2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

[hockeymakesmebroke]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

They may as well consider the whole Clarkson team the Canadian National Team, they are nearly 75% Canadian! Not a knock....just a fact.

 

[dd17]

They may as well consider the whole Clarkson team the Canadian National Team, they are nearly 75% Canadian! Not a knock....just a fact.

Try more like 90%. And 75% of Colgate.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

Try more like 90%. And 75% of Colgate.

To be fair, Clarkson is much closer to Canada than the majority of places hockey is regularly played in the US. Colgate is close to that too. If I lived in Toronto or Quebec I probably would have been happy to have my kid play at one of those because it would increase the chances we'd get to see her games.

This was different 50-60 years ago when US boys were ignored in favor of Canadian talent. Then I think it was important to have a US first mindset even if it meant not winning as often. That attitude helped convince US boys they could play after high school & increased the talent pool a lot. Girls hockey has plenty of opportunities for kids from all over the world so nation of birth is less important (IMO)

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

To be fair, Clarkson is much closer to Canada than the majority of places hockey is regularly played in the US. Colgate is close to that too. If I lived in Toronto of Quebec I probably would have been happy to have my kid play at one of those because it would increase the chances we'd get to see her games.

I think that does play significantly in their decisions.

When I covered the 2014 women's Frozen Four, and thus the Patty Kaz award when Jamie Rattray won, I interviewed her mother. Her mother told me about the whole recruiting process and decision making. It came down to two schools at the end -- Clarkson and Minnesota. Her mother told me she said to her daughter, "The decision is up to you, but remember, if you go to Clarkson, I can see all your games."

The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

I think that does play significantly in their decisions.

When I covered the 2014 women's Frozen Four, and thus the Patty Kaz award when Jamie Rattray won, I interviewed her mother. Her mother told me about the whole recruiting process and decision making. It came down to two schools at the end -- Clarkson and Minnesota. Her mother told me she said to her daughter, "The decision is up to you, but remember, if you go to Clarkson, I can see all your games."

The rest, as they say, is history.

Frost mentioned that story once. He talked about how how disappointed he was but that he understood that choice. It worked ok for MN and for Rattray.

 

[vicb]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

Frost mentioned that story once. He talked about how how disappointed he was but that he understood that choice. It worked ok for MN and for Rattray.

And it worked great for Clarkson.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

Olympic gold may be harder to come by. [your choice of emoji here]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/20/climate/canada-outdoor-rinks.html

 

[Chaffron]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

Should/will Hockey Canada consider Clarkson HC Matt Desrosiers as its National Team coach?

This will not happen. Celine dion will be head coach of team canada women before matt desrosiers or greg fargo will ever have a chance. At the meaningless-from-afar but important tournament called the "Nations Cup" in Europe this year, team canada women played horribly so much that it was the worst performance from a canadian team, maybe ever. Lost to Russia. Lost to Finland. Finished the tournament in 5th place (and i believe team germany women scored some goals against team canada women in their last game, where team canada women was playing in the last-place game. team canada women won and finished the tournament in second last place). This garbage playing was due, IMO, to the extremely inferior and head-scratching choice of a head coach who has never coached at the elite level in women's hockey, not even D3 level women's hockey, worse than that. In that tournament, mr. desrosiers was relegated to that of lowly "assistant coach" answering to some unknown, unqualified woman head coach (who plays for the CWHL's montreal team) who, as mentioned, has not demonstrated the coaching chops to coach at that level against the likes of raty, tapani, et al. To add insult to injury, and i do not mean to be rude to courtney birchard, but courtney birchard was put in last minute as an assistant coach when matt desrosiers dipped due to personal emergency. Courtney birchard = matt desrosiers is just a slap in the face to matt desrosiers and his years long toil of coaching.

a telling, and actually quite disturbing, interview from a year ago with the team canada women's GM who should really have been replaced already:
http://www.worldwomen2017.com/en/news/a-moment-with-mel/

"We’re focused now on bringing in only women coaches, no men. We had a coaching course last May and we had 32 former and current players attend. Our job is to make sure they ALL end up in coaching or taking on leadership roles. That’s the next step."

at the most recent olympics, the team canada women GM was opining how it is the goal of team canada women (basically hers) to have an all-female alumni coaching staff for the 2022 Olympics. With caroline ouellette as one of the coaches.

