2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bull!!

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

It will be interesting to see how this season plays out. Clearly, Mercedes has the car to beat- Hamilton was faster than Rosberg, and he won by a country mile.

As for the rest- Red Bull is interesting- Riccardo got DQ'd due to a non-approved fuel flow meter (recall that the engines are strictly restricted to 100kg/hr), so McLaren took a very nice 2nd and 3rd, and a nice lead in the constructors.

Alonso may not be impressive, but at least he managed. Kimi looks as if he's be better off 40 years ago when the fuel injection was mechanical- he just could not get a good hold of the car's different braking.

Huge shout out for Kevin Magnisson- 3rd on the track 2nd after the DQ- you really look like you belong on the team. Very cool

Big shout out for Williams and Bottas- great drive after busting a wheel and taking a BIG drop in the standings. It's too bad that Masa got nailed at the start of the race.

I'm good with the sound of the cars- being from the 80's and all. And the significantly less aero was pretty obvious in that the cars could drive near each other, and the braking showed the cars moving around. It was cool.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I enjoyed yesterday's race. There seemed to be decent passing and a real upheaval in the running order compared to the past few years. I hope it continues.

Wow, if yesterday was any indication, and if Mercedes has decent reliability then the rest of the field is in trouble. It could be like last season with RB.

I feel bad for Riccardo, but thems the rules, and I have zero doubt RB could have been cheating.

I agree with Alfa about Magnusson and Bottas. I hope both teams can keep up their good form.

I'm not sure if Kimi's issues were car related or driver related. But he did seem to struggle with the brake bias.

A year away from F1 hasn't improved Kobayshi's driving. I wonder if he's bringing enough sponsorship money to cover the cost of his wrecks.

I don't have a problem with the car sounds. I might have mentioned this before but after one attends a NHRA race in person, then all other motor sport sounds pale in comparison. I think it is especially so when watching on TV.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I feel bad for Riccardo, but thems the rules, and I have zero doubt RB could have been cheating.

Cheating is possible, I suppose, but it doesn't seem particularly likely given the reported interplay with the FIA. My money's on RB being absolutely convinced that the flow meter was wrong and their own fuel delivery calculations were right. (Only they can say whether they're better off being right and disqualified or wrong and somewhere in the top ten below second... unless they think it was going to be so far off that they couldn't hold a position in the points, in which case it's worth the risk to defy the FIA and try to bank on an appeal. All assuming that RB is correct about the fuel metering, which is by no means a given.)


Re Kobayashi, there was reportedly a brake failure on the car.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

The sound of the cars....Racer.com has a great comparison of the 2013/2014 sounds, not good. My 17 yr old said the cars sound slow and boring without the high rpm screaming engines. I recall back in the glory days of CART the engines sounded all wound up like that. We used to sit in the grandstands @ Elkhart Lake and listen to them scream up the hill, then down shift through turn 1. It was awesome. Formula E will be interesting, but without the sound I don't know how captivating I will find it. I never realized how critical engine sound is until now.

I totally biffed dvring the race, so I was spared the Ferrari debacle and the Rosberg romp. The highlight of the weekend was Vettel getting cheered when we didn't make it out of Q1. I thought being Riccardos' teammate there might be some loyalty to Vettel as he's his teammate. Wrong.

Power is dominating Indy testing as usual. The big question is will he be able to not screw up this year or get nailed by bad luck yet again?

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

My money's on RB being absolutely convinced that the flow meter was wrong and their own fuel delivery calculations were right.

Going down this path seems very risky to me. And why did all of the rest of the teams get it right and they did not. Especially the other Renault teams.

Re Kobayashi, there was reportedly a brake failure on the car.

I had obviously not read that when I wrote my post. But at any rate, I'm not sure I believe this one either although I suppose it could be the truth. It just looked like a typical Kobayashi move to me.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Cheating is possible, I suppose, but it doesn't seem particularly likely given the reported interplay with the FIA. My money's on RB being absolutely convinced that the flow meter was wrong and their own fuel delivery calculations were right. (Only they can say whether they're better off being right and disqualified or wrong and somewhere in the top ten below second... unless they think it was going to be so far off that they couldn't hold a position in the points, in which case it's worth the risk to defy the FIA and try to bank on an appeal. All assuming that RB is correct about the fuel metering, which is by no means a given.)

I'm quite sure that RB is going to say that the flow meter was bad and the calculation was correct.

But there are some simple arguments that can be poked into that- first of all- the device in question is incredibly simple, they are more of a work or not work device, and had there been a consistent problem with the device, the odds of them having multiple ones that are bad is very remote. Remember, they do claim that the second sensor was bad, too.

Then, the device was inspected, probably the calibration checked by the FIA, and was declared ok. While it's natural to question the governing body, it's also a safe suggestion that a returned measurement device that is declared ok is actually correct.

On the specific device- this is used for all the F1 cars and all the world endurance cars- so it's not as if the device is some kind of new thing that nobody knows about.

Then, the calculation- that's very easy to get wrong. BTDT. I'm 100% sure that they calculate fuel flow just like the rest of us- using an injector calibration calculation. That uses the injector pulses, and the known injection pressure data to calculate how much fuel is flowing- which is very important to comare to the desired injection mass. That data is normally trimmed with a sensor in the exhaust- which I know they all use. That calculation is very easy to get slightly wrong.

