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2015 WCHA Offseason

Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

I don't know how many people took the time to watch the PC presser but Leaman was asked about getting into the tournament and he said it was harder to get in now, since, and he frowned, and then said as politically correctly as he could. " There's a lot more non traditional teams getting in now"
Providence and Union are traditional teams?
 
For sure...

Can't deny the fact that they put W's in the win column, but it sure must be nice to play a weaker NC schedule, play that weaker NC schedule on home ice, and then declare yourself the superior conference because you now control PWR and put 6 teams in the NCAA.

And win 5 of 6 first round games then place 2 in the Frozen Four.

My god, what an overrated conference.

Win consistently and you'll get a more favorable NC schedule (with more home games). Doesn't happen overnight.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

And win 5 of 6 first round games then place 2 in the Frozen Four.

My god, what an overrated conference.

Win consistently and you'll get a more favorable NC schedule (with more home games). Doesn't happen overnight.
Thanks for the information. I'm sure none of us in the WCHA had any idea about that. Nice of you to inform us.
 
Thanks for the information. I'm sure none of us in the WCHA had any idea about that. Nice of you to inform us.

Yet there is post after post complaining about how you get the shaft in NC scheduling and how the NCHC had a weaker NC schedule.

Try having more than one winning season in a row. Mankato and Ferris excluded from that comment as both have established that.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Yet there is post after post complaining about how you get the shaft in NC scheduling and how the NCHC had a weaker NC schedule.

Try having more than one winning season in a row. Mankato and Ferris excluded from that comment as both have established that.

**** OFF, that is all...

Go back to your thread and stop being an arrogant *******. What has SCSU done that is so spectacular that deserves any special recognition by those here?
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

**** OFF, that is all...

Go back to your thread and stop being an arrogant *******. What has SCSU done that is so spectacular that deserves any special recognition by those here?

Just replying to the posts that try to paint the conference in a negative light, that somehow, the WCHA is just as good and isn't getting a fair shake. Keep trying to say the PWR gives too much too credit to the success of the NCHC. All were right there in KRACH as well. In the two years of existence, extremely solid NC records without playing a ton of games against the AHA and their record against the WCHA was pretty stellar.

Top 3-4 teams this year in the WCHA, for sure were good. I think they would have done well if they were in the NCHC as well. Will be interesting to see if those schools all continue that.

I still pull for the WCHA because of the history, particularly Mankato and Bemidji as local state schools. Would have been fine had SCSU stayed in the WCHA and would have understood the place of the NCHC and respected their results and not searched high and low to discredit them.

Not about SCSU and I'd also say not as much as I'd like, but since you asked:

196-162-40 in the past 10 years
8 Winning Seasons (5 with 20+ wins)
2 Conference Championships
6 NCAA Appearances
3 Regional Finals and 1 Frozen Four
1 Hobey Baker Award Winner

Again, not about SCSU in this discussion but the overall discounting of the NCHC. Get over it. The conference is good. Really good.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Just replying to the posts that try to paint the conference in a negative light, that somehow, the WCHA is just as good and isn't getting a fair shake. Keep trying to say the PWR gives too much too credit to the success of the NCHC. All were right there in KRACH as well. In the two years of existence, extremely solid NC records without playing a ton of games against the AHA and their record against the WCHA was pretty stellar.

Top 3-4 teams this year in the WCHA, for sure were good. I think they would have done well if they were in the NCHC as well. Will be interesting to see if those schools all continue that.

I still pull for the WCHA because of the history, particularly Mankato and Bemidji as local state schools. Would have been fine had SCSU stayed in the WCHA and would have understood the place of the NCHC and respected their results and not searched high and low to discredit them.

Not about SCSU and I'd also say not as much as I'd like, but since you asked:

196-162-40 in the past 10 years
8 Winning Seasons (5 with 20+ wins)
2 Conference Championships
6 NCAA Appearances
3 Regional Finals and 1 Frozen Four
1 Hobey Baker Award Winner

Again, not about SCSU in this discussion but the overall discounting of the NCHC. Get over it. The conference is good. Really good.

