2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

[Titleist]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

No offense, but if the nbc broadcasters left 30 seconds of blank time, they would be fired that very day. it might be an american thing, it might not, but that's the way it is. I really have no complaints about the broadcast other than phil saying things that are untrue and then correcting himself. Bob roll is not dumb, but when you have what, 5 other guys all wanting to speak, he doesn't get much chance.

None taken, but you've misunderstood. Kelly is the "color" commentator. They pair him with Kirby or someone like that and let Kirby blather on inanely. While Kelly says nothing until the action requires it or Kirby makes such an egregious mistake he has to say something.

I'm a bit fortunate in the fact that I'm a teacher so I can watch Eurosport online during the summers, but most races happen on weekends so I can watch it live on Eurosport.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Sky released Chris Froome's power data this morning. Cadence numbers around 100 on that climb earlier in the week. No wonder his power numbers are so high. 5.78 watts/kilo.

 

[Titleist]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Sky released Chris Froome's power data this morning. Cadence numbers around 100 on that climb earlier in the week. No wonder his power numbers are so high. 5.78 watts/kilo.

And while I'm certainly no scientist nor a physiologist, nor a doctor, I don't believe that either. Gesink posted his data after the climb via Strava and he came out at like 5.76 and he lost 1:30ish to Froome. Additionally Pinot has been good about posting his data on most climbs (though I haven't seen much this year). Last year his was over 6 on some climbs. Are we to believe that last year Pinot put out over 6 and this year the entire peloton is under 6? Not only that, he is at 5.78 and destroying the peloton. Nope.

 

[sagard]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

And while I'm certainly no scientist nor a physiologist, nor a doctor, I don't believe that either. Gesink posted his data after the climb via Strava and he came out at like 5.76 and he lost 1:30ish to Froome. Additionally Pinot has been good about posting his data on most climbs (though I haven't seen much this year). Last year his was over 6 on some climbs. Are we to believe that last year Pinot put out over 6 and this year the entire peloton is under 6? Not only that, he is at 5.78 and destroying the peloton. Nope.

Sky knocked off some significant portion due to his O-Ring. Trying to make the implication that his gear is better. That said Froome is certainly more believable that Thomas. Just like Lance, Froome has no competitive advantage over his peers. If he wins, he is worthy.

 

[Titleist]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Sky knocked off some significant portion due to his O-Ring. Trying to make the implication that his gear is better. That said Froome is certainly more believable that Thomas. Just like Lance, Froome has no competitive advantage over his peers. If he wins, he is worthy.

But the thing is/was that Lance DID have competative advantage. He/His team/Bruyneel was actively bribing the UCI testers. And in '99 with the exception of Lance most teams were not prepared due to the Festina scandal.

And just accepting that everyone is doped doesn't mean it is equal. Frankly I'd completely believe that there is a team-wide (or even just a Brit-wide) program at SKY were as although I'm sure that 'Berto is fully geared and Sagan, I doubt Mick Rogers has the same level of prep as Porte and Majka doesn't have the same level as Thomas.

 

[XYZ]

Sky knocked off some significant portion due to his O-Ring. Trying to make the implication that his gear is better. That said Froome is certainly more believable that Thomas. Just like Lance, Froome has no competitive advantage over his peers. If he wins, he is worthy.

Define "competitive advantage."

The numbers Sky put out are horse****. They lied about his weight and, per all reasonable published data, completely overestimated the o-ring correction to buckle that power data down as low as possible. Problem for Sky in this regard is that Gesink had already published his data for the stage and it was nuts on the VAM estimates people had made and so forth. What does all this mean? Overall I'm not sure, but it sure does make Sky's supposed commitment to transparency a laugh and a half. The data was doctored beyond belief. No wonder there's an ongoing saga over his VO2 max. They let that slip out and it's the nail on the coffin as his performances are thus proven unattainable via natural means.

Should have heard supposed training genius of a notoriously doped Australian swim team turned Sky guru Tim Kerrison stumbling over his words earlier. Sounded like a complete fool about this stuff.

