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2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

That was a great race yesterday for a racing fan to watch, though a forgettable race for a Penske fan to watch.

I think Graham has real talent, Marco just has a name.

I think you're spot on, Marco has always had a good ride and has 2 wins to show for it in about 7 seasons. Graham has had inferior equipment generally so maybe he's still got a bright future ahead of him. While I'd love nothing more than for Marco to take after his Dad or Grandfather he's pretty average and it means a great seat unavailable to a driver who really deserves it based on talent (insert your top 5 here).

I agree it was a great race to watch, it really showed (along w/Long Beach) what these cars and drivers are capable of.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Well, it's almost pole day @ Indy. I don't like the fact they gave them 50 extra hp for the next 2 days, kinda gimmicky.

The IndyGP was a good race last week. Graham is en fuego.
The F1 race was a tad on the boring side. Seems like Mercedes is back to being comfortably on top.

F1 is very serious their pursuit of 1000hp and wide 70's type tyres. Refueling may also come back, but my first reaction is I don't like that idea. I like all cars being equal on fuel.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

So with all of the issues at Indy, in terms of the wrecks and whatnot...

Not only were the cars getting 50 extra HP, they were also getting a very unique aero package.

I must say, I'm not a fan of that, too.

It's one thing to have a qualifying engine, and to have totally different trims of the devices that are on the car- but to have different parts on the car just for qualifying? Ugh.

Now the drivers are complaining about lack of power. This is race power and race package now- just like next week. Deal with it.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

with 3 cars upside down in one week, Carpenter's big crash and now this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlbdpXb3FSg

I'm just hoping for a safe 500 now, I don't care who wins and by how much
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

F1 is very serious their pursuit of 1000hp and wide 70's type tyres. Refueling may also come back, but my first reaction is I don't like that idea. I like all cars being equal on fuel.

Back when they took fueling away, I hated the idea of cars being equal on fuel.

But then as the last few years played out, I hate the idea of going back to refueling.

Just goes to show racing fans are impossible to please... :confused:

Now, the 1,000 HP and 70s style tires have absolutely no downside whatsoever! :D
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

I missed the F1 race and it sounds like a royal ****-up by Mercedes led to Hamilton not winning the race...wow

INDY was INDY, a great spectacle and great race! I'm glad for Montoya...but was pulling for Kanaan, Newgarden, Dixon, Daly etc...

however, there are issues with attendance even at INDY...it's not good to see empty rows down the front stretch and in the pit grandstands...also looked like turn 3 had some empty rows...this used to be an automatic sell-out...ugh
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

however, there are issues with attendance even at INDY...it's not good to see empty rows down the front stretch and in the pit grandstands...also looked like turn 3 had some empty rows...this used to be an automatic sell-out...ugh

There have been empty seats at the 500 for years now. The Pit Row Terrace seats for many 500s have been glaringly empty, especially since the economy went south (which in Indiana was actually already happening in full force in 2007). Many fans who found it too expensive in trying times to travel to races never came back even as jobs started to rebound (true at all NASCAR races as well).

In 2012 it began to look like the 500 was attracting more people though, and more seats were filling up. Then before the 2013 race, 22,000 seats were removed, mostly at the turn 3 entrance in the Northeast vista and the North Vista. The grandstands looked more completely full in 2013 and 2014 than they had in years. This season it looked a little less full to me but the official infield area in turn three the speedway added a few years back and had the largest crowd it has seen yet this race.

For a truly empty race track, look south to Charlotte. The Saturday NASCAR race had the highest percentage of empty seats I have seen at one of NASCAR's top two national series since the early days of ESPN televising races flag to flag in the 1980s. 75% of the individual grandstands were completely empty, and the main stand along the start finish line was perhaps half full. After removing 1000s of seats over the last few seasons, Charlotte has a capacity of 90,000, its smallest configuration since the explosion of NASCAR's popularity 20 years ago. There were perhaps 10,000 people at that Saturday race, on a beautiful day in the middle of a holiday weekend in the heart of NASCAR country.

Charlotte and Indy aren't alone, as virtually every track that hosts a NASCAR or Indy-Car race has reduced capacity over the last few years. At it's largest Michigan International Speedway once boasted more than 125,000 seats. After repeated reductions in capacity it now has 71,000. The grandstands there used to be packed for CART races and the infield would have 1000s of more fans. If Indy-Car went there this summer they'd have a hard time drawing flies.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

I missed the F1 race and it sounds like a royal ****-up by Mercedes led to Hamilton not winning the race...wow..........

