2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bull!!

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I received an email today from Caterham and they are going to be at Abu Dhabi due to their crowdfunding efforts. They have raised 1.8M pounds which is about 80% of their goal of 2.35M pounds.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I received an email today from Caterham and they are going to be at Abu Dhabi due to their crowdfunding efforts. They have raised 1.8M pounds which is about 80% of their goal of 2.35M pounds.

Kobayashi is going to drive one of the Caterhams. No word on the other driver, yet.

Meanwhile, Caterham laid off essentially their entire workforce. They are only bringing a crew of 40 to Abu Dhabi to run the weekend.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Kobayashi is going to drive one of the Caterhams. No word on the other driver, yet.

Meanwhile, Caterham laid off essentially their entire workforce. They are only bringing a crew of 40 to Abu Dhabi to run the weekend.

Read this morning on Twitter that Marussia people are in Abu Dhabi but no cars have arrived yet.

Also rumors that Max Chilton is driving the second Caterham car but there has been no confirmation of that.

And finally Grojean has been confirmed at Lotus for another year. I guess since his shunts have lessened he suckered Lotus again.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I received an email today from Caterham and they are going to be at Abu Dhabi due to their crowdfunding efforts. They have raised 1.8M pounds which is about 80% of their goal of 2.35M pounds.

Wow. That's a lot of donated dough for something as frivolous as an F1 team.

So double points this weekend...it would have been interesting if Ricardo was within 50 of 1st and the Mercs wipe eachother out in the first corner, which could happen. I am looking forward to 2 desperate drivers dueling it out this weekend. Both have shown some flaws in errors they have made recently.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Its official, Vettel to Ferrari on a three year deal. I'm now looking for a new team to cheer for. I'm thinking either Williams or wherever Alonso ends up. I guess McLaren.

What the heck is Ferrari thinking? Letting or forcing the best driver on the grid leave! Do they really think Vettel would have outperformed Alonso this season or last in the dogs he was given to drive? With all due respect to Hamilton and Vettel (even though I don't like him, and the car was 75% of it, one doesn't win 4 WDC with being good), Alonso is the best driver on the grid right now. And the best since Schumi.

And I read that the second Caterham seat goes to Will Stevens (Who? Apparently a reserve driver for both Marussia and Caterham) who most likely won the bidding war.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Its official, Vettel to Ferrari on a three year deal. I'm now looking for a new team to cheer for. I'm thinking either Williams or wherever Alonso ends up. I guess McLaren.

What the heck is Ferrari thinking? Letting or forcing the best driver on the grid leave! Do they really think Vettel would have outperformed Alonso this season or last in the dogs he was given to drive? With all due respect to Hamilton and Vettel (even though I don't like him, and the car was 75% of it, one doesn't win 4 WDC with being good), Alonso is the best driver on the grid right now. And the best since Schumi.

The Ferrari-Alonso marriage was broken a long time ago for many reasons. No way those two could work together anymore.

What really puzzles me isn't why Ferrari took Vettel, but why Vettel left Red Bull in the first place and then chose Ferrari.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

The Ferrari-Alonso marriage was broken a long time ago for many reasons. No way those two could work together anymore.

What really puzzles me isn't why Ferrari took Vettel, but why Vettel left Red Bull in the first place and then chose Ferrari.

I read that too about Alonso and Ferrari, and I call BS on it. That relationship could have and should have been repaired with a good car and good leadership. And both should have happened a couple of years ago. I am going to take pleasure in watching Alonso beat Vettel next season provided the McLaren and Ferrari cars are comperable to this season cars as far as competative performance to each other.

As for Vettel going to Ferrari, I think #1 it is the Ferrari mystique, and #2 $$$. I'm sure Ferrari threw gobs of $ at him. Maybe Vettel wants to prove he was a better driver (especially German driver) than Schumi and he can't do that without driving for Ferrari.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

As for Vettel going to Ferrari, I think #1 it is the Ferrari mystique, and #2 $$$. I'm sure Ferrari threw gobs of $ at him. Maybe Vettel wants to prove he was a better driver (especially German driver) than Schumi and he can't do that without driving for Ferrari.