About the only people left buying this nonsense are those who think it's because everyone hates England, despite the fact Froome is about as English as Paul Revere. Sorry, that nationalistic bs was tried once before with Wonderstrong and it was bs then, and it's bs now.

 

[XYZ]

Igf-1 lr3

 

[Titleist]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Define "competitive advantage."

The numbers Sky put out are horse****. They lied about his weight and, per all reasonable published data, completely overestimated the o-ring correction to buckle that power data down as low as possible. Problem for Sky in this regard is that Gesink had already published his data for the stage and it was nuts on the VAM estimates people had made and so forth. What does all this mean? Overall I'm not sure, but it sure does make Sky's supposed commitment to transparency a laugh and a half. The data was doctored beyond belief. No wonder there's an ongoing saga over his VO2 max. They let that slip out and it's the nail on the coffin as his performances are thus proven unattainable via natural means.

Should have heard supposed training genius of a notoriously doped Australian swim team turned Sky guru Tim Kerrison stumbling over his words earlier. Sounded like a complete fool about this stuff.

About the only people left buying this nonsense are those who think it's because everyone hates England, despite the fact Froome is about as English as Paul Revere. Sorry, that nationalistic bs was tried once before with Wonderstrong and it was bs then, and it's bs now.

Two things: 1) Crap forgot to mention a swimming coach!
2) (US History teacher comes out) Revere was English. Or at a minimum British.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

I would agree on a few points, but not all. The non round ring needs to have a scientifically based normalization done, certainly. But I don't think anyone has a good calculation done as of yet, so I question all of the so called experts in that regard. There's so much politics that I suspect everyone.
The power data then needs to be uploaded directly to the governing bodies. I think the power data as presented is plausible for Froome, but as you say, it might not be accurate. and it's also questionable that certain people are throwing stones without having good ammunition.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Here's my thing, is it possible to be stretching the limits of power while being clean? Sometimes you just have great genes. Look at secretariat, he had a massive heart that can be traced back multiple generations. Maybe Froome is doing it clean.

I have no idea since I don't follow information like that too closely.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

But the thing is/was that Lance DID have competative advantage. He/His team/Bruyneel was actively bribing the UCI testers. And in '99 with the exception of Lance most teams were not prepared due to the Festina scandal.

And just accepting that everyone is doped doesn't mean it is equal. Frankly I'd completely believe that there is a team-wide (or even just a Brit-wide) program at SKY were as although I'm sure that 'Berto is fully geared and Sagan, I doubt Mick Rogers has the same level of prep as Porte and Majka doesn't have the same level as Thomas.

You think Sagan is doping?

 

[Titleist]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

You think Sagan is doping?

I think virtually everyone is. When you watch how Sagan rides it reinforces that belief. Watch him on the Pave stage. He'd circle around the group, close a huge gap for Contador, then contest the finish, all while everyone else was on the rivet.

As for physical freaks, absolutely, but they thing with Froome is that that wasn't his career path. Look at his career with Barloworld. He was a bad, non-climbing domestique. One of the biggest questions about Froome is that almost none of his career data prior to 2011 has ever been released. One of the things that could prove his freakish abilities is to put out his VO2 Max data, and he won't.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

I think virtually everyone is. When you watch how Sagan rides it reinforces that belief. Watch him on the Pave stage. He'd circle around the group, close a huge gap for Contador, then contest the finish, all while everyone else was on the rivet.

As for physical freaks, absolutely, but they thing with Froome is that that wasn't his career path. Look at his career with Barloworld. He was a bad, non-climbing domestique. One of the biggest questions about Froome is that almost none of his career data prior to 2011 has ever been released. One of the things that could prove his freakish abilities is to put out his VO2 Max data, and he won't.

He should. And I agree, Sagan is in the break 4 days in a row? How does anybody do that.And Barguil, I wish he would get his act together, he keeps causing problems.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Van garderen abandons due to illness.

