2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

[gojackets]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

By that Standard the San Francisco 49ers are a powerhouse cuz they won some super bowls in the late 80s early 90s right?

River Falls beat Elmira last year and Norwich the year before onchampionship weekend. Both of those teams are powerhouses by your standard as they have won titles...recently (past 5 years)

Adrian's beaten Elmira the past couple years.

You can sit back and say "until they win a title" but only 5 current d3 teams have ever won a title.

It's great to relive the Middlebury Glory days when the sport was young...but lately they've been decent but no powerhouse. (Enter NESCAC anger here)

 

[shelfit]

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding. Winning a game here or there against the established powerhouse teams does not make you a powerhouse team. Is Oswego suddenly considered a powerhouse now that they've beaten Plattsburgh and tied Elmira? Obviously not. Same thing for UWRF and Adrian. You have to beat the big dogs in the biggest games on the biggest stage to prove you belong in the same company as those teams. Until that happens you're still a wannabe.

 

[bearcat]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding. Winning a game here or there against the established powerhouse teams does not make you a powerhouse team. Is Oswego suddenly considered a powerhouse now that they've beaten Plattsburgh and tied Elmira? Obviously not. Same thing for UWRF and Adrian. You have to beat the big dogs in the biggest games on the biggest stage to prove you belong in the same company as those teams. Until that happens you're still a wannabe.

"powerhouse" has absolutely nothing to do with PAST success...those alumni aren't going to help you win a game this year..."Powerhouse" deals with the here and now...what kind of team are you THIS season....western powerhouse?

 

[shelfit]

"powerhouse" has absolutely nothing to do with PAST success...those alumni aren't going to help you win a game this year..."Powerhouse" deals with the here and now...what kind of team are you THIS season....western powerhouse?

"....western powerhouse?"

Lol, nice oxymoron! I believe it's also a rhetorical question.

 

[gojackets]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding. Winning a game here or there against the established powerhouse teams does not make you a powerhouse team. Is Oswego suddenly considered a powerhouse now that they've beaten Plattsburgh and tied Elmira? Obviously not. Same thing for UWRF and Adrian. You have to beat the big dogs in the biggest games on the biggest stage to prove you belong in the same company as those teams. Until that happens you're still a wannabe.

So I'm just trying to figure out this logic, so I can get this right in the future... You just said, "you have to beat the big dogs in the biggest games on the biggest stage to prove you belong"

So what is the biggest stage? I would think that the frozen four is the biggest stage...so is beating Elmira in the national semifinal not beating "the big dogs on the big stage"? Is beating Norwich at the Frozen four not beating a big dog on the big stage?

What if River Falls wins it all this year...I'm guessing I will hear..."come talk to me when you've won more than one...blah blah.

 

[shelfit]

So I'm just trying to figure out this logic, so I can get this right in the future... You just said, "you have to beat the big dogs in the biggest games on the biggest stage to prove you belong"

So what is the biggest stage? I would think that the frozen four is the biggest stage...so is beating Elmira in the national semifinal not beating "the big dogs on the big stage"? Is beating Norwich at the Frozen four not beating a big dog on the big stage?

What if River Falls wins it all this year...I'm guessing I will hear..."come talk to me when you've won more than one...blah blah.

Yes, the big stage is the NCAA tournament, which Middlebury has a long history at, for instance. Until an Adrian or a UWRF shows they can break through and finally win it all, they don't belong in the same category as the progrsms that have won it, especially those that have won it multiple times. But you don't need to worry about it because your team won't be back to the dance anytime soon....they aren't so Superior anymore.

 

[gojackets]

Yes, the big stage is the NCAA tournament, which Middlebury has a long history at, for instance. Until an Adrian or a UWRF shows they can break through and finally win it all, they don't belong in the same category as the progrsms that have won it, especially those that have won it multiple times. But you don't need to worry about it because your team won't be back to the dance anytime soon....they aren't so Superior anymore.

So now they have to win it multiple times and only the championship game counts?

Middlebury hasn't fit that category for 11 years.

And trust me. I harbor no foolish beliefs that Superior is any sort of powerhouse these days. I wish the eastern folks were as realistic about their teams.

 

[shelfit]

So now they have to win it multiple times and only the championship game counts?

Middlebury hasn't fit that category for 11 years.

And trust me. I harbor no foolish beliefs that Superior is any sort of powerhouse these days. I wish the eastern folks were as realistic about their teams.

I thought I was speaking English. It's not that hard to understand. You've got to win it once to be included in the same category as a Middlebury in the first place, something that neither Adrian nor UWRF has done yet no matter if it's been 1 year or 11 years. Those two teams simply haven't done what Middlebury has done in the NCAA tournament. Will Middlebury ever win it again? I doubt it to be bluntly honest but I still respect their achievements over time, and if you know my posts at all you know I'm not a big fan of Bill and his perpetual whining to the refs. I have a lot of respect for Joe at UWRF so I'd actually love to see him and his program win it all at least once before he chooses to retire. I'm just not sure that's ever going to happen though.

