2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

[CLS]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Perhaps this is an idle hope, but I wonder if the fact that the FF is no longer a guaranteed sellout will give the venues a bit more bargaining power vs. the NCAA. After all, there are only a limited number of NHL sized rinks, and the alternative is to move to a smaller site (with all its face-losing implications) and being more reasonable with the restrictions on the venues.

While it doesn’t affect me directly, I think the restriction on logos showing in the ice surface is onerous to the venues, and the restrictions on beer sales combined with making leaving the venue between games such a pain give creates far more inconvenience to the patrons than it prevents alcohol-induced disturbances. So if I were an NHL rink, I’d think twice about bidding on an event that gives me only two gates but effectively eats up four or five days, requires me to spend man-hours making mickey mouse changes to my rink, and deprives me of an important source of revenue.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Building on a some points from a good post:

Rink Location- we must not be ones who enjoy the tailgaiting aspect of the event, as I'd rather be able to walk directly to the rink instead of driving or taking public transportation.

Quite honestly many FF fans feel this way; probably a majority do. Our group didn't have a tailgate party, although we enjoyed chatting with some who did. My point was that Philly's set-up was at least satisfactory for everyone. If you wanted to park at the arena, that worked well. If you specifically didn't want to have a car while in Philly, that was also fine. There is something to be said for that.

For the long term, maybe it's just as well that this varies from year-to-year. Next year in Boston will be perfect for those who want the "walk to everything" set-up.

Atmosphere- I noted the lower bowl holes as well, thougth they should have been better filled. Even Saturday night, the upper bowl appeard to be more full than the sides of the lower. I wish they allowed more lottery selections mid-rink- which would give us better end-zone seats.

If I could change just one thing about the Frozen Four, I'd make one section of Center Ice/Lower Bowl seating available to the public. Perhaps that would translate to 25% of the Center Ice seating. If you could somehow identify the corporate friends who actually use the tickets, I doubt a single one of them would be displaced by the change.

I realize this is probably just wishful thinking. But wouldn't it be great to see at least one Center Ice section jammed full with people who truly love the event?

How would this work with the lottery, especially with the select-a-seat system? Not sure. But conceptually speaking, if you're going to have a lottery, there should be ways to win that lottery. For the most part, priority holders have been allotted good seating. But even at the highest levels of priority, we've generally been precluded from the great seats for a number of years.

Pittsburgh was especially bad in this regard. I remember remarking at the time of Pitt lottery that it was as if an evil genius had gone through the public sections and pulled all of the best seats out of the mix. Those seats wound up being marketed as premium seating, with a much higher asking price. Philly was a little better on this factor. At one priority level below the top, we were able to bag Upper Level/Red Line seats in the first row. That location was definitely premium seating in Pittsburgh.

City- way more than I expected it to be. To the point where we may even think about travelling to Philly just for fun... In terms of places to eat, stuff to see, entertainment- Philly was really great.

Strongly agree. Even though I believe that ticket sales weren't fully successfully this year, trying out Philly was a good thing.

 

[CLS]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Building on a some points from a good post:

Quite honestly many FF fans feel this way; probably a majority do. Our group didn't have a tailgate party, although we enjoyed chatting with some who did. My point was that Philly's set-up was at least satisfactory for everyone. If you wanted to park at the arena, that worked well. If you specifically didn't want to have a car while in Philly, that was also fine. There is something to be said for that.

For the long term, maybe it's just as well that this varies from year-to-year. Next year in Boston will be perfect for those who want the "walk to everything" set-up.

Unfortunately, Boston is awful for tailgating, unless you enjoy tailgating in a parking garage, and that's probably forbidden anyway. Guess no city's perfect.

If I could change just one thing about the Frozen Four, I'd make one section of Center Ice/Lower Bowl seating available to the public. Perhaps that would translate to 25% of the Center Ice seating. If you could somehow identify the corporate friends who actually use the tickets, I doubt a single one of them would be displaced by the change.

I realize this is probably just wishful thinking. But wouldn't it be great to see at least one Center Ice section jammed full with people who truly love the event?

