2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

[CLUBTEAMS]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

I thought this was a great event. Burlington is a fun little city. The Chicago team was the best u19team, very talented.

I was expecting the players on the USA U18 team to be head and shoulders above everyone else. Clearly some have size, hockey sense and a skill set. Some of them I couldn't believe the made that team. Their stats are not very impressive either. Not all of them were here but there were alot of them.
The JWHL teams didn't do very well, a 9-13-6 record (counting OT wins/loss as ties). I have been critical of this type of hockey before and now even more so. Talked with many parents from the Mass teams and they laugh at that concept. The Mass concept is similiar to the Minny. Play for your HS and fall elite team. They play Prep hockey and club league. Cost is affordable and travel is reasonable.
I did see many nice teams with actual teamwork. Some folks were saying the scout numbers were down? Anyone from previous years have any insight into this?
Good bye summer & Happy Hockey season!

No thanks- Illinois, Michigan, New York's players do not need to leave their homes to further their hockey career. They have great club teams in their area's and if they want to attend a prep school they can attend one in their home state.
One thing in life, we as parents can never get back, is Time. Time spent with our children. Sending your kid to the Mass Prep schools may work for them (Mass) but there really is no need for the mentioned states.

 

[rangersrule]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

You are right about one thing, not all the members of the USA U-18 team attended the NAHA Tournament. The ones that did play in the tournament might not have had the best stats but that certainly doesn't mean that they didn't belong on the U-18 team! At some point they must have impressed the USA coaches enough during the entire selection process to make the team. Every girl that was a '96, '97, or '98 birth year had every opportunity at National Camp to earn the right to play in the Camp All Star game and then earn the right from playing well in that All-Star Game to advance to the Festival in Lake Placid. To say that you couldn't believe some of them were chosen to be on that team based on a 3 day period watching them at this tournament isn't fair at all. And as I said, not all the players were there. At least 8 of them (3 Shattuck, 1 Assabet, 4 MN. High School) were not.

I thought this was a great event. Burlington is a fun little city. The Chicago team was the best u19team, very talented.

I was expecting the players on the USA U18 team to be head and shoulders above everyone else. Clearly some have size, hockey sense and a skill set. Some of them I couldn't believe the made that team. Their stats are not very impressive either. Not all of them were here but there were alot of them.
The JWHL teams didn't do very well, a 9-13-6 record (counting OT wins/loss as ties). I have been critical of this type of hockey before and now even more so. Talked with many parents from the Mass teams and they laugh at that concept. The Mass concept is similiar to the Minny. Play for your HS and fall elite team. They play Prep hockey and club league. Cost is affordable and travel is reasonable.
I did see many nice teams with actual teamwork. Some folks were saying the scout numbers were down? Anyone from previous years have any insight into this?
Good bye summer & Happy Hockey season!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

The JWHL teams didn't do very well, a 9-13-6 record (counting OT wins/loss as ties). I have been critical of this type of hockey before and now even more so. Talked with many parents from the Mass teams and they laugh at that concept. The Mass concept is similiar to the Minny. Play for your HS and fall elite team. They play Prep hockey and club league. Cost is affordable and travel is reasonable.

Interesting perspective. Do not necessarily agree. As other posters indicated, depends on many variables, including availability of a viable program in your area, and your objective.

Teams like NAHA, SSM and other Hockey Focussed Programs work a lot on development of hockey skills and prepping kids for college. You may not get that similar prep at a prep school as you only play hockey for a few months. Prep schools are however on average better in prepping kids for the academic rigors of college.

The likes of NAHA and SSM have a very high placement rate of players heading to college.

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

No thanks- Illinois, Michigan, New York's players do not need to leave their homes to further their hockey career. They have great club teams in their area's and if they want to attend a prep school they can attend one in their home state.
One thing in life, we as parents can never get back, is Time. Time spent with our children. Sending your kid to the Mass Prep schools may work for them (Mass) but there really is no need for the mentioned states.

Illinois, sure...as long as you live in the greater Chicago area, or you could be 3+ hours away from your practices.

Michigan, sure...but you better not live in the U.P. or in some of the other places outside of Detroit.

New York, okay...but make sure you live near Buffalo and don't live up near Plattsburgh or Lake Placid or down toward NYC.