 

[spwood]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

Where the hell did I leave that picture of the dead horse being beaten?

 

[gojackets]

I thought I was speaking English. It's not that hard to understand. You've got to win it once to be included in the same category as a Middlebury in the first place, something that neither Adrian nor UWRF has done yet no matter if it's been 1 year or 11 years. Those two teams simply haven't done what Middlebury has done in the NCAA tournament. Will Middlebury ever win it again? I doubt it to be bluntly honest but I still respect their achievements over time, and if you know my posts at all you know I'm not a big fan of Bill and his perpetual whining to the refs. I have a lot of respect for Joe at UWRF so I'd actually love to see him and his program win it all at least once before he chooses to retire. I'm just not sure that's ever going to happen though.

Well if you guys would steal some of plattys recruits once in awhile it might help

 

[joecct]

So now they have to win it multiple times and only the championship game counts?

Middlebury hasn't fit that category for 11 years.

And trust me. I harbor no foolish beliefs that Superior is any sort of powerhouse these days. I wish the eastern folks were as realistic about their teams.

At the D1/D2 level, it's you Westerners that have the superior attitude. But the alma mater did burst that bubble once.

 

[shelfit]

Where the hell did I leave that picture of the dead horse being beaten?

If gostraightjackets would only return to his padded room and stop being so insistent and delusional about how the western teams belong in the same company as the eastern teams, well the dead horse might actually still be alive.

In the 15 years of NCAA D3 national championship tournaments, only 2 western teams have ever made it to the championship game itself. All the rest of the finals participants have been eastern teams. Here's the math; 15 championship games, therefore 30 teams playing in that game, an eastern team has occupied 28 of those spots, western teams the other 2 spots. The proof is in the math.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

Just because I wanted to get my spoon out and stir a little:

Since 2006-2007 we've had 5 different NCAA Champions and arguably "Powerhouses";

Plattsburgh
Elmira
Norwich
Amherst
RIT

I will even toss Middlebury in the equation for argument sake.

They've played 48 games against "Western" Teams. I will take out Bethel and Finlandia again for argument sake and your are left with the following opponents:

Adrian (12 games)
Gustavus (12 games)
UWRF (9 games)
UWSP (4 games)
St.Thomas (4 games)
1 game Each
Concordia (NCAA)
Lake Forrest
St.Norbert

The East teams above are:

37 - 8 - 1

against the West teams above.....

Only Adiran (2) and UWRF (2) have multiple wins against those teams

Adrian 2-10-0
Gust 1-10-1
UWRF 2-7-0
UWSP 1-3-0
StThom 1-3-0
UWS 1-1-0
Lake Forest 0-1-0
Concordia 0-1-0
SNC 0-1-0

Big Stage or Little Stage.....not sure it really matters.....I would be hesitant to put Amherst on this stage currently as they are just 3-3-0 vs the West in that period, but hey... .500 is still better than everyone but UWS out west....

RIT 7-0-0 1.00%
MID 6-0-0 1.00%
PSU 11-0-1 .920 %
NOR 3-1-0 .750%
ELM 7-4-0 .636%
AMH 3-3-0 .500%

I'm sorry to say....but to the teams of the West....you're still the little brother...err sister I guess in this case. Maybe this will be the year surely. I mean it only took the Cubs 108 years....

 

[gojackets]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

It's fun getting you easterners all riled up.

 

[gojackets]

Adrian 2-10-0
Gust 1-10-1
UWRF 2-7-0..

I have no argument against Gustavus. One of the many reasons I despise them is their constant choking when it matters

To be fair 7 of Adrian losses were to RIT in a time when RIT went 54-3-2 and I think only Plattsburgh on your list beat them...oh wait Norwich did too). over a two year stretch. And two others were to Plattsburgh this year, (1 in OT) where no one on your list has beaten them this year.


Most of River Falls losses came in that 4 to 5 year stretch when they weren't that good. Over the past couple years they are 2-2.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

I have no argument against Gustavus. One of the many reasons I despise them is their constant choking when it matters

Still was one of your western "powerhouses" .... if the rest of the West was so mighty, Gustavus wouldn't have been the Rep...maybe it wasn't a choke...maybe *hint hint* they just weren't as good...obviously I am wrong, because the West is far superior than the East...no pun intended...I mean a .193 winning % against the Eastern powers kind of says it all....

To be fair 7 of Adrian losses were to RIT in a time when RIT went 54-3-2 and I think only Plattsburgh on your list beat them...oh wait Norwich did too). over a two year stretch. And two others were to Plattsburgh this year, (1 in OT) where no one on your list has beaten them this year.

