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2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

How is the current situation any different for them? There are still two “classes” of schools today, the only difference is the names. Their tournament is generating money because the power schools located closest to MSP are making the tournament every year. Replace the thousands of fans from UND and UMD with the tens of fans from WMU and Miami State and the situation is different how? Just because there aren't any "low budget" schools in the conference doesn't mean each school is pulling their weight equally.

What’s BEST for the conference is for certain schools to never make the tournament. That message won’t play well in Oxford or Kalamazoo.
 
Bale said:
I dunno, man. If what he reports is true, the very first time that the big money schools had a big disagreement, the low-budget schools went directly against them with McLeod. And let's be honest, there is no way that was the first indication that it was going to continue.

I'm not necessarily taking everything as gospel as this is being told from the NCHC point of view, but, if that's the way things were playing out from the start, why wouldn't they think that it was going to continue? I still think that a better solution could have been worked out, but it would have taken BOTH groups of schools to give and take. Yes, I know schools like UAA felt they were already giving more than they should have had to, but the reality is that they were also receiving a lot of cash from the tournament and the league that they had very little part in generating. The whole situation sucks and I just wish that ALL of the schools have been of the mind of "doing what's right for the league" when it was still the WCHA and CCHA. The WCHA (and to a lesser extent, the CCHA) was rolling along for a long time and it seems as though many, many people got too complacent while many, many other people were trying to move in another direction.
Click to expand...

The small schools attempt at a power play are the exact reason the bigger budget schools wanted out. Similarly, in the CCHA, the smaller schools often bristled about the preferential treatment that UM, MSU & Notre Dame seemed to get. Let’s face it, those school were the revenue and TV generators.

The WCHA was set to continue with UAA, Bemidji, Mankato, St Cloud and Tech and NMU was to re-join to make it a 6 team league. But once St Cloud “decommitted,” it forced the merger of the leftovers.

Even in today’s WCHA, you’re starting to see a financial tiering emerge. Minnesota St is funding at an NCHC level, Tech, Bowling Green and Bemidji have supported their programs well and now NMU has greatly improved its’ commitment. It will be very interesting to see how things shake out over the next few years. Does Mankato decide it’s better to be one of the big dogs in the smaller pond or does it again attempt to “move up” to the NCHC, possibly as a partner to Arizona St?
 
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Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

Bale said:
I dunno, man. If what he reports is true, the very first time that the big money schools had a big disagreement, the low-budget schools went directly against them with McLeod. And let's be honest, there is no way that was the first indication that it was going to continue.

I'm not necessarily taking everything as gospel as this is being told from the NCHC point of view, but, if that's the way things were playing out from the start, why wouldn't they think that it was going to continue? I still think that a better solution could have been worked out, but it would have taken BOTH groups of schools to give and take. Yes, I know schools like UAA felt they were already giving more than they should have had to, but the reality is that they were also receiving a lot of cash from the tournament and the league that they had very little part in generating. The whole situation sucks and I just wish that ALL of the schools have been of the mind of "doing what's right for the league" when it was still the WCHA and CCHA. The WCHA (and to a lesser extent, the CCHA) was rolling along for a long time and it seems as though many, many people got too complacent while many, many other people were trying to move in another direction.
Click to expand...

Im talking about in the NCHC.
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

davyd83 said:
The small schools attempt at a power play are the exact reason the bigger budget schools wanted out. Similarly, in the CCHA, the smaller schools often bristled about the preferential treatment that UM, MSU & Notre Dame seemed to get. Let’s face it, those school were the revenue and TV generators.

The WCHA was set to continue with UAA, Bemidji, Mankato, St Cloud and Tech and NMU was to re-join to make it a 6 team league. But once St Cloud “decommitted,” it forced the merger of the leftovers.

Even in today’s WCHA, you’re starting to see a financial tiering emerge. Minnesota St is funding at an NCHC level, Tech, Bowling Green and Bemidji have supported their programs well and now NMU has greatly improved its’ commitment. It will be very interesting to see how things shake out over the next few years. Does Mankato decide it’s better to be one of the big dogs in the smaller pond or does it again attempt to “move up” to the NCHC, possibly as a partner to Arizona St?
Click to expand...

I still think we'd go to the NCHC, given the chance, but I don't think there's a desperation to do so. We really like playing the "middle 4" teams of the NCHC (Geographically, not in terms of hockey's hierarchy), but have no real interest in playing the Eastern 2 or Western 2. But in the years since the split, we've been able to play those teams both in Mankato and on the road, so the fans are pretty happy. If we can win AND play the teams are fans want to see (MN, SCSU, and UMD especially), why rock the boat?
 
davyd83 said:
The small schools attempt at a power play are the exact reason the bigger budget schools wanted out. Similarly, in the CCHA, the smaller schools often bristled about the preferential treatment that UM, MSU & Notre Dame seemed to get. Let’s face it, those school were the revenue and TV generators.