Again, you may live in those states and may have no reason to send your kid somewhere to play hockey...but every other family is not you and does not have your same circumstances. Some families encourage their kids to get away from home and spread their wings (and some kids are ready to do it younger than others). Doesn't make someone a better or worse parent, just means their situation may not be what yours is. I really don't think you're in any position to judge a decision that someone else makes about their kids, their hockey career, and the things that may make their child or their family happy.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

No thanks- Illinois, Michigan, New York's players do not need to leave their homes to further their hockey career. They have great club teams in their area's and if they want to attend a prep school they can attend one in their home state.
One thing in life, we as parents can never get back, is Time. Time spent with our children. Sending your kid to the Mass Prep schools may work for them (Mass) but there really is no need for the mentioned states.

As a note, MOST (75% plus) of the MA/New England kids who go to NE prep schools are boarders even though their parents may live relatively close. That is how most of the preps (Westminster, Choate, Lawrence Academy, Cushing, etc.) work - way more boarding spots than day student spots. Nobles, Rivers, and Greenwich Academy are the major exceptions (day schools only) for girls, and even Nobles has a small boarding population that is used specifically to seed their athletic teams. So most of these kids ARE leaving home for school/hockey, but not traveling vast distances.

Also, can't speak to Illinois or Michigan, but any NY kids not from Buffalo/Rochester that go on to play college hockey in either D1 or D3 typically go through one of the NE prep schools (which includes CT) or a JWHL team. Few exceptions. And the NE prep schools do draw the occasional kids from Illinois (not so much Michigan).

 

[Call It]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

OnMAA: "The likes of NAHA and SSM have a very high placement rate of players heading to college."

As they should for $40,000+ a year.

 

[Call It]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

You are right about one thing, not all the members of the USA U-18 team attended the NAHA Tournament. The ones that did play in the tournament might not have had the best stats but that certainly doesn't mean that they didn't belong on the U-18 team! At some point they must have impressed the USA coaches enough during the entire selection process to make the team. Every girl that was a '96, '97, or '98 birth year had every opportunity at National Camp to earn the right to play in the Camp All Star game and then earn the right from playing well in that All-Star Game to advance to the Festival in Lake Placid. To say that you couldn't believe some of them were chosen to be on that team based on a 3 day period watching them at this tournament isn't fair at all. And as I said, not all the players were there. At least 8 of them (3 Shattuck, 1 Assabet, 4 MN. High School) were not.

IDK about the selection of players to National Camp, often folks say there is bias and politics involved. I think the Assabet Team had highest concentration of National Camp selections as well as USA U18 players and they didn't perform that great. Wouldn't one think that a whole line of USA U18 players should be dominating against players who were not selected to camp? Perhaps they just went through the cones better in the Spring than others, however to your point Shinning at the right time pays dividends.

When top Boys go to Tournaments like this, they dominate. Justin Kloos comes to mind. Some of the U18 Players had a point or two over 6 games! Kasidy Anderson 1997 (who IDK) lead the NAHA Labor Day with 12pts and wasn't invited to the top 30 in August. Seems peculiar to me. Clearly the USA u18 players are good players, I'm just saying to those players that were not selected to anything USA Hockey, don't give up. You are not that far behind this current crowd.

 

[puckfollower4]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

IDK about the selection of players to National Camp, often folks say there is bias and politics involved. I think the Assabet Team had highest concentration of National Camp selections as well as USA U18 players and they didn't perform that great. Wouldn't one think that a whole line of USA U18 players should be dominating against players who were not selected to camp? Perhaps they just went through the cones better in the Spring than others, however to your point Shinning at the right time pays dividends.

When top Boys go to Tournaments like this, they dominate. Justin Kloos comes to mind. Some of the U18 Players had a point or two over 6 games! Kasidy Anderson 1997 (who IDK) lead the NAHA Labor Day with 12pts and wasn't invited to the top 30 in August. Seems peculiar to me. Clearly the USA u18 players are good players, I'm just saying to those players that were not selected to anything USA Hockey, don't give up. You are not that far behind this current crowd.

If you notice on the stats they haven't recorded all games for most. They all played 6 games and 2 teams played 7 but some girls only have stats for 4 or 5 games....so stats don't mean a lot when they aren't completely accurate!

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

At Beantown 6 of the top players for Assabet played with other teams. HockeyEast33 is right about the defense. Assabet will strong up front and could compete. NAHA comes down to scheduling a lot of times.

