mindset that the "Grind" type of play is the "Canadian way" of playing hockey, or the "Canadian DNA" if you will. What a dumb phrase. They are so morally sure of themselves, that they think the americans are playing the "wrong" style of hockey or the shortcut way. But anyways, look at these players who are the prototypical "grind" players: Spooner is undoubtedly the master of beep and fitness tests. She was irrelevant during the last quadrennial. Ditto Jenner (who I think should have been cut after Pyeongchang).
Another problem with team canada women is the culture. The look of resignation in Rebecca Johnston's eyes is just sad to see. Jenner wants to be friends with all of team usa. poulin is no ouellette or wickenheiser. Many a fluff piece is dedicated to who is the queen of "hungry hungry hippos" and games called "pie hole face" wherein they throw whipped cream at each others' faces. And of course, Mel Davidson is still running much of the show. And then now, team canada women realized what a critical mistake they made in bringing in all the all female coaching staffs and in an attempt to reverse this mistake, just hired a former NHL men's coach to coach this team who moans about how mean the NHL was to him and how much nicer the women are treating him, and that he is trying to use this women's coaching experience to get a job with the NHL again.
I am not sure that Szabados will continue much longer, if at all, and if she retires, hats off to her. She has arguably been the most valuable player for team canada women during the 2010 and 2014 Olympics and has done everything she could to give team canada women a chance even when they didn't deserve it. She and Haley Irwin will be greatly missed.
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Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Be grateful it is only hockey they are misleading about! One of the funniest (from an American perspective) scenes happened a few years ago when the Canadian men lost the 4th place game at a world championship. If you didn't have the sound on you would have assumed the PM had been assassinated. There were calls for a national commission to fix whatever was wrong.
But I really do hope they fix what is wrong. It is not good to have one team always dominant. It really is not healthy in the long run to have to only have 2+1 teams. The last couple of events I feel like Finland is slipping and we need them to push HC & USAH but it would be better still if Sweden, Germany, Russia, Norway and Switzerland all could step up their games so there was always a struggle to land in the final game. I don't like to see 'my' team lose but if the game is going to grow the risk needs to be there
Be grateful it is only hockey they are misleading about! One of the funniest (from an American perspective) scenes happened a few years ago when the Canadian men lost the 4th place game at a world championship. If you didn't have the sound on you would have assumed the PM had been assassinated. There were calls for a national commission to fix whatever was wrong.
But I really do hope they fix what is wrong. It is not good to have one team always dominant. It really is not healthy in the long run to have to only have 2+1 teams. The last couple of events I feel like Finland is slipping and we need them to push HC & USAH but it would be better still if Sweden, Germany, Russia, Norway and Switzerland all could step up their games so there was always a struggle to land in the final game. I don't like to see 'my' team lose but if the game is going to grow the risk needs to be there
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
Back to Canada and Chaffron's dismay with Team Canada, it would be interesting to see exactly what changes he/she believes should be made. Chaffron, please post your "dream lineup" that you would like to see represent Canada in the next international tournament (not sure, but might this not be the 2019 IIHF World's?).
Also, who would you recommend to coach the team, and who should take over as head of Canadian women's hockey? Obviously, that person should not be Mel Davidson, in your opinion, so who best to lead the whole organization, with Davidson no longer involved? Assume it's you, with a free reign, and the coaching staff and player roster is your's to determine.
Great points, ne7minder, couldn't agree more. If the men can have extremely competitive international tournaments, why shouldn't the women? One would hope that it's just historical, in that the men's game has been around much longer, and within each country they've had a lot more time to grow their talent level?
Back to Canada and Chaffron's dismay with Team Canada, it would be interesting to see exactly what changes he/she believes should be made. Chaffron, please post your "dream lineup" that you would like to see represent Canada in the next international tournament (not sure, but might this not be the 2019 IIHF World's?).
Also, who would you recommend to coach the team, and who should take over as head of Canadian women's hockey? Obviously, that person should not be Mel Davidson, in your opinion, so who best to lead the whole organization, with Davidson no longer involved? Assume it's you, with a free reign, and the coaching staff and player roster is your's to determine.
Still Eeyore
New member
Re: 2018 Four Nations Cup
For reasons I've never been able to tease out, the North American countries dominate women's team sports. It's not just hockey; in just about every sport, the U.S. women's team is better relative to the rest of the world than the men's team. The American women's soccer team may not always be way ahead of everyone else, but year in and year out, they're the best team in the world; Canada is also consistently higher ranked than the men's team. The American women's basketball team is even more dominant than the men's teams. American women's volleyball rarely loses to anyone.
It's strange, because it isn't like this in individual, rather than team, sports. And European countries have professional hockey and basketball leagues that pay more than their North American counterparts, though WNBA teams are better on the court, and I suspect that NWHL and CWHL teams would be the same. The Europeans just don't seem to have the same commitment to team sports at the youth level. I'd guess that Title IX is a significant factor, and the related aspect that sports are tied to schools here in ways that they aren't in the rest of the world.
But the evidence suggests that the disparity is more structural than just not having had enough time to develop programs.
For reasons I've never been able to tease out, the North American countries dominate women's team sports. It's not just hockey; in just about every sport, the U.S. women's team is better relative to the rest of the world than the men's team. The American women's soccer team may not always be way ahead of everyone else, but year in and year out, they're the best team in the world; Canada is also consistently higher ranked than the men's team. The American women's basketball team is even more dominant than the men's teams. American women's volleyball rarely loses to anyone.
It's strange, because it isn't like this in individual, rather than team, sports. And European countries have professional hockey and basketball leagues that pay more than their North American counterparts, though WNBA teams are better on the court, and I suspect that NWHL and CWHL teams would be the same. The Europeans just don't seem to have the same commitment to team sports at the youth level. I'd guess that Title IX is a significant factor, and the related aspect that sports are tied to schools here in ways that they aren't in the rest of the world.
But the evidence suggests that the disparity is more structural than just not having had enough time to develop programs.