2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Yup, that's equivalent to inventing the internet. No difference whatsoever.

And Palin's an expert on Russian Foreign Policy.

I wonder if I'll get AIDS now?

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Is this USCHO or Fark?

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Is this USCHO or Fark?

If it was Fark at least the conversation would be entertaining.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

So, back to the point about players going sleeveless... I think I'm gonna watch for that too... That's just insane... With the modern cold weather gear available, there is NO REASON to not have something on...

 

[Rimbaud]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Yup, that's equivalent to inventing the internet. No difference whatsoever.

His actual quote: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet"

And he did, in fact, take initiative to help pass legislation that, for all intents and purposes, shaped and created the internet that we are using right now to have this meaningless discussion. He should have probably said that 'he and others took the initiative to pass legislation that helped shape and create the internet as we know it today" but he didn't because he's a politician and, therefore, pretty stupid.

 

[Slap Shot]

His actual quote: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet"

And he did, in fact, take initiative to help pass legislation that, for all intents and purposes, shaped and created the internet that we are using right now to have this meaningless discussion. He should have probably said that 'he and others took the initiative to pass legislation that helped shape and create the internet as we know it today" but he didn't because he's a politician and, therefore, pretty stupid.

He's just going to plug his ears and cover his eyes.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

The difference is Sarah Palin was largely correct, in that you can see Russia from Alaska.

It's important to remember that Palin was asked a question about foreign policy with Russia. It's not that she was wrong, it was that she answered the question like a kindergartner.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

In an effort to try to get this thread back on topic, what about the idea that has been floated around before and is in the news again about expanding the NFL playoffs to 8 teams/conference.

If that was the case this year, here would be the playoff matchups this week...

AFC:
#8 Baltimore @ #1 Denver
#7 Pittsburgh @ #2 New England
#6 San Diego @ #3 Cincinnati
#5 Kansas City @ #4 Indianapolis

NFC:
#8 Chicago @ #1 Seattle
#7 Arizona @ #2 Carolina
#6 New Orleans @ #3 Philadelphia
#5 San Francisco @ #4 Green Bay

Of course, if they were going to go this route, then they may as well seed by record, which would give us...

AFC would remain unchanged

NFC:
#8 Chicago @ #1 Seattle
#7 Green Bay @ #2 Carolina
#6 Arizona @ #3 San Francisco
#5 Philadelphia @ #4 New Orleans

Personally, I would enjoy an 8 team format. Over the past decade or so, having a bye has not been as important as it was before. If they decided to go to an 8 team format, then I would also like to see seeding based purely on record, while still keeping automatic births for division champions.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

In an effort to try to get this thread back on topic, what about the idea that has been floated around before and is in the news again about expanding the NFL playoffs to 8 teams/conference.

If that was the case this year, here would be the playoff matchups this week...

AFC:
#8 Baltimore @ #1 Denver
#7 Pittsburgh @ #2 New England
#6 San Diego @ #3 Cincinnati
#5 Kansas City @ #4 Indianapolis

NFC:
#8 Chicago @ #1 Seattle
#7 Arizona @ #2 Carolina
#6 New Orleans @ #3 Philadelphia
#5 San Francisco @ #4 Green Bay

Of course, if they were going to go this route, then they may as well seed by record, which would give us...

AFC would remain unchanged

NFC:
#8 Chicago @ #1 Seattle
#7 Green Bay @ #2 Carolina
#6 Arizona @ #3 San Francisco
#5 Philadelphia @ #4 New Orleans

Personally, I would enjoy an 8 team format. Over the past decade or so, having a bye has not been as important as it was before. If they decided to go to an 8 team format, then I would also like to see seeding based purely on record, while still keeping automatic births for division champions.

I disagree. One of the things that makes the NFL playoffs special compared to the NHL and NBA is how comparatively few teams make it in. While there's always a case that can be made that one or two of the teams that don't make it in each year are deserving, I think the playoff field is decidedly worse off if you added Chicago, Pittsburgh and Baltimore into the mix.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

I disagree. One of the things that makes the NFL playoffs special compared to the NHL and NBA is how comparatively few teams make it in. While there's always a case that can be made that one or two of the teams that don't make it in each year are deserving, I think the playoff field is decidedly worse off if you added Chicago, Pittsburgh and Baltimore into the mix.

You don't think Chicago, Pittsburgh, or Baltimore could give Seattle, New England, and Denver a game?