How would this work with the lottery, especially with the select-a-seat system? Not sure. But conceptually speaking, if you're going to have a lottery, there should be ways to win that lottery. For the most part, priority holders have been allotted good seating. But even at the highest levels of priority, we've generally been precluded from the great seats for a number of years.

One thought that comes to mind is "sticking" the corporate bigwigs in the luxury suites. Isn't that where they usually are anyway? Better environment for schmoozing benefactors, and they can have extra cream cheese on their bagels (oblique reference to another NCAA issue).

Pittsburgh was especially bad in this regard. I remember remarking at the time of Pitt lottery that it was as if an evil genius had gone through the public sections and pulled all of the best seats out of the mix. Those seats wound up being marketed as premium seating, with a much higher asking price.

Don't forget the folks who paid premium prices to sit behind students who stood the whole game. Philly showed this doesn't need to be a problem.

Philly was a little better on this factor. At one priority level below the top, we were able to bag Upper Level/Red Line seats in the first row. That location was definitely premium seating in Pittsburgh.

We definitely appreciated the help of the Wells Fargo folks. We don't need wheelchair seating, but lots of long, steep stair are getting problematic. We were able to get seats that minimized the problem.

Strongly agree. Even though I believe that ticket sales weren't fully successfully this year, trying out Philly was a good thing.

Agree also. I think the ticket sales issue had more to do with the supply/demand curve for the FF itself, not Philadelphia.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Unfortunately, Boston is awful for tailgating, unless you enjoy tailgating in a parking garage, and that's probably forbidden anyway. Guess no city's perfect.

Agreed on all counts. That was what I was driving at; you spelled it out better.

One thought that comes to mind is "sticking" the corporate bigwigs in the luxury suites. Isn't that where they usually are anyway? Better environment for schmoozing benefactors, and they can have extra cream cheese on their bagels (oblique reference to another NCAA issue).

Having a mental block on the cream cheese reference; maybe another clue will help me catch on.

As for the substantive point, thumbs up. Sounds like a win-win to me.

I think the ticket sales issue had more to do with the supply/demand curve for the FF itself, not Philadelphia.

Important point; and one that I've been pondering. In my conversation with Nowheresville, I mentioned DC, St. Louis & Denver as cities that had done better with ticket sales. What do those places have in common? All were pre-Ford Field, meaning 5 years ago or more. Post-Ford Field, we've had St. Paul (sold out only after regionals), Tampa (a bit short of a sellout), Pittsburgh (a bit short of a sellout) and Philly. There are unique factors involved for each individual year, of course. But the most obvious pattern is that post-Ford Field, the lottery stopped short of selling out the Public Allotment.

Quick Overview of the Unique Factors:
St. Paul: Minnesota Gopher Fanbase creates huge demand for tickets to St. Paul FFs. But as of 2011, the Gophers were at a down point -- by their standards. Some reduction in demand expected.
Tampa: Appealing but remote location. Large majority of Frozen Four Fanbase needs to fly to attend. Some reduction in demand expected.
Pittsburgh: First time host. Some reduction in demand expected.

Now where does Philly fit into this picture? OK, as a first time, non-traditional host, some reduction in demand is to be expected. But the Northeast location should have enhanced demand in comparison to Tampa, and to some extent Pittsburgh as well, IMHO. And yet it fell well short, especially on Thursday.

Looking at the last few years as a group, it does seem clear that ticket sales in the lottery are trending downward. And yet pre-Philly, there appeared to be good reasons to believe that the trend might be temporary. As such, I had hoped to see a rebound in demand in Philly. Instead, we lost additional ground. In a nutshell, that is why I found the Philly results disappointing.

The results of the Boston lottery will be extremely interesting. If Boston falls short or just barely sells out, then we'll know there's been a significant long-term change in demand. But if the Boston lottery turns out something like it did in 2004, that paints a very different picture. Stay tuned!

 

[CLS]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

...
Having a mental block on the cream cheese reference; maybe another clue will help me catch on.