Um no, RIT beat Adrian 5 times during that stretch of 2 years (I'm sorry I missed another loss by a Western Powerhouse). The other two times was in 2009-2010 when RIT also lost to Amherst and Elmira. I mean what is it? 3 seasons for 7 loses or 2 seasons at 5? What makes your argument appear a little better for ya? You have a ways to go, so I'll let you pick. Heck even Oswego has more wins over RIT than Powerhouse Adrian does....Do you want to just take Adrian out? 26-6-1 ... feel better?

This just in...as of 02/08/2017 the West is UNDEFEATED against the East... make you feel better now?

Most of River Falls losses came in that 4 to 5 year stretch when they weren't that good. Over the past couple years they are 2-2.

So now you're a powerhouse because of two seasons. Interesting. So making the NCAA those "down" years....they weren't that good. Says a lot about hockey our West if that's your Rep in the tourny....

08-38-01 ...you're not even a Tween yet....

 

[MND3Dad]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

I have often wondered about the topic being debated here, and why the supposition exists that the East is defacto better than the West. I concede the point that Plattsburgh is head and shoulders better than anyone else.

But after that, I don't see it at all. If you go into whatever video archives are available it sure looks like most of the "better" teams in the east look a lot like the "better" teams in the west, most of the "middle" teams look the same, and if anything the bottom teams in the west look better than the bottom teams in the east.

Quoting results from anything more than 3 years ago seems kind of silly to me. KRACH is irrelevant because it leans too heavily on initial ratings. No way is the middle team in the NESCAC better than the top team in the MIAC. Just watch the games and you can see that. I've sampled a ton of them where they've been available, and an eastern game looks like a western game.

Of course, since this is D3 hockey and there's no real travel budget, we'll never know. Until there are more crossover games with all the teams, we'll have no other option except to argue about it. One great team on either side of the bracket tends to bias the results. I understand the pride fans take in their teams, especially those with a rich history. But history is just that. Not necessarily an indication of future results.

 

[gojackets]

Still was one of your western "powerhouses" .... if the rest of the West was so mighty, Gustavus wouldn't have been the Rep...maybe it wasn't a choke...maybe *hint hint* they just weren't as good...obviously I am wrong, because the West is far superior than the East...no pun intended...I mean a .193 winning % against the Eastern powers kind of says it all....



Um no, RIT beat Adrian 5 times during that stretch of 2 years (I'm sorry I missed another loss by a Western Powerhouse). The other two times was in 2009-2010 when RIT also lost to Amherst and Elmira. I mean what is it? 3 seasons for 7 loses or 2 seasons at 5? What makes your argument appear a little better for ya? You have a ways to go, so I'll let you pick. Heck even Oswego has more wins over RIT than Powerhouse Adrian does....Do you want to just take Adrian out? 26-6-1 ... feel better?

Calm down honey. I never actually stated that any teams were powerhouses. You guys have assumed that I felt that River Falls is a power house. I've definitely never given any credence to the idea that I think Gustavus is a powerhouse. I'm just presenting some alternative facts.

And by your own admission up above...that oswego team is definitely a powerhouse as they have beaten Plattsburgh, which none of your other precious "eastern powerhouses" have been able to do in 739 days.

I just find it Hilarious that you say...if River Falls wants to be considered good, then they should have beaten Plattsburgh last year...except no one else beat Plattsburgh last year...(except that might Utica powerhouse). Or Adrian should have beat Elmira (which they did do) when the only other team to beat Elmira last year was Plattsburgh...and that sneaky Utica.

Hell Utica has more impressive wins over the past two years than all your powerhouses...

 

[gojackets]

I have often wondered about the topic being debated here, and why the supposition exists that the East is defacto better than the West. I concede the point that Plattsburgh is head and shoulders better than anyone else.

But after that, I don't see it at all. If you go into whatever video archives are available it sure looks like most of the "better" teams in the east look a lot like the "better" teams in the west, most of the "middle" teams look the same, and if anything the bottom teams in the west look better than the bottom teams in the east.

Quoting results from anything more than 3 years ago seems kind of silly to me. KRACH is irrelevant because it leans too heavily on initial ratings. No way is the middle team in the NESCAC better than the top team in the MIAC. Just watch the games and you can see that. I've sampled a ton of them where they've been available, and an eastern game looks like a western game.

Of course, since this is D3 hockey and there's no real travel budget, we'll never know. Until there are more crossover games with all the teams, we'll have no other option except to argue about it. One great team on either side of the bracket tends to bias the results. I understand the pride fans take in their teams, especially those with a rich history. But history is just that. Not necessarily an indication of future results.

Well the frozen four is always 3 eastern teams and1 western, and if the western team loses to an undefeated eastern team then the entire west sucks. It's pretty basic east coast logic.

And remember folks I didn't start this discussion. Shelfit ddid. I just responded to his/her's nonsense.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: 2017 Women's D-III NCAA Selection Thread

8 - 38 - 1

Maybe you can hit double digits by 2020...