One of the reasons why I would like to see an expanded playoff is the increasing parity in the league. I would love to see the Steelers take on the Patriots this weekend. Arizona-Carolina would be a great matchup of defensive teams. While I think Seattle-Chicago would be a blowout, I think Denver-Baltimore would be a great game, especially given the cold-wintry conditions in Colorado this weekend.

I think the playoffs would be even better with 8 teams. No question.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

For that matter, I don't like the idea of changing the regular season to 18 games.

Obviously, an ideal league schedule is some form of a round robin. Outside of the fact that a team can't play itself, that format gives you perfect balance in terms of strength of schedule. It's perfectly clean, and the winner of such a season is the unquestioned best in the league. Of course, with 16 games for 32 teams, that's not possible. With the divisional setup, each team only sees 13 out of a possible 31 opponents.

One would think it's a good idea to have more games, then. Playing 18 games allows you to play 15 out of 31 teams, and in theory playing more teams helps balance the schedules. But I'm not so sure that it would.

One of the nice things about the NFL schedule is that it is as balanced as it can be. Each team's schedule is 4 games against teams that finished 1st in their division last year, 4 teams that finished 2nd, 4 teams that finished 3rd and 4 teams that finished last. Although its true that not all divisions are created equal, and there's a lot that can change in a team from one year to the next, there's a nice balance to the current scheduling system that I don't know how you'd be able to replicate in an 18 game setup.

Now, a 20 game regular season on the other hand... that has some possibilities.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

You don't think Chicago, Pittsburgh, or Baltimore could give Seattle, New England, and Denver a game?

Maybe they could. On any given Sunday, yadda yadda yadda.

But none of those teams are deserving of the chance. What's even the point of the regular season if there aren't just one or two but several mediocre, .500 levels teams that will make the postseason each season?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Maybe they could. On any given Sunday, yadda yadda yadda.

But none of those teams are deserving of the chance. What's even the point of the regular season if there aren't just one or two but several mediocre, .500 levels teams that will make the postseason each season?

Your argument was the same made when the NFL expanded the playoffs to 5 teams in each conference, and then to 6 teams in each conference. Back when they expanded nobody ever though that those teams had a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. Today...I think everyone pretty much concedes that anyone in the tournament can do damage.

Personally, I think the similarities would be identical to today's NCAA Tournament, where the "4 seeds" have proven their worth.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Your argument was the same made when the NFL expanded the playoffs to 5 teams in each conference, and then to 6 teams in each conference. Back when they expanded nobody ever though that those teams had a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. Today...I think everyone pretty much concedes that anyone in the tournament can do damage.

Personally, I think the similarities would be identical to today's NCAA Tournament, where the "4 seeds" have proven their worth.

But those 4 seeds in the NCAAs actually have to have a somewhat successful season to be selected as such. In the NFL, the 7/8 seeds in each conference are likely to be thoroughly mediocre 8-8 level clubs.

It's one thing to take the 16 best teams out of 60. Another thing when those 16 teams represent half of the field.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

But those 4 seeds actually have to have a somewhat successful season to be selected. In this case, the 7/8 seeds in each conference merely have to play 8-8 football.

It's one thing to take the 16 best teams out of 60. Another thing when those 16 teams represent half of the field.

You think more than half of the NCAA field has a legit chance to make the NCAA Tournament in any given season?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

You think more than half of the NCAA field has a legit chance to make the NCAA Tournament in any given season?

Everyone has a legit chance to make the Tourney. Shoot, everyone who gets into their conference tourney has a chance all the way into March.

But that's not the same as actually earning your bid. Of all the ones with a chance, only a little more 25% of the field makes it. That's a lot more palatable to me than adding extra spots for the benefit of 50th percentile teams.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Everyone has a legit chance to make the Tourney. Shoot, everyone who gets into their conference tourney has a chance all the way into March.

But that's not the same as actually earning your bid. Of all the ones with a chance, only a little more 25% of the field makes it. That's a lot more palatable to me than adding extra spots for the benefit of 50th percentile teams.

I guess I completely disagree. No way that every team has a legit chance to make the Tournament. If that was the case, then AIC (for example) is just the unluckiest team in the history of sport.

Perhaps we have quite different views on the definition of "legit."

So, I guess you would be in favor of reducing the teams to 8 then?