See the thread in the Café entitled “College Football Players – Students or Employees”, or read some of the debate concerning pay for college athletes. There are many arcane (and silly) rules about what can be provided to college athletes and what can’t (generally, you can’t give anything to an athlete that is “available to the general student population”). It turns out (and I’m paraphrasing here) that a bagel by itself can be considered part of a meal and can be provided, but a bagel with cream cheese is a “snack” and can’t be provided. Or some other silly distinction like that. Now that I think about it, putting the “honored guests” in the luxury suites would enable to the NCAA to ply the AD’s and corporate bigwigs with booze – lock up your wife and children! Drunk VP's run amok!

...
The results of the Boston lottery will be extremely interesting. If Boston falls short or just barely sells out, then we'll know there's been a significant long-term change in demand. But if the Boston lottery turns out something like it did in 2004, that paints a very different picture. Stay tuned!

One interesting aspect to Boston is that there may be no Boston area school that’s a cinch to make the FF. BC always has strong recruiting classes and they return their goalie and most of their D, but they have a lot of scoring to replace. BU and Northeastern look like a year or two away in their rebuilding, and Harvard looks like it will be rebuilding forever. UML also has a lot to replace; could be that the closest participant is outside Massachusetts (which, for us Easterners is a long way).

 

[UnionHockeyManiac]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

I strongly dislike the city of city of Philadelphia and (most of) the people who live there. Having said that, I thought it was a phenomenal spot for the Frozen Four. Xfinity Live was perfect for pre and post game and the arena ended up being pretty much full on Saturday. Union winning is probably a contributing factor for my overall positive feelings, but I genuinely thought it was great. This was only my 2nd Frozen Four though (Tampa was the other) so I don't have much to compare it to.

 

[BobF]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Now where does Philly fit into this picture? OK, as a first time, non-traditional host, some reduction in demand is to be expected. But the Northeast location should have enhanced demand in comparison to Tampa, and to some extent Pittsburgh as well, IMHO. And yet it fell well short, especially on Thursday.

Looking at the last few years as a group, it does seem clear that ticket sales in the lottery are trending downward. And yet pre-Philly, there appeared to be good reasons to believe that the trend might be temporary. As such, I had hoped to see a rebound in demand in Philly. Instead, we lost additional ground. In a nutshell, that is why I found the Philly results disappointing.

The results of the Boston lottery will be extremely interesting. If Boston falls short or just barely sells out, then we'll know there's been a significant long-term change in demand. But if the Boston lottery turns out something like it did in 2004, that paints a very different picture. Stay tuned!

One consideration not mentioned that should be post-Ford Field is the economy! Ticket prices are higher, and traveling to the cities, (Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Philly) all new to FF without existing college hockey fan bases is expensive. We attended all 3, enjoyed all 3 for different reasons. Tampa was least expensive even with airfare as we had free rooms. Hotel rooms in both PA locations are expensive in a city, which is where we chose to stay instead of suburbs. In both cases we drove from NH and spent 4 nights in hotels. Others had to fly. Think the combo of non-traditional College hockey city and economy played a role.

I was disappointed in turnout on Thursday in Philly, BUT thought the Saturday night crowd was great, and we were all treated to a fabulous game. Overall we really enjoyed Philly. Did not have the small feel of Pittsburgh where hockey fans were everywhere. But no doubt whether you were at the Museum of Art or Independence Hall you could talk hockey with someone else in town for the event. And of course no matter what bar we went into there were FF fans. SEPTA rail service in and out was also easy to use, better system then getting out of the TD Garden.

Would love to see a steady rotation of Boston, St. Paul, DC, and Denver, with a dose of these other sites, very happy to have Tampa back and looking forward to Chicago! When Detroit has a new rink I imagine we will get back there too!

Frankly we are lucky that our championship remains this exclusive treat that we are privileged to witness year after year.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

Already booked my hotel for Boston, earlier the better when it comes to that city.