Wasn't there, but the defense comments appear to hold up - 4 goals against in the Bison and Whitecaps game and 2 against to a middlin' Bluewater team is a very un-Assabet like performance (the other teams they played appear to be weaker). Gonna be an interesting year if Assabet has to outscore teams to win games - can't remember the last time Whistleboy )) coached a team like that...think he knows how? Run and gun seems to give him heartburn....and saw they cut the final roster on the website last night down to 5 D, so not sure it's going to get better defensively...should be an interesting season.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

IDK about the selection of players to National Camp, often folks say there is bias and politics involved. I think the Assabet Team had highest concentration of National Camp selections as well as USA U18 players and they didn't perform that great. Wouldn't one think that a whole line of USA U18 players should be dominating against players who were not selected to camp? Perhaps they just went through the cones better in the Spring than others, however to your point Shinning at the right time pays dividends.

When top Boys go to Tournaments like this, they dominate. Justin Kloos comes to mind. Some of the U18 Players had a point or two over 6 games! Kasidy Anderson 1997 (who IDK) lead the NAHA Labor Day with 12pts and wasn't invited to the top 30 in August. Seems peculiar to me. Clearly the USA u18 players are good players, I'm just saying to those players that were not selected to anything USA Hockey, don't give up. You are not that far behind this current crowd.

As noted, stats really only include for sure the round robin games and then are sporadic after that. The Seals beat up on some bottom half of the tourney teams in the round robin which is where many of the team's stats came from, but it appears Ms. Anderson (who I have never seen play) played well in their games against the Shamrocks and Mission as well since she scored all of their goals. She didn't make the NDC highest level all star game, but it looks like she'll have another shot at the U18 team (97?) next year, so maybe then. Certainly the coaches notice that top scorer in this tournament.

More generally, not all kids on the U18 team are goal scorers. Some are playmakers, some are defensive players. Also, how many points you get is largely determined by who you play in the round robin and there are some wildly varying strength of schedules. I wouldn't necessarily expect to see the U-18 players aligned 1-18 on the scoring list at the NAHA tournament.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

I really don't think you're in any position to judge a decision that someone else makes about their kids, their hockey career, and the things that may make their child or their family happy.

Great line to remind ourselves to take a breath or two before commenting on decisions of others.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

OnMAA: "The likes of NAHA and SSM have a very high placement rate of players heading to college."

As they should for $40,000+ a year.

Well for those of us that live in Minnesota (you), Ontario (myself), Michigan, Quebec or Mass/CT, there are many good club options available within a reasonable distance, that makes it viable to have a good development program close to home and keep cost to a reasonable level.

However, for many that live in the remoter parts of those states or in other states with a much lower concentration of top level hockey, it often becomes a more viable option to choose a dedicated school, rather than routinely travelling far away just to play high level Club hockey. The good news is that for those families there are many options, varying from Prep Schools to dedicated hockey programs like SSM, NAHA, OHA, Warner, Notre Dame and NSA just to name a few.

Key is to determine your objectives and then choose a program to match. Many good female players in less dense hockey population centers play boys until a certain age, and are then faced with a decision on what is next at about age 13/14.

 

[Call It]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

Well for those of us that live in Minnesota (you), Ontario (myself), Michigan, Quebec or Mass/CT, there are many good club options available within a reasonable distance, that makes it viable to have a good development program close to home and keep cost to a reasonable level.

However, for many that live in the remoter parts of those states or in other states with a much lower concentration of top level hockey, it often becomes a more viable option to choose a dedicated school, rather than routinely travelling far away just to play high level Club hockey. The good news is that for those families there are many options, varying from Prep Schools to dedicated hockey programs like SSM, NAHA, OHA, Warner, Notre Dame and NSA just to name a few.

Key is to determine your objectives and then choose a program to match. Many good female players in less dense hockey population centers play boys until a certain age, and are then faced with a decision on what is next at about age 13/14.

Good points. I know that I am blessed to live in a great hockey area of the world. I am simply giving another point of view to the Money Grab adults hockey league for u19 Girls. If I lived outside of an area with a high level of hockey, this is what I would do with my daughter if she asked to.

1. Prep school, best schooling in the country. They make it affordable, some pay $0 to 5,000. If your daughter is not a gifted student than the NAHA teams of the world are not your answer. (disclaimer: NAHA does place kids in top schools) The school also allows for the kids to still belong to a community, not just 20 girl hockey players.