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

I guess I completely disagree. No way that every team has a legit chance to make the Tournament. If that was the case, then AIC (for example) is just the unluckiest team in the history of sport.

Yeah, that's not the point. The point is that everyone has a schedule with games on them. If you win enough of those games, you get into the tournament. But in the case of the NCAAs, you have to win a lot of your games. Autobids aside, you have to be better than roughly 75% of your competition to get in. That's significant, and that means that if you are a 4 seed in the NCAAs, you've fought and won your way into the tournament.

But imagine instead looking at the RPI or KRACH for this season of college hockey and say that you thought St Lawrence or RPI (ranked 29th and 30th, respectively) deserved to be in the postseason. Think of how ridiculous that is, and realize that that is roughly the same standards we would have for the NFL playoffs if we expanded the playoff field to 50% of the teams in the league.

So, I guess you would be in favor of reducing the teams to 8 then?

Not necessarily. If we have 8 divisions, and we're putting each division winner in the playoffs, that doesn't leave any room for wild card teams. Generally speaking, the wild card teams in a 12-team field are fairly deserving (of all teams to make it into the playoffs with mediocre records, they are usually champions of weak divisions).

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

Yeah, that's not the point. The point is that everyone has a schedule with games on them. If you win those games, you get into the tournament. But in the case of the NCAAs, you have to win a lot of your games. Autobids aside, you have to be better than roughly 75% of your competition to get in. That's significant, and that means that if you are a 4 seed in the NCAAs, you've fought and won your way into the tournament.

But imagine instead looking at the RPI or KRACH for this season of college hockey and say that you thought St Lawrence or RPI (ranked 29th and 30th, respectively) deserved to be in the postseason. Think of how ridiculous that is, and realize that that is roughly the same standards we would have for the NFL playoffs if we expanded the playoff field to 50% of the teams in the league.

The difference of course is that of the 32 NFL teams, all 32 have realistic playoff chances at the beginning of the season. My guess is that less than 32 NCAA Hockey teams have a realistic chance of making the NCAA Tournament. Hopes and dreams do not equal a "legit" chance in my opinion. But that's okay...we can agree to disagree.

Not necessarily. If we have 8 divisions, and we're putting each division winner in the playoffs, that doesn't leave any room for wild card teams. Generally speaking, the wild card teams in a 12-team field are fairly deserving (of all teams to make it into the playoffs with mediocre records, they are usually champions of weak divisions).

So, if there were 3 divisions in each conference you would be okay with 8 playoff teams?

Also, I don't think we can speak in those sort of generalities. My guess is that if we looked at the past 20 years (or whenever the playoffs went to 6 teams) we'd find that the "mediocre" teams (9-7 or worse?) that made the playoffs would be the wild card teams.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: 2013 NFL Season. Tebow on the Brady Bunch(en)? Goodell will to all men!

The difference of course is that of the 32 NFL teams, all 32 have realistic playoff chances at the beginning of the season.

Well, given your AIC comparison earlier... are the Browns, Lions, Dolphins and Bills just unlucky?

Everyone in every league in every sport has a chance at the beginning of their season. A new season is an open book with unwritten possibilities. But the point of the season is to find who's the best, and at the most basic level a playoff system that rewards 50th percentile teams is going to include teams that are simply not as deserving as the 66th or 75th percentile teams.

I think it's fair to wonder why, other than entertainment value, we would bother to reward 50th percentile teams. At least when that happens in the World Cup, European Soccer championships or the Champions League (1/2 of the teams advancing from group stages to knockout rounds), it's at a group stage where all the teams have had to win something to get there in the first place.

Also, I don't think we can speak in those sort of generalities. My guess is that if we looked at the past 20 years (or whenever the playoffs went to 6 teams) we'd find that the "mediocre" teams (9-7 or worse?) that made the playoffs would be the wild card teams.

I'm looking into this right now actually. The current playoffs started following the 1990 season, so including this year there's 24 years of regular seasons to dissect (worth keeping in mind, half of that time we had 6 divisions and the league slowly built from 28 to 32 teams over that span).

I think 9-7 or worse being the measuring stick for mediocrity is fair, and I'd also look at teams with negative point differentials. In either case, I don't think there's any point in arguing that adding 7/8 seeds to each conference would dramatically increase the number of mediocre teams (by either metric). In fact, I'm still in the early 90s and I've already seen a 6-10 team that would've snuck in as an 8 seed.