The WCHA was set to continue with UAA, Bemidji, Mankato, St Cloud and Tech and NMU was to re-join to make it a 6 team league. But once St Cloud “decommitted,” it forced the merger of the leftovers.

Even in today’s WCHA, you’re starting to see a financial tiering emerge. Minnesota St is funding at an NCHC level, Tech, Bowling Green and Bemidji have supported their programs well and now NMU has greatly improved its’ commitment. It will be very interesting to see how things shake out over the next few years. Does Mankato decide it’s better to be one of the big dogs in the smaller pond or does it again attempt to “move up” to the NCHC, possibly as a partner to Arizona St?
Click to expand...

All indications from the discussions I’ve had with people involved are that they will continue to mirror/fund the way the NCHC schools do with the hopes that they join the conference if/when the next round of realignment happens.

Mike Hastings has changed the program and how it is supported in an unbelievable way — he’s done an excellent job getting the right (big donor) people excited about Maverick Hockey. The financial support has increased and allowed a big time commitment to the program.

Basically, when the WCHA split occurred, they acknowledged they were the dog with their tail between their legs because they took for granted playing in the WCHA — President Davenport and AD Kevin Buisman want the program to be the front porch to the entire university, and have now committed to it.
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

MavHockey14 said:
All indications from the discussions I’ve had with people involved are that they will continue to mirror/fund the way the NCHC schools do with the hopes that they join the conference if/when the next round of realignment happens.

Mike Hastings has changed the program and how it is supported in an unbelievable way — he’s done an excellent job getting the right (big donor) people excited about Maverick Hockey. The financial support has increased and allowed a big time commitment to the program.

Basically, when the WCHA split occurred, they acknowledged they were the dog with their tail between their legs because they took for granted playing in the WCHA — President Davenport and AD Kevin Buisman want the program to be the front porch to the entire university, and have now committed to it.
Click to expand...
Yes and no doubt they will decide to leave in a year or two.( I hope they stay, but it's reality) But that begs the question, "what then?" Because it leaves everyone else in the WCHA in a precarious position, funding or no funding.
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

JohnsonsJerseys said:
"A lot of credit is due to Brian Faison at North Dakota. He deserves a ton of credit for putting ego aside and doing what’s right for the league."

Not hard to tell the article was written by a Whioux fan. I guess UND just forgot about doing what was best for the WCHA and that part didn't make the story. Well so far the article has more spin than a cycling class at the Y. We'll see what parts II and III bring to light.
Ryan
Click to expand...

Of course the quote you cited, without attribution to it's author, came from Ken Ralph, a UAA alum working at CC at the time of the reorganization, and now works as the AD at Maine. But keep doing what you do, JJ. :rolleyes:
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

2018-19 WCHA Non-Conference Schedule

29 NCHC Games (3-11-1)
14-15 Big10 Games (1-1-0)
8 Hockey East Games (4-0-0)
7 Atlantic Hockey Games (2-1-0)
4-5 ECAC Games (0-0-0)
4-5 Independent Games (0-2-0)
0-1 Interleague Games (Not counted in league total)
9 Exhibitions (Not counted in league or team total)
TOTAL: 10-15-1

ALABAMA-HUNTSVILLE (0-4-0)
-at Miami (2) L 1-5, L 0-4
-at Colorado College L 0-1
-at Denver L 0-6
-Arizona State (2)
-vs Vermont, TD Bank Catamount Cup, Burlington, VT
-vs Northeastern, TD Bank Catamount Cup, Burlington, VT

ALASKA (0-4-0)
-at Arizona State (2) L 0-3, L 0-5
-St. Cloud State (2) L 2-3, L 2-6
-at Denver (2)

ALASKA-ANCHORAGE (1-1-0)
-Colorado College (2) L 2-10, W 4-3
-at North Dakota (2)
-at Nebraska-Omaha (2)

BEMIDJI STATE (1-0-1)
-Lakehead (EXH) W 5-1
-North Dakota W 2-1
-at North Dakota T 1-1
-Merrimack (2)
-at St. Cloud State (2)
-at Air Force (2)

BOWLING GREEN (3-1-0)
-at Mercyhurst W 8-2
-at Western Michigan W 6-2
-at Robert Morris L 2-3
-Robert Morris W 6-0
-Western Michigan
-at Ohio State
-Ohio State
-at US Under 18 Team (EXH)
-Windsor (EXH)

FERRIS STATE (0-2-0)
-US Under 18 Team (EXH) W 3-1
-Lethbridge (EXH) W 5-2
-Western Michigan L 3-4
-at Western Michigan L 0-5
-Mercyhurst (2)
-at Michigan State
-Michigan State