In summary, team canada women's program coaching recruitment process is a feminist social experiment on steroids. It is just backwards feminism. Or just plain dumb and wrong feminism. Either way, this is the thinking of the deluded team canada women's GM. Laura Schuler was a critical mistake from the outset. But all were optimistic that she would overcome the learning curve and peak at the Olympics. Turns out, every game she coached and won were the wrong games, and every game that she coached and lost were the only important ones (and there many). In all the games that she coached however, team canada women had trouble everywhere and the only games they won were due to goaltending (90%) and Fortino (10%). She never hit the ground running. We will never know if she was ever capable. She was a student learning the art of coaching and never fulfilled the potential that the team canada women's GM apparently saw from having a female alumnus of the team canada women coach the national team.

 

[shelfit]

This will not happen. Celine dion will be head coach of team canada women before matt desrosiers or greg fargo will ever have a chance. At the meaningless-from-afar but important tournament called the "Nations Cup" in Europe this year, team canada women played horribly so much that it was the worst performance from a canadian team, maybe ever. Lost to Russia. Lost to Finland. Finished the tournament in 5th place (and i believe team germany women scored some goals against team canada women in their last game, where team canada women was playing in the last-place game. team canada women won and finished the tournament in second last place). This garbage playing was due, IMO, to the extremely inferior and head-scratching choice of a head coach who has never coached at the elite level in women's hockey, not even D3 level women's hockey, worse than that. In that tournament, mr. desrosiers was relegated to that of lowly "assistant coach" answering to some unknown, unqualified woman head coach (who plays for the CWHL's montreal team) who, as mentioned, has not demonstrated the coaching chops to coach at that level against the likes of raty, tapani, et al. To add insult to injury, and i do not mean to be rude to courtney birchard, but courtney birchard was put in last minute as an assistant coach when matt desrosiers dipped due to personal emergency. Courtney birchard = matt desrosiers is just a slap in the face to matt desrosiers and his years long toil of coaching.

a telling, and actually quite disturbing, interview from a year ago with the team canada women's GM who should really have been replaced already:
http://www.worldwomen2017.com/en/news/a-moment-with-mel/



at the most recent olympics, the team canada women GM was opining how it is the goal of team canada women (basically hers) to have an all-female alumni coaching staff for the 2022 Olympics. With caroline ouellette as one of the coaches.

In summary, team canada women's program coaching recruitment process is a feminist social experiment on steroids. It is just backwards feminism. Or just plain dumb and wrong feminism. Either way, this is the thinking of the deluded team canada women's GM. Laura Schuler was a critical mistake from the outset. But all were optimistic that she would overcome the learning curve and peak at the Olympics. Turns out, every game she coached and won were the wrong games, and every game that she coached and lost were the only important ones (and there many). In all the games that she coached however, team canada women had trouble everywhere and the only games they won were due to goaltending (90%) and Fortino (10%). She never hit the ground running. We will never know if she was ever capable. She was a student learning the art of coaching and never fulfilled the potential that the team canada women's GM apparently saw from having a female alumnus of the team canada women coach the national team.

Here's some toilet paper for you...you've still got a little verbal diarrhea hanging off the corner of your mouth there.

It's a shame you never tell us how you really feel, always sitting up on that fence of political correctness. Lol. I'm not a fan of LS but didn't they take us to overtime and a shootout and an extra shooter in the shootout?! Ya, you're right, she did a terrible job of coaching. Before the Olympics everyone was saying Canada didn't have a chance in h*ll of beating the US. I think they did ok. I was on the edge if my seat most of the game, the whole overtime and the shootout. It couldn't have been any closer. Either team could have won Gold that day. But I guess you're right...she did an absolutely lousy job. Lmao at you, you idiot. Oh I forgot, Mel and Laura overlooked or cut your daughter. You're the personal gripe guy! Now it all adds up!

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

And it worked great for Clarkson.

It was nice for both teams then, MN won 2 while she was at Clarkson & she won one.

I do wish I could have watched her for 4 years though, she could play sorta well

 

[Lindsay]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

Chaffron,
In 2000/2001 NCAA had 13 female head coaches out of 25 div 1 programs. Today it is 7 (maybe 8 with Schuler back) out of 34. That’s a terrible statistic and good for Davidson for trying to get more high level female head coaches. No disrespect to any male coach. We need great coaches, male and female.

What do you propose? How should high level female head coaches be developed in Canada?

 

[ARM]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

It was nice for both teams then, MN won 2 while she was at Clarkson & she won one.

I do wish I could have watched her for 4 years though, she could play sorta well

What allows me peace with her decision is that had she come to Minnesota, or had Kendall Coyne for that matter, then it is likely that Kelly Terry (or possibly Sarah Davis) would not have. While neither of those players were Kazmaier winners, both were great fits at Minnesota, in ways that went beyond play on the ice. I'm happy enough that I got to watch them for four years, so IMO it worked out that the fans of Clarkson and Northeastern had players to watch as well.