 

[PcFriars13]

One interesting aspect to Boston is that there may be no Boston area school that’s a cinch to make the FF. BC always has strong recruiting classes and they return their goalie and most of their D, but they have a lot of scoring to replace. BU and Northeastern look like a year or two away in their rebuilding, and Harvard looks like it will be rebuilding forever. UML also has a lot to replace; could be that the closest participant is outside Massachusetts (which, for us Easterners is a long way).

PC is a 45 minute train away from Boston... Keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[hobeydog]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

One consideration not mentioned that should be post-Ford Field is the economy! Ticket prices are higher, and traveling to the cities, (Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Philly) all new to FF without existing college hockey fan bases is expensive. We attended all 3, enjoyed all 3 for different reasons. Tampa was least expensive even with airfare as we had free rooms. Hotel rooms in both PA locations are expensive in a city, which is where we chose to stay instead of suburbs. In both cases we drove from NH and spent 4 nights in hotels. Others had to fly. Think the combo of non-traditional College hockey city and economy played a role.

I was disappointed in turnout on Thursday in Philly, BUT thought the Saturday night crowd was great, and we were all treated to a fabulous game. Overall we really enjoyed Philly. Did not have the small feel of Pittsburgh where hockey fans were everywhere. But no doubt whether you were at the Museum of Art or Independence Hall you could talk hockey with someone else in town for the event. And of course no matter what bar we went into there were FF fans. SEPTA rail service in and out was also easy to use, better system then getting out of the TD Garden.

Would love to see a steady rotation of Boston, St. Paul, DC, and Denver, with a dose of these other sites, very happy to have Tampa back and looking forward to Chicago! When Detroit has a new rink I imagine we will get back there too!

Frankly we are lucky that our championship remains this exclusive treat that we are privileged to witness year after year.

I agree entirely. There is a charm to the FF that more commercialized sports events don't have. As long as the financial results satisfy the NCAA bean counters and number crunchers, let's enjoy its "exclusivity" as you put it.

There was an article written in the sports press a while back, that described the FF as "the best sports event you haven't heard of" and I believe there is a good case for keeping it that way.

 

[CLS]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

PC is a 45 minute train away from Boston... Keeping my fingers crossed!

That's why I said "Massachusetts" and not "Boston area". Would be great to see Gillies pull a Terreri.

I agree entirely. There is a charm to the FF that more commercialized sports events don't have. As long as the financial results satisfy the NCAA bean counters and number crunchers, let's enjoy its "exclusivity" as you put it.

There was an article written in the sports press a while back, that described the FF as "the best sports event you haven't heard of" and I believe there is a good case for keeping it that way.

Right on. A complete sellout isn't necessarily a good thing, because it probably means that some people who want to go can't get a ticket. The optimum condition for me is that everyone who wants to go can get a seat, and that everyone who buys a ticket does so with the intent of going.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

I strongly dislike the city of city of Philadelphia and (most of) the people who live there. Having said that, I thought it was a phenomenal spot for the Frozen Four...

So what I think I hear you saying is that Philly exceeded your expectations.

You're not alone in your reservations about Philly. Someone compiling a list of America's most hospitable cities would be unlikely to put Philly on it. Perhaps that reputation played a role in suppressing advance ticket demand.

But again, like most of those posting, I had a positive experience with the city. Maybe Philly was collectively in a good mood because the much delayed, much desired spring weather finally arrived. Maybe the populace would usually be much grumpier. Maybe. But I thought the city was fine.

One consideration not mentioned that should be post-Ford Field is the economy! Ticket prices are higher, and traveling to the cities, (Tampa, Pittsburgh, and Philly) all new to FF without existing college hockey fan bases is expensive...

Legitimate point.

While consumers always prefer to pay less, if seats are sitting empty because the asking price is too high, we've got a problem that needs to be addressed. Seats at a sporting event are a very perishable commodity. Leave one empty, the seller gets zilch. A full house at lower prices may actually put more money in the till than selling pricier tickets and leaving lots of empty seats. That's a very basic line of reasoning, but too often sellers seem oblivious to it. Could be that's relevant here.

Frankly we are lucky that our championship remains this exclusive treat that we are privileged to witness year after year.