There's a LOT to that. But I also wonder if the fact that Adrian Newey is leaving had an effect on Vettel's decision. He's the guy who was able to make a car just for Sebastian. This year- with less influence- the car wasn't to his liking.

That, and there is something to making a change. Just ask Lewis. Two years ago, everyone thought he was nuts to leave a strong McLaren team and go to a mid-pack Mercedes team. Seems to have turned out pretty well....

 

[Runsub5]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Its official, Vettel to Ferrari on a three year deal. I'm now looking for a new team to cheer for. I'm thinking either Williams or wherever Alonso ends up. I guess McLaren...........

I'm with you.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

There's a LOT to that. But I also wonder if the fact that Adrian Newey is leaving had an effect on Vettel's decision. He's the guy who was able to make a car just for Sebastian. This year- with less influence- the car wasn't to his liking.

That, and there is something to making a change. Just ask Lewis. Two years ago, everyone thought he was nuts to leave a strong McLaren team and go to a mid-pack Mercedes team. Seems to have turned out pretty well....

I agree with what you have written. I forgot about Newey leaving.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I read that too about Alonso and Ferrari, and I call BS on it. That relationship could have and should have been repaired with a good car and good leadership.

Agreed, winning changes everything, so does not winning.

Anyway, I am sad to see the best driver leave my favorite team. Sad sad sad. They screwed up hiring Kimi, and now they screwed up with Alonso/Vettel. The only positive is I hope to hear the Italian and German Anthems at the end of a GP in the next 3 years. Good memories will be rekindled and new ones made. I wish Alonso all the best.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I read that too about Alonso and Ferrari, and I call BS on it. That relationship could have and should have been repaired with a good car and good leadership. And both should have happened a couple of years ago. I am going to take pleasure in watching Alonso beat Vettel next season provided the McLaren and Ferrari cars are comperable to this season cars as far as competative performance to each other.

That's like saying the marriage would have been fine if he didn't cheat on her...

There were expectations on both sides -- Alonso expected a winning car to be provided and not keep hearing about all the good things for next year and Ferrari expected Alonso to behave the way a Ferrari driver should behave (according to Ferrari of course...) -- and they both failed to meet those expectations. Thus, the marriage broke up.

Plus, Alonso is a very emotional person. Just look at the way he behaved at McLaren in his duel with Hamilton and Dennis. This led to his acting out and costing McLaren a $100 million fine and leaving a team that was quite capable of winning a championship to one that was sort of capable (at the time) of winning a championship. Alonso doesn't exactly think with his brain at times.

As for Vettel going to Ferrari, I think #1 it is the Ferrari mystique, and #2 $$$. I'm sure Ferrari threw gobs of $ at him. Maybe Vettel wants to prove he was a better driver (especially German driver) than Schumi and he can't do that without driving for Ferrari.

Agree. Mystique + Money + Legacy. But people have been seduced over less and left in the gutter in the process...

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I agree with what you have written. I forgot about Newey leaving.

Newey leaving is overblown as far as this year is concerned. It definitely is a factor for next year.

Newey was totally involved with the design of the 2014 car. What cost them was the new engine regulations which Mercedes got better than anyone else and the total elimination of the blown exhaust system which was Newey's ace in the hole for the past four years, even when the FIA tried to reduce the effect over the years before totally eliminating it. I don't blame this year's poor performance on a car that wasn't suited for Vettel.

Now, knowing Newey was leaving compounded by a poor car and engine this year, I'm sure weighed on Vettel's mind. But, personally, I still think Red Bull is in better shape moving forward than Ferrari is. We shall see.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Newey leaving is overblown as far as this year is concerned. It definitely is a factor for next year.

Newey was totally involved with the design of the 2014 car. What cost them was the new engine regulations which Mercedes got better than anyone else and the total elimination of the blown exhaust system which was Newey's ace in the hole for the past four years, even when the FIA tried to reduce the effect over the years before totally eliminating it. I don't blame this year's poor performance on a car that wasn't suited for Vettel.