 

[bluffrinkrat]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

What allows me peace with her decision is that had she come to Minnesota, or had Kendall Coyne for that matter, then it is likely that Kelly Terry (or possibly Sarah Davis) would not have. While neither of those players were Kazmaier winners, both were great fits at Minnesota, in ways that went beyond play on the ice. I'm happy enough that I got to watch them for four years, so IMO it worked out that the fans of Clarkson and Northeastern had players to watch as well.

They certainly proved to be an especially great fit in 2013 when they provided two of the most memorable goals in Gopher hockey history and both in overtime no less.

Along with Becky Kortum (#11 in 2011) they also provided me with a way of never forgetting my wedding anniversary of 9/10/11. A really nice added benefit for me beyond just watching their great play on the ice!

 

[ne7minder]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

What allows me peace with her decision is that had she come to Minnesota, or had Kendall Coyne for that matter, then it is likely that Kelly Terry (or possibly Sarah Davis) would not have. While neither of those players were Kazmaier winners, both were great fits at Minnesota, in ways that went beyond play on the ice. I'm happy enough that I got to watch them for four years, so IMO it worked out that the fans of Clarkson and Northeastern had players to watch as well.

I didn't know that Coyne had considered MN. I know that Terry & Davis were not the superstars that coyne and Rattray were but with the benefit of hindsight I would not make that trade. What they brought to the team is immeasurable and irreplaceable. Greg Brandt talked at length about what Terry meant to Hanna so even after they left they left a legacy in championships after their time was done.

 

[Chaffron]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

Chaffron,
In 2000/2001 NCAA had 13 female head coaches out of 25 div 1 programs. Today it is 7 (maybe 8 with Schuler back) out of 34. That’s a terrible statistic and good for Davidson for trying to get more high level female head coaches. No disrespect to any male coach. We need great coaches, male and female.

What do you propose? How should high level female head coaches be developed in Canada?

Troubling, to be sure.

i do not know what wholesale changes, if any must happen for this program to do a 360 which is desperately needed given what happened all throughout this last quadrennial, which in my opinion, was just horrible and shameful. Much worse than curling. the pipeline of female coaches entering the national program (or even the U22 program) have too many gaps in their coaching mettle in terms of producing results with longevity and consistency in their coaching career (at any level) that picking one to lead a national team at U22 or senior level is a gamble.

Like the woman head coach in regina, for example. Played D1 college hockey, gets hired by regina immediately, and is still there as head coach for 20 seasons and counting. Zero coaching experience prior to getting the head coaching job in regina. Got job by virtue of college playing career. Then gets hired by Melly to coach U18 national team. Gets trampled by heavyweight Katey Stone in final game and canada loses. Outshot, outplayed, out-everything. Never to be seen again by hockey canada. I am not saying that the regina coach's trajectory from player to her head coaching job in regina is unusual, at either CIS or D1 level, but she has never had a history of producing consistent winning results as a coach at any level. Never overcame learning curve.

i do not know, but maybe melody would be better off taking a look at the very few female coaches in AA or AAA who are producing consistent results and developing them for the next level rather than plucking some big name alumnus and elevating them even with poor record of coaching. This will take time. Which is what i think she tried to do with the most recent U22 head coach (although she got the job mainly because of her team canada alumnus status). but then it looks like the GM's ego got in the way. the head coach of U22 never coached at the U22 or even close to that level before. Elevated to head coach and relegated matt desrosiers to assistant. And lost to russia and finland. Similarly, the same thing happened with the U18 coach.

it is not shameful for a potential bound female star coach to be an assistant to a more accomplished and winning male head coach, and i do not know why team canada women's GM thinks it is.

Laura Schuler was never able to hit the ground running at all. She was perpetually learning. Without Lacasse, the weaknesses of this team canada women team would have been magnified for all to see.

i am not blaming Schuler for everything. Quite the opposite. It is not her fault (maybe though) that several players never showed up. Some of these "veterans" just never showed up. Like Jenner. Could not execute if you put a gun to her head. Likewise Wakefield and so on and so on.

Never mind the Cara Moreys and Laura Schulers. Now team canada women GM wants an all-alumni coaching staff for the Beijing Games in 2022.

 

[Lindsay]

Troubling, to be sure.

i do not know what wholesale changes, if any must happen for this program to do a 360 which is desperately needed given what happened all throughout this last quadrennial,

i do not know, but maybe melody would be better off taking a look at the very few female coaches in AA or AAA who are producing consistent results and developing them for the next level rather than plucking some big name alumnus and elevating them even with poor record of coaching. This will take time.