2. Club Team, offers you the exposure. I believe they are around $2,000. Also the competition, like NAHA Tournament where the club teams were better. We even have this concept with the MN Icecats or Northern Starzz and the fall elite league. The club teams have great coaches.

$7k vs 40k? Shoot, you could pay for College straight up if you picked the first number.

Folks will argue the HS/ Prep vs JWHL teams back and forth. You need to very very very good to play for free at those self proclaimed Elite Teams for cheap/ free. Other wise you'll need rich parents. If you are not rich, the above might be your answer. The parents of the JWHL tell me how much better their league is than HS in MN. They are trying to justify their expense/ ego. BS on that. I saw those teams last weekend, I wouldn't spend a nickel on them. One coach from the JWHL looked like a member of Motley Crue, not very professional either.

Hopefully this will help parents be more informed about the choices for their daughter. The fact of the matter, D1 & D3 players come from many places in the US and Canada. There is no magic answer. Education, fun, cost & hockey all play into the formula.

What ever your family does is the right answer, unless of course you go broke!

 

[rangersrule]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

Interesting observations. You mention NAHA in your comments and in past posts you said you live in Minnesota. What is your opinion of SSM? This is a Prep School that actually has a hockey season schedule just like a AAA Club Team. They play from the first week of September through the National Tournament in April. Also within their schedule they play approximately 15 + games against the Minnesota Elite League Teams--the very best Minnesota high school players. Very different academically than NAHA also in that the students are actually there the entire school year - like the prep schools out east. Most importantly the kids get a great education as well. The Girls Prep Coach -Gordon Stafford, sends about 90% of his graduates on to play D-1 hockey. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

Good points. I know that I am blessed to live in a great hockey area of the world. I am simply giving another point of view to the Money Grab adults hockey league for u19 Girls. If I lived outside of an area with a high level of hockey, this is what I would do with my daughter if she asked to.

1. Prep school, best schooling in the country. They make it affordable, some pay $0 to 5,000. If your daughter is not a gifted student than the NAHA teams of the world are not your answer. (disclaimer: NAHA does place kids in top schools) The school also allows for the kids to still belong to a community, not just 20 girl hockey players.

2. Club Team, offers you the exposure. I believe they are around $2,000. Also the competition, like NAHA Tournament where the club teams were better. We even have this concept with the MN Icecats or Northern Starzz and the fall elite league. The club teams have great coaches.

$7k vs 40k? Shoot, you could pay for College straight up if you picked the first number.

Folks will argue the HS/ Prep vs JWHL teams back and forth. You need to very very very good to play for free at those self proclaimed Elite Teams for cheap/ free. Other wise you'll need rich parents. If you are not rich, the above might be your answer. The parents of the JWHL tell me how much better their league is than HS in MN. They are trying to justify their expense/ ego. BS on that. I saw those teams last weekend, I wouldn't spend a nickel on them. One coach from the JWHL looked like a member of Motley Crue, not very professional either.

Hopefully this will help parents be more informed about the choices for their daughter. The fact of the matter, D1 & D3 players come from many places in the US and Canada. There is no magic answer. Education, fun, cost & hockey all play into the formula.

What ever your family does is the right answer, unless of course you go broke!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

2. Club Team, offers you the exposure. I believe they are around $2,000.

Club cost pricing can vary greatly, and often ONLY includes the basic hockey cost (Ice, Refs, Tourney fees), and does not include the cost of travel, hotels etc. The latter is normally built in the cost of the program for the Hockey schools. One of the other main variables is cost of the coaching staff, low on some club teams, high on others.

In the PW (Ontario) typical hockey cost element varies from about $4000 to $8000 per player. There is often a fund raising element as well. Your typical travel budget on top of that can vary from 2000 to well over 5 grand. Conventional wisdom is 10-12 grand out of pocket to play on a PW team.

 

[Call It]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

Interesting observations. You mention NAHA in your comments and in past posts you said you live in Minnesota. What is your opinion of SSM? This is a Prep School that actually has a hockey season schedule just like a AAA Club Team. They play from the first week of September through the National Tournament in April. Also within their schedule they play approximately 15 + games against the Minnesota Elite League Teams--the very best Minnesota high school players. Very different academically than NAHA also in that the students are actually there the entire school year - like the prep schools out east. Most importantly the kids get a great education as well. The Girls Prep Coach -Gordon Stafford, sends about 90% of his graduates on to play D-1 hockey. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me.