I just hope that if your conference has a bad year in NC play, and your league struggles to get 4 teams in next time you'll question the emphasis placed on such few games, especially when location, timing and other success is so important in determining things. I can change the results of 3 games and the final pairwise would have been MSU 1, MTU 2, BGSU 8. If those 3 games change, UNO is out of the tournament and SCSU is last team in...thats the razor thin edge that is the PWR. That's all I'm trying to get at. Being able to win games in a single elimination tournament is great, and NCHC has done a great job of that, but that doesn't change my mind that the current PWR over emphasizes a very small group of games and just compounds that issue by making that overemphasis the tiebreaking comparison. Yes KRACH is better than PWR but KRACH also appears to have a similar problem, not that it's NCHC's fault they get more home games or that they did well in NC play, just a fact.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

I just hope that if your conference has a bad year in NC play, and your league struggles to get 4 teams in next time you'll question the emphasis placed on such few games, especially when location, timing and other success is so important in determining things. I can change the results of 3 games and the final pairwise would have been MSU 1, MTU 2, BGSU 8. If those 3 games change, UNO is out of the tournament and SCSU is last team in...thats the razor thin edge that is the PWR. That's all I'm trying to get at. Being able to win games in a single elimination tournament is great, and NCHC has done a great job of that, but that doesn't change my mind that the current PWR over emphasizes a very small group of games and just compounds that issue by making that overemphasis the tiebreaking comparison. Yes KRACH is better than PWR but KRACH also appears to have a similar problem, not that it's NCHC's fault they get more home games or that they did well in NC play, just a fact.

Well, the problem is a finite number of games, insular conference scheduling, and a too-small ratio of # of games : # of teams. Any comparison measurement is going to be flawed by the limited amount of crossover —*at the same time, the smaller programs need the insular schedules to be viable. The only way out is to limit the number of conference games and bracket the number of home games per team. I expect that'll be happening about the time that they decide to stick my fat butt in a spacesuit and ask me to see what it's like on the other end of the comm loop, buddy!!!

GFM
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Well, the problem is a finite number of games, insular conference scheduling, and a too-small ratio of # of games : # of teams. Any comparison measurement is going to be flawed by the limited amount of crossover —*at the same time, the smaller programs need the insular schedules to be viable. The only way out is to limit the number of conference games and bracket the number of home games per team. I expect that'll be happening about the time that they decide to stick my fat butt in a spacesuit and ask me to see what it's like on the other end of the comm loop, buddy!!!

GFM
There is no denying that. It isn't any easy problem to solve.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Well the whole thing is down to chest thumping on the part of the NCHC. Woo HOO we are good!. Plleeease, spare me. My opinion, is that after a few more 500 seasons, St cloud won't be quite so good, that cc has had their last winning season for a long time, that every team has their turn doing poorly and their turn winning, and that bragging on how good you are is a dumb thing to be doing because it's going to be your turn next.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

I just hope that if your conference has a bad year in NC play, and your league struggles to get 4 teams in next time you'll question the emphasis placed on such few games, especially when location, timing and other success is so important in determining things. I can change the results of 3 games and the final pairwise would have been MSU 1, MTU 2, BGSU 8. If those 3 games change, UNO is out of the tournament and SCSU is last team in...thats the razor thin edge that is the PWR. That's all I'm trying to get at. Being able to win games in a single elimination tournament is great, and NCHC has done a great job of that, but that doesn't change my mind that the current PWR over emphasizes a very small group of games and just compounds that issue by making that overemphasis the tiebreaking comparison. Yes KRACH is better than PWR but KRACH also appears to have a similar problem, not that it's NCHC's fault they get more home games or that they did well in NC play, just a fact.

Now this is turning into a good discussion. I agree, it gets pretty razor thin based on a small sample of games. I'd love to see a couple fewer conference games that would allow more OOC play with more ability to do offsetting series with more teams and get a more fair read on comparisons.

Until they change the system, all you can hope for is the rest of your conference to schedule quality opponents and have them do well against them. Had SCSU not gotten in this year, I wouldn't have had anything to complain about. Too many splits to really differentiate themselves and get away from the danger line of getting in. They played some great competition and pretty much split against them all. Same goes for their conference schedule.

And that would go for next year as well. If only 3 or 4 teams get in and it is because of poor OOC showings, then it is what it is.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Well the whole thing is down to chest thumping on the part of the NCHC. Woo HOO we are good!. Plleeease, spare me. My opinion, is that after a few more 500 seasons, St cloud won't be quite so good, that cc has had their last winning season for a long time, that every team has their turn doing poorly and their turn winning, and that bragging on how good you are is a dumb thing to be doing because it's going to be your turn next.