Given a choice between a sensor vs. a calculation, I would personally side with the sensor.

Then there's the instruction problem- RB was instructed to make an adjustment from the FIA. They refused. That, by itself, seems to be a rather bad thing to do.

The sum of all of that, to me, means that Riccardo is excluded from the results, and should stay that way.

And by that, he should not persoanlly get 2nd with RB not getting points- one can not determine if this was an advantage, one that gave him an edge over Magnunssen- who closed fast on him later in the race. It may have been RB that caused this problem, but it is quite possible that Riccardo benefitted directly as a result of the problem.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Red Bull are formally appealing Ricciardo's disqualification.

 

[Runsub5]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I really miss the sound.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS4Dh_EAfJI

 

[Runsub5]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Aussie organizers consider filing suit for lack of sexiness. Next year could be different.

http://en.espnf1.com/australia/motorsport/story/149751.html

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Aussie organizers consider filing suit for lack of sexiness. Next year could be different.

http://en.espnf1.com/australia/motorsport/story/149751.html

A lawsuit? That's pretty ridiculous, though I agree the engines sound putsy.

Indycar car is doing double points for the 500 mile races. I don't like gimmicky points deals, but with the 500 mile races being roughly twice the distance of your average race, I like this move. Back when I was a kid, those 500 mile races were huge events and I think double points fits that. Here's food for thought...do you want to get some headlines? Do a 1000 mile race, no driver changes. I'm thinking oval, and it would have to be a track were they have to lift and not just mash the gas pedal flat the hole time and hang on. I missed the Pocono race last year, were they lifting or even braking in the corners?

 

[solovsfett]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

The sound of the current F1 car is definitely not appealing and I was pretty surprised at how much that affected my enjoyment of the race...there is at least this - http://www.racer.com/index.php/f1/345-latest-stories/102044-wolff-f1-must-listen-to-fans-over-noise

...but maybe it's something we can get used to over time...Senna's 1988 MP4/4 doesn't sound too much different than today's car - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbKgW-gX7SI

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Man, such complaints about the sound...

Having heard the V10's and the v8's live, they are horrifically painful in person. One HAS to wear hearing proteciton else suffer some serious loss in a short amount of time.

Perhaps now one can now watch without pain.

Time passes on, technology changes, and performance requirements change as well. Unless you are willing to not watch, I would just suggest accepting and moving on.

Again, since I started watching in the 80s', I like the sound quite a bit. Just like the change in Indy cars last year.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I heard the formula e cars on youtube today, they sounded kinda cool.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Man, such complaints about the sound...

Having heard the V10's and the v8's live, they are horrifically painful in person. One HAS to wear hearing proteciton else suffer some serious loss in a short amount of time.

Perhaps now one can now watch without pain.

Time passes on, technology changes, and performance requirements change as well. Unless you are willing to not watch, I would just suggest accepting and moving on.

Again, since I started watching in the 80s', I like the sound quite a bit. Just like the change in Indy cars last year.

Thank you! This is the best post I've seen anywhere about the new sound.

My sentiments exactly. Way too much is being made about the new sound. Unlike any other sport, racing affects a plethora of senses. Let's stop getting all bent out of shape over the sound. This F1 season promises to be a very interesting one. Let's enjoy it!

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

I heard the formula e cars on youtube today, they sounded kinda cool.

Sounded? Is this supposed to be an oxymoron?

 

[Timothy A]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Sounded? Is this supposed to be an oxymoron?

There is sound, it's no oxymoron. Type in Jarno Trulli Formula E test, or something to that affect.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

There is sound, it's no oxymoron. Type in Jarno Trulli Formula E test, or something to that affect.

Squealing tires...

I'm being a bit sarcastic. I'll check it out, because I am curious.

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Thank you! This is the best post I've seen anywhere about the new sound.

+1


Last night while watching TV (don't remember what but it wasn't sports) I saw a Microsoft commercial that featured the Lotus F1 team. It was pretty cool ad.

And today on my local AM news radio station there was a NBC Sports commercial for this weekends GP. I was stunned and even checked to make sure that I wasn't on the local sports radio station. And people wonder why Indycar is dying.......


Oh, and I am really excited for this weekend's GP. I am hoping for some excellent racing (this is one of two current Tilke tracks I like, Austin is the other) and am very interested to see how the very hot weather and possible rain will play out on the track.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Saw the start of the F1 Race during the replay, but missed about 3/4 of it. Doesn't appear I missed all that much- Hamilton was driving away with Rosberg behind. Looks like Ricciardo dropped out, which let Alonso finish fourth.

I guess I should read the re-cap.

So, how was the Indy car race?

 

[MattS]

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Re: 2014 Open Wheel Racing - if it's white smoke, it's not a good sign & that's no bu

Saw the start of the F1 Race during the replay, but missed about 3/4 of it. Doesn't appear I missed all that much- Hamilton was driving away with Rosberg behind. Looks like Ricciardo dropped out, which let Alonso finish fourth.

IIRC, Alonso was ahead of Ricciardo when he retired or at a minimum he was giving him all he could handle.

The best racing was from about 6-8. Button, Massa, Bottas were giving a good show for the last quarter of the race.