Yes, race management screwed up big time for Hamilton. Miscalculation of lead over Rosberg and different rules for virtual safety car vs. real safety car. Toto Wolf apologized to Hamilton later.

Hamilton stuck in third place at re-start and couldn't over take Vettel who was in 2nd place. Hamilton very gracious and showed a lot of class after leading almost the entire race.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Indy was a great race, clean racing and uncontrived passing. I was very happy to see how close they could get to each other and not have the front wash out. I was pretty happy with the attendance on tv, but maybe I had lower expectations. I thought Pagenaud had the race locked up until his wing issue. He was just biding his time.

Monaco just needs to go away, the cars have outgrown that track, for like the last 40 years.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Fontana was ****ing amazing today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously ****ing amazing!

Will Power needs to **** and drive. Look, this was pack racing of a different variety than has been seen previously. If you're the creme de la creme of drivers you shouldn't have problems with it, period.

If you're worried about getting injured, well...Listen to A.J. Foyt then. He and Mario have seen it all and he was happy w/the race and the closeness of the competition.

Will Power is a sissy boy. If Senna were alive now and competing in Indycar he'd lap Power about 3x per race for chrissakes.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

I'm surprised Power was as emotional as he was. That would worry me as his car owner. The fact is, drivers have died at every type of track these cars race on, the fastest ovals, the smaller ones, the road and street courses. He seems to think the type of danger he sensed yesterday can only happen at a racetrack like California.

I think comparing this race to Las Vegas, while understandable, is a bit off. Vegas had drivers who did not belong on the track because they were trying to make the race a gimmick. In fact if memory serves, one of those drivers touched off the whole wreck that claimed Wheldon's life. It also had less good racing room. It truly was a disaster waiting to happen (even though it can be said any time you drive around at nearly 200 MPH that is a disaster waiting to happen).

What I thought was an unnecessary risk yesterday was red-flagging the race so late setting up the 2 or 3 lap shootout just so we'd see a green flag finish. This ain't NASCAR. The (few) fans left who watch open wheel racing accept that sometimes a race ends behind a pace car. Like the occasional tie in hockey, I have no issue with a race ending under yellow.

To me the most shocking thing about the race was the absolutely vast swath of empty grandstand. The grandstand capacity at this racetrack (like nearly every other venue used by IndyCar or NASCAR) has been reduced. The place holds fewer than 70,000 people now and it was not 10% occupied. 2/3rds of the grandstand was closed off and empty, and the middle 1/3 of the stand open before and after the start/finish line was perhaps a quarter full. Maybe 5000 people showed up. How can this sport be considered even a niche sport when it can't draw flies, either in person or on TV? A bad college hockey team in South Bend drew that many fans multiple times last season.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Overall I did not mind the packiness of the race. There were tons of room to maneuver and the high line/low line case study was interesting. I do think a couple drivers were too choppy, Rahal and Sato come to mind. They could have made sure they were more clear of their opponent before moving up or down in front of them. There needs to be a little more respect to the danger and speed in that regards. Rahal caused Helio's wreck because he dropped in front of him too soon. I also think on the 3 wides the drivers need to give more room to eachother. In either case, the most dangerous time is when drivers had to back out due to getting chopped and fell through the field like a rock. I also do think the fastest cars do need to be able to pull away, if not then it just comes down to who makes the last pass wins and that is a little gimmicky. But I thought the race was compelling.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

The debate about last Saturday's race in CA continues. Now IndyCar is gonna go old style NASCAR on drivers who dissent a little too publicly. At least the sanctioning body is admitting that perhaps they didn't come up with the right rules package for the conditions that actually transpired at the race.

I can sympathize with Tony Kanaan's concern since I wasn't in the car any more than the reporter he was ticked at, but I still say the race was not the equivalent of Las Vegas 2011.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

F1 discussing going to full ground effects in the future, but retaining the complicated front wings. Interesting.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Seems like it's been a long time since I've been able to see a race, and even longer since it's been an Indy race. But caught the one at the Mile yesterday- good race, I thought.

Especially that Bourdais and his team changed to a speed strategy vs. a fuel economy strategy- which made most of the field look like they were standing still. So nice to see someone DRIVE to win a race vs. conserve, sometimes. He was SO much faster that you would have thought that other team leaders would have done the very simple math that over the 40 laps of a stint you would (and did ) get more than enough time to add the one extra stop, let alone two more. Had that gone green instead of that late caution, I think he would really would have had all but a few lapped. Curious that so many cars were slow after the last start....