I'm with you. And if you're saying "be careful what you wish for," that's certainly a worthwhile thought to keep in mind.

At the same time, I'd still argue that the "sweet spot" is a sellout. I'm fine with striving to keep the number of rejected applicants to a minimum. I've long believed that moving the tournament to non-traditional cities was done (in part) for this reason. Willing to travel? We'll get you in the building. But as with the asking price, it's possible to overcorrect. And no one wins if there's a large number of empty seats.

 

[HockeyMan2000]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

You're not alone in your reservations about Philly. Someone compiling a list of America's most hospitable cities would be unlikely to put Philly on it.

When the NCAA rep who called us a couple of months ago asked why we haven't gone to a FF in a few years, he laughed when he asked "no love for Philly this season?" I think it was pretty apparent they knew this was going to be a low-demand FF ticket.

 

[hobeydog]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

It's amazing how powerful negative branding is, perpetuated, in my view, by laziness of many in sports media. The oft-mentioned Santa Claus incident occurred at Franklin Field in the early 60's and is a very old story.

Philly is, in fact, popular with the NCAA. For example, the lacrosse FF(men's and women's) will be here in '15 and '16 after three other successful trips to Philly. The men's soccer FF was here last year and there have been many memorable basketball regionals and FF's in town.

It's encouraging that so many college hockey fans ignored the BS and had a great time last week.

 

[Crimson Faced]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

There was a survey the NCAA sent out to FF attendees. I don't know if this list is the cities they are contemplating for future FFs, but among them were Indianapolis, Omaha, LA, NYC, Boston, Orlando, Chicago, and a few others I could not remember; none within driving distance from Boston. Hate when it is in Boston, I dislike the Fleet Center and only go there for the Beanpot, it is a cheaply built, cramped little place. The last time it was here though, was that exciting ending to the game between Maine and Denver, when Maine had almost the final two minutes of the game 6 on 3. I got a friend and his brother two seats for both games; we were in the lower bowl, they were in the upper. When I saw him again I asked him what he thought of the game, he said he stayed home, he had a cold. Thanks.

Enjoyed Philly; great games by all teams, an ECAC team won for the second year in a row which made us happy. We re at the Hilton Garden Inn downtown. Amazing that a city with the money problems Philly has is able to have three new sports venues near each other with reasonable parking charges, next to the arena; a far cry from paying $40 to park at a Patriots game and walk a mile to get in.

Wonder if the late Thursday game next year goes into overtime if they will keep the T running until the game gets over. If BC or BU is in the FF it will get some media attention; probably not if those two teams are not in.

Went to the Penrose diner in Philly after the final; there was a worker from the Wells Fargo sitting at the counter complaining about the fans at the "stupid Frozen Four", saying they were worse than Flyers fans. I wanted to ask her why, as this has always been the best behaved demographic of any sports event I have attended, but my wife said not to bother her.

 

[CLS]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

It's amazing how powerful negative branding is, perpetuated, in my view, by laziness of many in sports media. The oft-mentioned Santa Claus incident occurred at Franklin Field in the early 60's and is a very old story.

Philly is, in fact, popular with the NCAA. For example, the lacrosse FF(men's and women's) will be here in '15 and '16 after three other successful trips to Philly. The men's soccer FF was here last year and there have been many memorable basketball regionals and FF's in town.

It's encouraging that so many college hockey fans ignored the BS and had a great time last week.

Any negative stereotype I've had is of fans of Philadelphia pro sports teams, generally aimed at fans of other pro sports teams. Philadelphia is a great college sports (mainly basketball) city, and from my experience perfectly fine as a tourist destination. For the FF, there was no home pro team (in fact no home team at all), and all the fans were tourists.

...
Went to the Penrose diner in Philly after the final; there was a worker from the Wells Fargo sitting at the counter complaining about the fans at the "stupid Frozen Four", saying they were worse than Flyers fans. I wanted to ask her why, as this has always been the best behaved demographic of any sports event I have attended, but my wife said not to bother her.