Great School. Coach Stafford is a great coach. Coach Koch pretty much saved the girls program. This offers hockey & community but not cost (unless you are very very good). They play a lot at home. SSM doesn't get many Minny girls, day students mostly. Minny girls don't have to leave their HS team like many here claim have to. The #s don't lie, MN puts more girls into College Hockey than anyone. Would the Rogers girl be better served by leaving Hopkins to go to SSM or back to NAHA? No, she made the USA U18 out of the HS and has a full boat to U of Minny. Pretty good return on investment. Just looked up her stats, 1 goal in 5 games, What gives? Her +/- must be impressive

To get a background of where my .02 comes from. I am a hockey Dad of 2, a older son and a daughter. My wife and I make $95k/ year. We love our community in Minnesota! Thus if you are making $350k/ year you might have a different perspective. My .02 are neither right or wrong, just food for thought.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

The #s don't lie, MN puts more girls into College Hockey than anyone.

That is not quite true. Ontario leads that charge, both for D1 and overall. Ontario sends 40-55 kids a year to D1, 30+ kids a year to D3 and well over hundred kids each year to CIS schools. (CIS is below D1, but on average better than D3). Have the stats going back to 2005 to back that up. Over that 9 year time span, there was only one season when Minnesota had more D1 recruits than Ontario.

 

[Hockeydad4two]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

That is not quite true. Ontario leads that charge, both for D1 and overall. Ontario sends 40-55 kids a year to D1, 30+ kids a year to D3 and well over hundred kids each year to CIS schools. (CIS is below D1, but on average better than D3). Have the stats going back to 2005 to back that up. Over that 9 year time span, there was only one season when Minnesota had more D1 recruits than Ontario.

I'm curious to know what the percentage of total girls registered to play in both Ontario and Minn. go on to play D1. Then, if you've got the stats, compare that to other states and provinces.

My curiosity lies in seeing if Ontario/Minn send so many because they have the largest amount of registered girls or is it something else.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

I'm curious to know what the percentage of total girls registered to play in both Ontario and Minn. go on to play D1. Then, if you've got the stats, compare that to other states and provinces.

My curiosity lies in seeing if Ontario/Minn send so many because they have the largest amount of registered girls or is it something else.

Don't have the actual stats, but you are on the money with the grass roots numbers being the driver for Ontario. There are over 40,000 registered female hockey players in the OWHA (= Ontario). Well over 30,000 of those are in the minor age bracket. Would not be surprised if Minnesota has the highest number of female hockey registrants in the USA.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: 2013 NAHA Labor Day Tourney

That is not quite true. Ontario leads that charge, both for D1 and overall. Ontario sends 40-55 kids a year to D1, 30+ kids a year to D3 and well over hundred kids each year to CIS schools. (CIS is below D1, but on average better than D3). Have the stats going back to 2005 to back that up. Over that 9 year time span, there was only one season when Minnesota had more D1 recruits than Ontario.

To back this up with numbers, 06-07 recruit year only one Minnesota's number was higher than Ontario.



Year --- Total ------- USA ------- Canada ---- Internatl. --- Ontario --- Minnesota
======================================================================
05-06 --- 211 ... 129 USA (61%) ... 79 CAN (37%) .... 3 Int ( 1.5%) ---- 36 ---- 27
06-07 --- 201 ... 128 USA (64%) ... 62 CAN (31%) .... 9 Int ( 5%) ----- 29 ---- 40 >> Only year Minnesota had more
07-08 --- 164 ..... 95 USA (58%) ... 65 CAN (40%) .... 4 Int (2%) ---- 29 ---- 28
08-09 --- 208 .... 119 USA (57%) ... 83 CAN (40%) .... 6 INt (3%) ---- 38 ---- 37
09-10 --- 214 .... 120 USA (56%) ... 87 CAN (40%) .... 7 INT (3%) ---- 52 ---- 32
10-11 --- 209 .... 115 USA (55%) ... 90 CAN (43%) .... 4 INt (2%) ---- 57 ---- 39
11-12 --- 220 .... 132 USA (60%) ... 75 CAN (34%) ... 13 INt (6%) ---- 37 ---- 27
12-13 --- 234 .... 134 USA (57%) ... 89 CAN (38%) ... 11 Int (5%) ---- 52 ---- 33