LAKE SUPERIOR STATE (2-0-0)
-at Merrimack (2) W 5-4, W 1-0
-Ni****ing (EXH-2) W 3-1, W 4-0
-Michigan (2)
-at US Under 18 Team (EXH)
-vs. Michigan State, Great Lakes Invitational, Detroit, MI
-vs. Michigan Tech/Michigan, Great Lakes Invitational, Detroit, MI

MICHIGAN TECH (0-2-0)
-Minnesota-Duluth (2) L 1-2, L 2-5
-at Wisconsin (2)
-at Clarkson (2)
-vs. Michigan, Great Lakes Invitational, Detroit, MI
-vs. Lake Superior State/Michigan State, Great Lakes Invitational, Detroit, MI

MINNESOTA STATE (2-0-0)
-Mount Royal (EXH) W 7-3
-Boston University (2) W 4-3, W 5-3
-at North Dakota (2)
-at Minnesota
-Minnesota
-vs. Minnesota-Duluth, Desert Hockey Classic, Glendale, AZ
-vs. Arizona State/Clarkson, Desert Hockey Classic, Glendale, AZ

NORTHERN MICHIGAN (1-1-0)
-at Michigan State (2) L 2-4, W 4-3
-at St. Cloud State (2)
-Cornell (2)
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

SJHovey said:
Of course the quote you cited, without attribution to it's author, came from Ken Ralph, a UAA alum working at CC at the time of the reorganization, and now works as the AD at Maine.
Click to expand...
My point was, the author of the article is out to paint the NCHC, and specifically the Whiox, as saviors who did "what was right". No reason UND (or DU or CC or UMD) couldn't have stood up at the WCHA meetings and said "The sky isn't falling to lose two teams. We'll have a strong 10-team conference going forward and room to grow again. No reason for us to have a knee-jerk reaction..."

But that's exactly what they did. Not only did they allow it to happen, they lead the charge to the NCHC's creation. In summary...
The NCHC was better for who?
The NCHC was better for Whiox.
UND is all about doing what's right... as long as everyone else agrees with their opinion of how things should go and UND get their way in the end.

Ryan
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

I agree with everything you said except the knee-jerk reaction. I believe it was coming no bbn matter what. If B1G didn't take two teams out, those two would have been invited to be in the Nacho instead of WMU and SCSU

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

MTUHuskies said:
I agree with everything you said except the knee-jerk reaction. I believe it was coming no bbn matter what. If B1G didn't take two teams out, those two would have been invited to be in the Nacho instead of WMU and SCSU

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that at all. The reason the NCHC happen was the change in balance of power by losing 2 big programs. As much as UND might have wanted to stay with the WCHA because of the brand, they lost all interest when the little schools weren't willing to make leadership changes. I completely get that. The outside perception is wrong to me, I do think College hockey would have been better with the WCHA/CCHA dynamic, but I understand why the NCHC happen. The smaller schools didn't want to step up and accept that change needed to happen...I mean Shep is still in charge of refs...
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

God, it's 2018-19 and we're still talking about this.

GFM
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

gfmorris said:
God, it's 2018-19 and we're still talking about this.

GFM
Click to expand...

What is conveniently neglected is that the NCHC schools kept the money losing hockey teams with the WCHA. Last I knew, and those more intimate with the WCHA can correct me, the WCHA-W is a financial loss for all programs, and was being covered by the old WCHA-M income. Once the NCHC schools pulled their M-Hockey teams out, that left the small schools to pick up the financial tab for both WCHA-M and WCHA-W.
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

aparch said:
What is conveniently neglected is that the NCHC schools kept the money losing hockey teams with the WCHA. Last I knew, and those more intimate with the WCHA can correct me, the WCHA-W is a financial loss for all programs, and was being covered by the old WCHA-M income. Once the NCHC schools pulled their M-Hockey teams out, that left the small schools to pick up the financial tab for both WCHA-M and WCHA-W.
Click to expand...

No idea if that is true. If it is, that is BS, and the men's teams need to cut the women's league free, and let MN, WI and OSU fund the womens WCHA.
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

The WCHA currently operates in the black, and that includes both the men and women’s operations.
 
Re: 2018-19 WCHA Season: 3 Bids And The Second Round?

gfmorris said:
God, it's 2018-19 and we're still talking about this.
Click to expand...
You make it sound like this is old news. We're not looking at the past. We're discussing why the next step is going to happen. You know, the formation of the new Planet Earth Collegiate Hockey Conference with members UND, DU, ASU and Space Force Academy (formerly Air Force, but Trump paid for the new rink and practice facility on the moon) so they can shed all those small, money draining teams like UMD, SCSU, WMU, Miami, etc that can't afford travel to the moon and who they've been propping up since the NCHC was formed.
 
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