I can stand watching that.
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Seems like it's been a long time since I've been able to see a race, and even longer since it's been an Indy race. But caught the one at the Mile yesterday- good race, I thought.

Especially that Bourdais and his team changed to a speed strategy vs. a fuel economy strategy- which made most of the field look like they were standing still. So nice to see someone DRIVE to win a race vs. conserve, sometimes. He was SO much faster that you would have thought that other team leaders would have done the very simple math that over the 40 laps of a stint you would (and did ) get more than enough time to add the one extra stop, let alone two more. Had that gone green instead of that late caution, I think he would really would have had all but a few lapped. Curious that so many cars were slow after the last start....

I can stand watching that.

Milwaukee was great. I was about 35 rows up above the flagstand.

The strategies were interesting. Clearly Bourdais' team nailed it. I thought Helio or Montoya would have something for him in the end with tires that were about 12 laps fresher but they must not have had the set-up dialed in.

Unfortunately, the late start (4:30 on a Sunday? Are you ****ing kidding me???) killed attendance along with a lack of the omnipresent advertising they had in the early 90's.

I don't think Andretti will promote this race again. Indycar's leader (Miles) doesn't give a **** about the series as a whole, only the 500's bottom line, thus the schedule is in a constant state of flux etc. and this inconsistency in dates, along with the split that killed Indycar before it, has resulted in maybe 12-14,000 going to Milwaukee. You want to know your hardcore fans? Those were the people in attendance on Sunday. But you need the Chicago/Minneapolis/Indianapolis/Detroit etc people coming to fill the stands and maybe push it towards a sell-out and you cannot do that a start time of 4:30 on a Sunday and only one support series race to offer those who come.

If Milwaukee continues, it NEEDS to be run on the Sunday after the INDY 500 like it was traditionally for about what? 60 years? 50? Problem is Penske won't move that ****y Detroit race (and let's face it, Penske has never cared about the series health, only his own team). But I digress. Run Milwaukee on the Sunday after INDY, at 12pm or 1pm. Have Indy Lights and Pro Mazda race on Saturday or have qualifying for all 3 series on Saturday with Pro Mazda race Saturday afternoon and Indy Lights race after the Indycars on Sunday.

The answers for Indycar seem so obvious and Milwaukee isn't like Louden, New Hampshire or that **** track in St. Louis. IT ABSOLUTELY can and should work here...the powers that be must acknowledge what worked in the past and act on that knowledge.

Kudos to Michael Andretti, I believe his group did everything they could but so much of what could make Milwaukee successful is out of his hands
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Milwaukee was great only because of Bourdais ended up running flat out, the rest of the field minus Rahal and Helio just tooled around in fuel mileage mode. I just hate that. I don't how to fix that as it's the strategists' fault. I can only imagine how awesome it would have been with all the cars running using Bourdias' strategy.

I'm not convinced moving Milwaukee back to it's traditional spot would help at all. The time of the race sucked for sure. It also sucked having qualifying on the same day as the race. I like the buildup of a racing weekend, but maybe I'm all wet on that. Solo, how much of the day did you attend?
 
Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Re: 2015 Open Wheel Racing - The Devil comes to Ferrari & the return Wayward Driver!!

Milwaukee was great only because of Bourdais ended up running flat out, the rest of the field minus Rahal and Helio just tooled around in fuel mileage mode. I just hate that. I don't how to fix that as it's the strategists' fault. I can only imagine how awesome it would have been with all the cars running using Bourdias' strategy.

I'm not convinced moving Milwaukee back to it's traditional spot would help at all. The time of the race sucked for sure. It also sucked having qualifying on the same day as the race. I like the buildup of a racing weekend, but maybe I'm all wet on that. Solo, how much of the day did you attend?

I had family in town and was also taking a first timer (future Mrs. Solo) so we arrived just in time for the Lights race at 2pm.

I think in the future (if there is a future for Milwaukee) they should have Indycar, Lights and Pro Mazda, they NEED at least 3 races on the weekend.

Qualify all 3 on Saturday, race Pro Mazda late in the afternoon or spice it up and have them qualify first, then Lights then Pro Mazda race then Indycar qualifying

then Sunday Indycar race at noon or 1pm and Lights at 4pm...but what do I know, I'm not Mark Miles;)
 
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