Crappy...had a good Tour for 16 days. As XYZ warned me, Tejay continues to always have "one bad day" in the Tour that wrecks his podium chances and not only was this a bad day, it was an abandon.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

****ing ****...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

I think virtually everyone is. When you watch how Sagan rides it reinforces that belief. Watch him on the Pave stage. He'd circle around the group, close a huge gap for Contador, then contest the finish, all while everyone else was on the rivet.

As for physical freaks, absolutely, but they thing with Froome is that that wasn't his career path. Look at his career with Barloworld. He was a bad, non-climbing domestique. One of the biggest questions about Froome is that almost none of his career data prior to 2011 has ever been released. One of the things that could prove his freakish abilities is to put out his VO2 Max data, and he won't.

Fair enough. I do think that Sagan has a fairly different background though. Between his other two cycling backgrounds, I think he might be one of the best (if not the best) bike handler on the tour**. He's not quite good enough to win sprints consistently but he's also not quite good enough to make it up the big mountains. If anything I wonder if he wasn't clean early on but joining a team like TS may have pressured him into doping. I'm thinking Tinkoff would do anything to win. He seems far too cutthroat to sit back and win when wins and take the losses as they come.

All of which isn't to say I have reason to think he isn't doping. I am just a naive optimist.

**Speaking entirely from a position of ignorance

 

[XYZ]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Two things: 1) Crap forgot to mention a swimming coach!
2) (US History teacher comes out) Revere was English. Or at a minimum British.

Ha, re Revere, I know but that was the point. The English/British celebrating that fact as if he were a national hero would obviously make no sense.

Van garderen abandons due to illness.

Crappy...had a good Tour for 16 days. As XYZ warned me, Tejay continues to always have "one bad day" in the Tour that wrecks his podium chances and not only was this a bad day, it was an abandon.

True, but today was a bit different. He didn't lose the leading group due to blowing up, but rather it seems he had an unmanageable headache/illness. That was probably mentioned on NBCSN but it makes it tougher to see as it looks to be a ridiculous stroke of bad luck.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

Ha, re Revere, I know but that was the point. The English/British celebrating that fact as if he were a national hero would obviously make no sense.




True, but today was a bit different. He didn't lose the leading group due to blowing up, but rather it seems he had an unmanageable headache/illness. That was probably mentioned on NBCSN but it makes it tougher to see as it looks to be a ridiculous stroke of bad luck.

If he had a migraine, I can't imagine riding 180km in the sweltering heat trying to keep pace with those guys. I hate moving an inch when I have just a regular headache, make it a migraine and doing all that? No thanks. I can sympathize with him. Really stinks as it seemed like he was on great form for the Tour this year.

 

[Titleist]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

If he had a migraine, I can't imagine riding 180km in the sweltering heat trying to keep pace with those guys. I hate moving an inch when I have just a regular headache, make it a migraine and doing all that? No thanks. I can sympathize with him. Really stinks as it seemed like he was on great form for the Tour this year.

As for Revere, yes, your point was made, like I said my profession snuck out for second.
As to the above, and this fits with my general view of doping in the sport, my first though for anyone that struggles with illness on the day after a rest day was bad blood bag.

 

[XYZ]

Re: 2015 USCHO Cycling Thread

As for Revere, yes, your point was made, like I said my profession snuck out for second.
As to the above, and this fits with my general view of doping in the sport, my first though for anyone that struggles with illness on the day after a rest day was bad blood bag.

Or at least a bad something. Didn't want to say it myself but it did indeed cross my mind. Believe it or not I try to not be too cynical, but I wonder about TVG at times. Just don't understand how anyone with any moral base at all willingly trains with Wonderlance. Especially in the "post-Armstrong Era." Seriously can't find anyone else on the planet to moto-pace you on training rides? Try to give guys benefit of the doubt but it's tough, which is exactly why almost everyone involved in the sport, especially David Millar, from about 1991-2005 should go burn in hell.