Now, knowing Newey was leaving compounded by a poor car and engine this year, I'm sure weighed on Vettel's mind. But, personally, I still think Red Bull is in better shape moving forward than Ferrari is. We shall see.

The reason I put Newey into the "leave Red Bull" thing was how the car he made was so suited to Vettel and his style. That didn't happen this year, and with Newey going, Vettel's reasons to stay get less. As I see it. The Italian money means more in that context.

Yes, the Renault engine was poor, but when was the last time Vettel's teammate was this impressive to him? I don't recall the last time as part of the Red Bull family. And perhaps the rules changed against what Vettel was able to use- but any driver could have had their designer did it.

It's not THE reason, but part of it, I think.

 

[Runsub5]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

What do the specifications for the cars look like for next year? Is the hybrid motif still around with perhaps a few tweaks? Mercedes engines are clearly dominant and they will more than likely continue into next year.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

What do the specifications for the cars look like for next year? Is the hybrid motif still around with perhaps a few tweaks? Mercedes engines are clearly dominant and they will more than likely continue into next year.

Few more years- the engines are allowed a percentage of parts to change, and less the year after. Ferrari and Renault have been asking dearly for more changes than what the rules allow, but Mercedes is holding firm to the rule.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I've read stories to the effect that Vettel trained himself to drive in a somewhat non-intuitive way to take advantage of the pre-2014 handling characteristics of the car, where getting on the gas earlier would tend to increase downforce because of the blown diffusers and similar aerodynamic design. It does seem like the looser, more tail-happy handling this season hasn't really suited him. I'd say I'm surprised he's had as much trouble as he has, but he's still done pretty well, sitting in 4th in the championship table (and say what you will about the engines, but he's ahead of everybody with a Mercedes power plant not named Mercedes). It's really only Ricciardo's surprising success that's shown up Vettel, though it does seem like he's had some really solid drives in the past few races.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

That was somewhat of an anti-climactic end to the season. I would have loved it if Rosberg's car had not had electrical/braking issues. I still Hamilton was going to be next to impossible for Rosberg to overtake and get enough help from the Williams to win the WDC but it would have been fun to watch him try. I don't particularly like the Abu Dhabi track but it delivered some decent battles in the midfield.

I am saddened that yesterday was Alonso's last race for Ferrari. I am really struggling with Vettel in red. Ugh. I will be similarly saddened if yesterday was Button's last F1 race. I think he is one of the genuine "good guys" in the paddock. I think his only hope of keeping his seat is his relationship with Honda but I am not sure that is enough.

I really, really, hope that Williams can deliver a good car next season. If they do it is going to be fun to watch them. I think that they have a potential WDC in Bottas and of course Massa being there also make me cheer for them.

With the way Ferrari keeps their musical chairs for Team Principle, I am thinking of applying for the job. I figure this new guy will last until about April and my qualifications are at least as good as his.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Ferrari is a trainwreck. Domenicali gets fired, Mattiacci gets hired to replace him, basically forces the best driver on the grid out of the team, then he gets fired. In between, Montezemolo, their boss, gets fired. I wonder what Arrivabene would have done with Alonso? I'm concerned Marchionne is going to be an issue going forward, he was not a meddler in Ferrari's F1 team until this year. The timing of all these moves is just *** up.

I may have to go back to just rooting for German drivers like I used to and not ally with any certain team unless Ford gets back into the mix, and I hope they don't for the sake of their overall financial healthiness, unless they maybe just do engines like they did with Cosworth years ago. It seems that their Ecoboost could be easily marketed with F1 or Indycar.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Can they run 2014 cars and not worry about crash testing?

I read this morning that the FIA & F1 Commission has granted Caterham permission to run it's 2014 spec car next season should they be able to compete.

I assume that this is also OK for Marussia, but since their assests are being auctioned off on December 16-17. I doubt they are going to compete.