Not chest thumping, just pointing out the trend. Agree, IF St. Cloud has a few more .500 seasons then they'll have issues. Always possible to drop a clunker in there but they seem to have stabilized their recruiting and performance as a result. I'm not expecting to go into a big slide but you never know. Happy to see Mankato back on the schedule next year and think we're playing the Alaska schools as well. Also happy to have 4 games with CC next year and only 2 with UND.

I can definitely see teams within the conference having a bad year or two, I just don't expect that to happen to all of the top 5-6 each year. Probably see one or two drop down but that would still leave four up.

There may even be some positive things to come out of the disaster that is the B1G. Could sway some kids away from heading to those schools and more into the NCHC and WCHA. Not the very top guys, but that next level under that. Takes away the depth that a Minnesota or Wisconsin used to have in addition to the top players. Who knows.
 
Now this is turning into a good discussion. I agree, it gets pretty razor thin based on a small sample of games. I'd love to see a couple fewer conference games that would allow more OOC play with more ability to do offsetting series with more teams and get a more fair read on comparisons.

Until they change the system, all you can hope for is the rest of your conference to schedule quality opponents and have them do well against them. Had SCSU not gotten in this year, I wouldn't have had anything to complain about. Too many splits to really differentiate themselves and get away from the danger line of getting in. They played some great competition and pretty much split against them all. Same goes for their conference schedule.

And that would go for next year as well. If only 3 or 4 teams get in and it is because of poor OOC showings, then it is what it is.

I'll freely admit the NCHC is deeper top to bottom than the WCHA. However, the top WCHA teams can play with the top NCHC teams. Mankato may well be playing today if not for a belly flop/very questionable call in the first round.

Bowling Green was a tourney team all year until they decided to mail in a Saturday game against Anchorage that probably cost them their berth. UAF and Bemidji were hovering in the 20's in the PWR, and I think UAF would have been playing for a spot were it not for the NCAA ban and resulting midseason lull that knocked us out of the top 15. But, woulda coulda shoulda.

As you and others have said, the margin for error in the PWR is razor thin...bottom line is you have to take advantages of opportunities when they are given.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Now this is turning into a good discussion. I agree, it gets pretty razor thin based on a small sample of games. I'd love to see a couple fewer conference games that would allow more OOC play with more ability to do offsetting series with more teams and get a more fair read on comparisons.

Until they change the system, all you can hope for is the rest of your conference to schedule quality opponents and have them do well against them. Had SCSU not gotten in this year, I wouldn't have had anything to complain about. Too many splits to really differentiate themselves and get away from the danger line of getting in. They played some great competition and pretty much split against them all. Same goes for their conference schedule.

And that would go for next year as well. If only 3 or 4 teams get in and it is because of poor OOC showings, then it is what it is.

But the problem is pretty simple: money.

An AHC* team generally can't afford to bring in a name school without some kind of tie. Most of the smaller schools are operating on small budgets and can't drop $30k to bring in a mid-tier team from a better conference — mainly because they don't have the money and won't get the money from a vastly-increased home attendance.

UAH has the same problem. We had SCSU in a couple of years ago because of a (very cool) promise that Motzko made to Nic Dowd to let him play at home his senior year. A couple of years before that, UAH would've had DU in here (12-13) if the program hadn't been sorta-cut the year before and DU scrambled to fill the date. In fact, the only "name" school to come in that year was Mankato. We have had a couple of ECAC schools, and Merrimack came a few years ago, but most schools are only interested in playing us if we're playing in Nashville, which we've stopped doing. Travel isn't easy, so $20k from Robert Morris looks better than $20k from Alabama-Huntsville, what given relative locations and the quality of the airports. The best thing to happen to UAH would be for me to win the lottery, which I'd use to build a stadium and reserve a charter plane for all travel: our opponents and our trips. Oh well.

Because none of the WCHA schools are from terribly big metro areas (Huntsville is biggest, unless the BG guys want to point to Toledo, which, okay), the travel is a problem no matter the school when considered from an OOC perspective. And then there's the obvious east-west thing.

So the WCHA has to just do what it can. Everyone tries to get a big date or two. Lots of us go on the road, the UA* schools more than most. We root for Bemidji and Mankato in the North Star Cup, for Tech to beat UMD (and for them to both be good), and for Sparty and Meechigan to maybe schedule our four Great Lakes schools.