First off, Davidson should get called out on the no men thing. I agree with you there. At the same time, I’m fine with the Laura Schuler appointment, but your observations are valid there, not a deep head coaching resume. We don’t know (maybe you do) if Desrosiers was trying to get the head coaching job. In the US, it went to Stauber; people could argue (did argue) his resume wasn’t good enough.

The job simply doesn’t go to the person with the most loaded resume and even when it does that coach doesn’t automatically win. 2010 Olympics of MJ vs Davidson as an example.

I like the idea of developing AA and AAA coaches. I don’t know if Head Coach Matt Desrosiers would have had any more success at the Nations Cup than Noemie Marin: Canada’s U22 minus how many centralized players vs those other countries Olympic teams? I think Canada has lost that tourney before in Olympic years, or they’ve just not gone in other Olympic years. I kind of wondered if Desrosiers knew that wasn’t a winnable tourney and took a pass. Or, he may have been upset that Giguere wasn’t on the team and said no. Or, personal reasons of course.

As for future coaches for Canada, I’ve wondered if CWHL coaches will start getting looks, since they are coaching a high level of hockey, and in general the same players that will be on an Olympic roster. In the 2014 Olympics I remember Canada had a male coach, he got fired befor the Olys, then Dineen replaced him. Maybe the players have expressed a desire to be coached by people who have been immersed in women’s hockey before?

Canada is in a unique spot because they can’t reasonably expect the NCAA to develop a deep, diverse pool of Canadian coaches. Right now USports is not as high a level of play as NCAA, although who knows, Daoust might have started a trend. So Davidson is trying to navigate that, plus get more deserving women coaches opportunities and that’s great.

There’s been an underlying argument in some posts that women can’t yet coach and I want to respond to that:

The winningest coach in NCAA women’s ice hockey is a woman, the person to win the most NCAA championships is a woman, 25% of teams in the final eight for NCAA were coached by women and that exceeds the overall percentage of women coaching in NCAA. In Canada, 2nd and 3rd in USports Championships went to teams coached by women this year; the overall breakdown of coaches skews heavily male. Women can coach, they can coach now, they could coach in the late nineties and the 2000’s, its been proven. I come here for hockey talk, not feminist stuff, but the discussion went to women can’t coach so here I am, I guess.

So let’s not blame Canada’s quadrennial results on female coaches. And let’s not pretend doing nothing to actively develop female coaches will result in a deep pool of talented coaches. It doesn’t work that way for women. Bizarrely, women seem to get head coach jobs after coaching for Hockey Canada, when it really should be the other way around.

Something I really agree with you on is that Canada had a quadrennial that didn’t meet expectations. Consistent silver is not the goal. Eradicating female coaches, or male coaches for that matter, is not the answer. It will be interesting to see how Canada responds.

Final note: It will be interesting to see Schuler try to lead Dartmouth back to winning. I like that she steps up and takes on a team. Wonder what Stauber does the next four years. Is he on salary with USA hockey? Would be interesting to see him coach a college team.

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

I'd also be more impressed with the, "Just hire the best person to coach a women's hockey team, regardless of gender," argument if men's teams ever took this attitude. Other than Gregg Popovich, no one running a men's sports program takes this approach for their assistant or head coaching positions.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

I'd also be more impressed with the, "Just hire the best person to coach a women's hockey team, regardless of gender," argument if men's teams ever took this attitude. Other than Gregg Popovich, no one running a men's sports program takes this approach for their assistant or head coaching positions.

There are a couple of NFL teams hiring female assistant coaches. I know Rex Ryan did when he was with Buffalo.

 

[shelfit]

There are a couple of NFL teams hiring female assistant coaches. I know Rex Ryan did when he was with Buffalo.

That was his brother...his hair just looked like a female.

 

[Still Eeyore]

Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

There are a couple of NFL teams hiring female assistant coaches. I know Rex Ryan did when he was with Buffalo.

Jen Welters was hired as an intern by Bruce Arians in Arizona, but she was not hired as a full time assistant. Ryan hired Kathryn Smith in 2016, but she was not retained when Ryan was fired. The 49ers employ Katie Sowers as a receivers coach, and she had a good comeback to Cam Newton's, “It’s funny to hear a female talk about routes,” comment.

I kind of ignored the NFL in my comment, because I was more interested in sports where there is a more direct comparison of men's and women's teams than there is in football, where women don't have a team at either the high school or college level. I do think it is odd that a sport that doesn't is, arguably, the most progressive about employing women to coach men.

That said, Becky Harmon with the San Antonio Spurs is way ahead of any of them in terms of long term job opportunities. She's been mentioned in conjunction with the head coaching position for the Phoenix Suns. While I think that hire is extremely unlikely this year, that's the trajectory she's on.