Wonder if it was people complaining about the unavailability of alcohol. And the only thing I thought was dumb was the silliness over buying bottled water and their having to pour it in a cup. The first time I encountered that was in (I think) St. Paul, where they gave you the water and took the cap off, but this was the first time I've seen them not even letting you have the bottle.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

There was a survey the NCAA sent out to FF attendees. I don't know if this list is the cities they are contemplating for future FFs, but among them were Indianapolis, Omaha, LA, NYC, Boston, Orlando, Chicago, and a few others I could not remember...

Gotta believe that's a generic list of possible cities for multiple sports. For one thing, I doubt that Omaha has enough seats to meet our minimum requirements. For another, Indy, Orlando and San Antonio (also on the list) are NBA towns whose pro sports buildings may or may not pass muster. I've been surprised before, but I don't expect any of those four to land a FF anytime soon.

Went to the Penrose diner in Philly after the final; there was a worker from the Wells Fargo sitting at the counter complaining about the fans at the "stupid Frozen Four", saying they were worse than Flyers fans. I wanted to ask her why, as this has always been the best behaved demographic of any sports event I have attended, but my wife said not to bother her.

Just an educated guess, but here goes: The worker was one of the ushers in charge of clearing the building at the end of the evening. Fans of the championship team would stay on endlessly basking in the glow of victory if you let them. Many of the rest of us would also continue hang out, like the conventioneers we basically are. Good positive attitude; we're just not ready to go home yet.

Now look at it through the eyes of your average, neutral city usher: Couldn't care less about the event. Sure the extra money is nice; but on the whole, they'd rather just work the regular schedule and have this night off. Finally, it's quitting time. And look. A couple thousand (insert your favorite expletive here) still milling around arena, refusing to leave. If only those (repeat favorite expletive) would just get a clue and get out, the victimization would end.

So a couple of thousand people have to be asked, one by one, to leave. And it gets worse. They're all so d@#%&d polite, genuinely puzzled that there's a problem. Idiots!

I've seen this scenario play out in a several Frozen Four cities, so it's nothing unique to Philadelphia -- if that's indeed what occurred.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

There was a survey the NCAA sent out to FF attendees. I don't know if this list is the cities they are contemplating for future FFs, but among them were Indianapolis, Omaha, LA, NYC, Boston, Orlando, Chicago, and a few others I could not remember; none within driving distance from Boston. Hate when it is in Boston, I dislike the Fleet Center and only go there for the Beanpot, it is a cheaply built, cramped little place. The last time it was here though, was that exciting ending to the game between Maine and Denver, when Maine had almost the final two minutes of the game 6 on 3. I got a friend and his brother two seats for both games; we were in the lower bowl, they were in the upper. When I saw him again I asked him what he thought of the game, he said he stayed home, he had a cold. Thanks.

How is New York City not drivable from Boston? It is like a 4 hour drive...

 

[CLS]

Re: 2014 Frozen Four Info Thread

How is New York City not drivable from Boston? It is like a 4 hour drive...

Given that Boston was on his list of cities specifically mentioned, I think that the "none within driving distance from Boston" refers to "other[citie]s I could not remember". Last I checked, Boston is within driving distance of Boston, unless you're in one of those "you can't get there from here" situations in which all possible routes from here to there involve one way streets headed the wrong directions.

 

[BigAl]

Gotta believe that's a generic list of possible cities for multiple sports. For one thing, I doubt that Omaha has enough seats to meet our minimum requirements. For another, Indy, Orlando and San Antonio (also on the list) are NBA towns whose pro sports buildings may or may not pass muster. I've been surprised before, but I don't expect any of those four to land a FF.

I agree on Indy and most likely San Antonio although they have an AHL team. On Orlando I disagree for a couple reasons. The Amway Center is home to an ECHL team, obviously not impressive but there is a team playing there. The city is a huge tourist stop as they obviously have Disney World which would probably convince more people to take the flight. And the big one, what company does Disney own? ESPN. ESPN has some studios down there as well as the huge sports complex. If ESPN says to the NC$$ to have it in Orlando, it'll be in Orlando. I think the next round of bids, Orlando gets the nod because of that.