So it's not just as simple as "schedule quality opponents" right now.

GFM
 
So the WCHA has to just do what it can. Everyone tries to get a big date or two. Lots of us go on the road, the UA* schools more than most. We root for Bemidji and Mankato in the North Star Cup, for Tech to beat UMD (and for them to both be good), and for Sparty and Meechigan to maybe schedule our four Great Lakes schools.

So it's not just as simple as "schedule quality opponents" right now.

GFM

The Kendall and Brice tournaments have been fantastic for UAF and UAA in terms of travel. It basically lets spend most of October at "home" before racking up the serious miles November-February. And we have had good luck at getting "name" teams to come up. Wisconsin and Penn State came up this past year, we've had North Dakota and DU in Fairbanks within the last two or three years, Quinnipiac went to Anchorage not far removed from their Frozen Four run, and Arizona State is slated to be in Anchorage this fall.

Used to be that UAF-UAA would always round out their non-con schedule against each other but that isn't the case now. Two years ago we flew Mercyhurst up to round out the non conference schedule, and last year we went to WMU, a year after they came up for the Brice. I have a feeling in the future our non-conference home-and-home deals will have a team coming up for the Brice followed by the Nooks going to their barn the next year. As such, I wouldn't be surprised to see a trip to Happy Valley forthcoming, particularly with the Gadowsky connection. UAA did the same thing with Maine this past season, except they played in Orono a couple of weeks after playing them in Anchorage.

I keep waiting for Minnesota to come up with Lucia's historic connection to UAF (he helped get our program off the ground in the modern era), but I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a while.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

I'll freely admit the NCHC is deeper top to bottom than the WCHA. However, the top WCHA teams can play with the top NCHC teams. Mankato may well be playing today if not for a belly flop/very questionable call in the first round.

Bowling Green was a tourney team all year until they decided to mail in a Saturday game against Anchorage that probably cost them their berth. UAF and Bemidji were hovering in the 20's in the PWR, and I think UAF would have been playing for a spot were it not for the NCAA ban and resulting midseason lull that knocked us out of the top 15. But, woulda coulda shoulda.

As you and others have said, the margin for error in the PWR is razor thin...bottom line is you have to take advantages of opportunities when they are given.

Again, all good points. It's tough that a lot of teams' seasons hinge on a single game that you wouldn't even think could matter at the time.

Said it before and I'll say it again, the top WCHA teams could definitely compete and do well in the NCHC. And think about it, 8 oWCHA teams in the tourney this year. Couldn't have happened without realignment. Imagine that conference this year. Wow.

GF, absolutely correct on the money comment. Tougher being a small school trying to establish a program because of it.

Also, believe I saw the NCHC has changed their name due to last night's results. Now the CWTBO. Can't win the big one.

Lastly, how are things looking in the WCHA for next year? Are we going to see the same teams at the top battling for the title? Who might come from the middle to lower ranks and move up? Who might slide down?
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Lastly, how are things looking in the WCHA for next year? Are we going to see the same teams at the top battling for the title? Who might come from the middle to lower ranks and move up? Who might slide down?

Ridiculously early predictions -
1. BGSU - Fear the Falcons - Bowling Green should be really good next year, like perhaps top 5 or 10 all year.
2. Tech - No Kero or Pietila, but there's a whole lot coming back
3. Beaver Fever (They treat that with penicillin, don't they?). Bitzer, some good young forwards, and Bitzer.
4. Kato - Hope I'm wrong, but if Hastings finishes 3rd or better, we should just give him a blank check. Lost our top scoring forward, our top d-man, and our goalie. Still, Blueger, McClure, Gervais, and Franklin are as good as any forwards in the conference.
5. Alaska - Some significant losses, but they still should be a decent team.
6. NMU - Not that impressed with the forwards, but some good d-men and a very good goalie return.
7. Ferris - Gotta find some goal scorers, and a goaltender. If Daniels weren't the coach, I'd pick them even lower.
8. UAA - Not sure what to make of last year. And thus, not sure what to make of next year.
9. UAH - I'm probably underestimating them. They'll improve again next year, but not sure that means more than 20-24 points in the conference.
10. LSSU - I think Whitten has a chance to turn this thing around eventually, but he didn't inherit much, and his leading scorer from last year graduated.
 
Re: 2015 WCHA Offseason

Lastly, how are things looking in the WCHA for next year? Are we going to see the same teams at the top battling for the title? Who might come from the middle to lower ranks and move up? Who might slide down?

That's a good question. I think that we'd all like to think that our team will be better. Here's my take after a few minutes of thinking about it:

Minnesota State (21-4-3 WCHA, 98-47 GF-GA WCHA): Losing Williams hurts, but Huggins was up to the task last year. The Mavs lose their leading scorer in Leitner, #2 defense scorer in Palmquist, and JP Lafontaine, who didn't light the lamp much his senior year but was definitely someone to keep your eye on defensively. Grant, Gaede, and Stern are losses, but not anything that can't be overcome with Hastings's pipeline.

Michigan Tech (21-5-2, 103-48): They lose a lot of talent to graduation: Kero, Pietila, D. Johnstone, Hietala, and Sweeney. It looks like Jamie Phillips will stay in Houghton, but if he goes pro, man, that really hurts. I know that Tech has a lot of talent coming in, but that's a lot to lose. I don't really see how they can match this year, but 18-20 league wins seems reasonable.

Bowling Green (17-8-3, 87-66):
2009-10: 5-25-6
2010-11: 10-27-4 (under new coach Chris Bergeron)
2011-12: 14-25-5
2012-13: 15-21-5
2013-14: 18-15-6
2014-15: 23-11-5

Bergeron knows what he's doing. BG's last year above .500 before last year was 1996-97. They lose a little bit — Berkle, DeSalvo, and Kucera stick out in my mind — but they still have the three-headed goalie monster and six of their eight 20+ point scorers, and the three 25+ guys are all underclassmen (including freshman Hawkins, the leading scorer at 16-14—30). I think that they have to rise again next year.

Alaska (14-12-2, 75-69): Losing Parayko was inevitable, but it really has to hurt. Jones looked to be up to being the #1 goalie until he got hurt. Perry and Campbell are losses, but they have the Morley brothers and Basara. The question will be whether the loss of Parayko is too much to the Nanooks' blue line. I think they'll tread water.

Bemidji State (12-11-5, 73-62): Losing their defensemen really, really hurts: Prap could score (and should at the next level), and Rendle and Windle could lock it down. Bitter was fantastic this year, and there's scoring in the underclassmen (Harms, Arentz, GFitz). I worry too much about losing 50% of their D corps to think that they'll improve.

Ferris State (13-14-1, 66-58): Loses Motte. Loses one of their three 20-point scorers. In the words of M. Ward, "I believe you're headed for a fall."

Northern Michigan (11-13-4, 59-71): They lose Seckel and Jones plus two senior D. The question is this: will Dahlström be healthy for his senior season? Their key contributors (less Seckel) return, but the only one to make more than modest gains was Nowick. They look a lot like Ferris State did this year when it comes to the box score. I think that they'll stay in the middle of the pack.

Alabama-Huntsville (7-20-1, 44-95): CARMINE GUERRIERO. Oh, and the seniors we lose are great guys and their mothers love them but they're not top WCHA talent and they know it. If the Chargers keep the work ethic that has been their calling card in this bare-cupboard seasons, they should be okay. There is room to move up, perhaps as high as #4 if Saulnier figures it out and some of the incoming players can score.

Lake Superior (7-20-1, 44-91): I come not to bury Damon Whitten, but to praise him. [Sorry, Perky, it was right there.] The Lakers lose their only double-digit goal scorer in Perfetto — 18% of their scoring! Alex Globke was a non-factor in his sophomore year (5-5—10 after 12-19—31), one in which he admitted that he wasn't conditioned enough to play in Whitten's system. That said, the Lakers only scored two fewer goals than UAH in the same number of games. It feels like they're a year behind UAH in all sorts of ways: year that the coaching staff changes, freshmen goalies making their move, etc. The Lakers didn't fall as far as UAH did, but their cupboard was pretty bare.

Alaska-Anchorage (5-21-2, 52-94): Umm, idk? Cameron, Allen, Coldwell, and Docken depart, but I think that a couple Seawolves fans are ready to help them pack. The Mantha kid looks nice in net. Does anyone know what's happening up there?

I don't follow recruiting very well (even for UAH), so I don't know if incoming talent has an effect. But I'd expect the following:

· Mankato and Tech to fall off
· BG to make that a three-team race
· A muddled middle that will be powered by which goalie is lights-out
· Teams that can't score at the bottom.

GFM
 
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